Hall of Fame 2013 Selections: Warren Sapp and Cris Carter Both Go In Along With Larry Allen, Johnathan Ogden, and Bill Parcells
The new 2013 Hall of Fame class was just announced. There were four clear Hall of Fame choices who were in their first year of eligibility in this year’s group of fifteen finalists. Three of them made it: Larry Allen, Warren Sapp, and Johnathan Ogden. The fourth, Michael Strahan, did not get selected, and will likely wait until next year when the Super Bowl is in New York.
Cris Carter got into one of those spots, finally breaking a logjam at wide receiver and being selected ahead of Andre Reed and Tim Brown. Bill Parcells got the other spot, as Parcells had previously been up for nomination as a finalist back in 2002, before returning to coaching, and just got back on the ballot last year. Parcells was definitely getting in at some point, and the only question was which class and which players would he supplant.
Meanwhile, Curley Culp and Dave Robinson both got in as senior candidates.
[photo via USA Today Sports Images]
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February 2nd, 2013 at 6:13 PM
pretty good class, although I am very much anti-Cris Carter. Not as a hall of famer, but as a human.
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:15 PM
Re-post:
Disappointed Carter got in (prefer an exclusive HOF). Sapp and Ogden are deserving. Allen is an all-time great.
A joke Parcells didn’t get in on the first ballot. Who says only baseball writers are vindictive bitches?
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:16 PM
Some buddies and I were bullshitting about this, among active NFL player who are 1st ballot HOFers if everyone’s careers ended today. I had Brady, Manning, Moss, Gonzalez, Lewis, and Woodson.
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:19 PM
Reed, Freeney, Peppers, Bailey. Maybe more, but those immediately come to mind
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:19 PM
Probably Saturday too
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:20 PM
Hutchinson, Faneca
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:21 PM
IMO Vinatieri too
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:22 PM
Allen at his best was an absolute monster. shame his prime came right when the Cowboys started to go to shit.
kind of surprised that Strahan and Bettis didn’t get in.
those would be the most likely candidates. who else would there be? maybe Reed and Urlacher?
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:23 PM
1st ballot? No. Probably none of them except for Bailey. No chance for Freeney or Peppers. Possibly Reed. Saturday, no. Faneca, no. Hutchinson, no.
Yes to everyone Dawgfather mentioned.
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:24 PM
LMAO. 1st ballot? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh…no chance. None.
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:25 PM
would DeMarcus Ware’s resume be strong enough as of right now to be a first ballot? Ronde Barber?
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:26 PM
Skimmed over the first ballot caveat. Reed >>> Woodson though. I’ll go Reed, Bailey definitely, I think Freeney is deserving too but don’t necessarily expect it to happen
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:26 PM
just double checked and Ware is a definite no.
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:26 PM
Ware isn’t even a HOFer, much less a 1st ballot gut. Ronde is borderline, but zero chance at 1st timer.
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:27 PM
No to Ware first ballot. Probably no to Barber as well
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:32 PM
Reed and Bailey are probably 1st ballot worthy. Not sure anyone else playing is there if careers ended today.
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:34 PM
Joe flacco
/queefer
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:34 PM
I have a friend that tried to argue Devin Hester was HOF worthy. I’m thinking about ending out friendship.
/he’s a big Miami fan
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:35 PM
P. Manning, Brady, Lewis, Reed, Gonzalez, Palomalu,
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:35 PM
Just put in Charles Haley. I want to hear that speech.
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:35 PM
Some other guys not mentioned above that people brought up to which I decided were not quite 1st ballot HOFers were Brees, Roethlisberger, Witten, Polamalu, Cal Johnson, Andre Johnson, Fitz, and AP. Most of these guys just need a few more years of work.
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:37 PM
Drew Brees gets in first ballot over my dead body
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:37 PM
I think Ronde gets in eventually. 15 years. Most consecutive starts by a CB in history. Super Bowl winner. Only player ever with 25+ sacks and 40+ picks.
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:37 PM
Calvin’s only been in the league six years. Breathe, brother, breathe.
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:39 PM
Oh and someone brought up London Fletcher…
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:42 PM
Probably all on track to get in. Don’t see any on the 1st ballot quite yet though.
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:46 PM
HOF worthy if they retired today (first ballot such a nebulous distinction):
Brady, Manning, Moss, Gonzalez, Lewis, Woodson, Bailey, Reed, Saturday, Hutchinson, Faneca, Vinatieri, Urlacher, Barber, Hampton
Forgot some I’m sure
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:48 PM
Freeney, Peppers…duh
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:50 PM
Brady, P. Manning, Drew Brees, Ray Lewis, Tony Gonzalez, Randy Moss, Bailey are definite 1st ballot guys.
Hutchinson, E. Manning, Roethlisberger, Ed Reed, Freeney, Barber, Urlacher, Vinatieri, Saturday, and Peppers are HOF’s IMO but not first ballot ones.
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:52 PM
Even though I absolutely hate Brees, he has buffaloed enough clowns out there with his epic garbage time stat accumulation to make him a HOFer (sigh). Not 1st ballot though.
February 2nd, 2013 at 6:56 PM
Ray Guy, greatest punter in NFL history, belongs in the Hall.
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:03 PM
Charles Haley belongs in the Hall of Fame.
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:04 PM
I’d also argue for Reggie Wayne belonging in the Hall (not first ballot) but apparently I’m the only one.
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:04 PM
peanut tillman. yes, i’m serious. first ballot? no, but deserving of eventual? just check his stats
and yes on hester. best ever at what they do (not including long snappers and holders) get in, especially with a game-changing impact
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:04 PM
There are a bunch of players who have been left out the past 2 years who deserved to make it before Curtis Martin.
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:05 PM
it amazes me that humans who think brees is better than reed exist
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:06 PM
senior candidates? seems like a different name for the bullshit veterans committee in baseball
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:08 PM
Joe namath, not a hall of famer
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:08 PM
the explosion of the passing game in the past decade is going to wreak havoc on voters trying to sort through all the quarterbacks, wide receivers, and defensive backs to see who gets in.
then they’ll end up just voting for some guy who played backup linebacker for the Steelers in the 70′s.
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:09 PM
Don’t get the intense hatred for Brees by some commenters. If Aikman and Namath are HOFers, then Brees most definitely is as well. And even if those two weren’t (which they shouldn’t be), he still is.
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:10 PM
tillman, no. homeless mans ronde barber. good in cover 2, which lead to lots of turnovers. but not good enough in coverage
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:11 PM
John Lynch, anyone?
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:12 PM
When do the bozos calling for Pt Tilman to get in make their voices heard?
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:12 PM
payton is the true star of the saints. chargers decided brees couldnt play and drafted rivers. most overrated qb in a while. i contend many qbs wouldve torn in it up in the same situation
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:14 PM
lynch, yes
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:15 PM
But you can say that about a lot of situations and a lot of QBs.
I can assure you that if Aaron Brooks had played under Payton, NOBODY would be arguing that Brooks belongs in the HOF.
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:15 PM
RGIII Rookie of the Year
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:17 PM
not sure about a system causing turnovers trojans…tillman has a ton of forced fumbles too. i believe he is the only dude ever with 30 Int and 30 ff
/hi nada
a.p. i get the namath argument. however the impact he had on making the sport uber popular after the merger is huge. he gets in sort of like a marvin miller would get in for baseball. impact on game
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:17 PM
luck roy
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:19 PM
Chris Culliver agrees that Aikman shouldn’t get up in the HOF.
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:19 PM
It’s already been announced. RGIII won it.
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:19 PM
i love tillman for the fumbles. but he is only ok in coverage
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:20 PM
The owners will never let Miller into the HOF.
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:20 PM
I see Eric Hipple got snubbed again…
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:20 PM
hadnt heard that franklin. good for him
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:22 PM
tillman in 10 years
33 int, 39 ff, 8 pick six, 112 passes defended
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:24 PM
i like luck for roy simply because of the diff he made almost alone
rg3 at least had the rb
but damn, wilson was nails too
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:26 PM
this was partially A.J. Smith being a douche and wanting “his guy” out there, and partially the Chargers being worried about that shoulder injury he had at the end of 2005. it was not specifically tied to Brees’ play (he had two decent seasons leading up to that point).
side note – Sapp getting in and Lynch being brought up reminded me, when is Derrick Brooks’ first year on the ballot?
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:26 PM
only real knock on rg3 was time missed. luck was incredible too
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:28 PM
Yeah, they announced it on the NFL Network……Luke Kuchely Defensive Rookie of the Year
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:29 PM
drafting of rivers pre-dated the injury
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:31 PM
never said it didn’t.
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:31 PM
took a qb top five with brees on the roster. thats a damning indictment
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:33 PM
When does Aundray Bruce get into the HOF?
/ No. 1 Busts HOF, than it
// Inaugural class: JaCarcass, Couch, Ki-Jana, Courtney Brown, Angelo Bertelli/Frank Dancewicz*
* Obgliatory Notre Dame representative
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:33 PM
Luck had Reggie Wayne for an entire season, while RGIII was missing his best receiver for half the season. Morris was more a product of Griffin’s effectiveness than anything else.
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:34 PM
of A.J. Smith? agree completely.
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:35 PM
Luck had Reggie Wayne for an entire season, while RGIII was missing his best receiver for half the season. Morris was more a product of Griffin’s effectiveness than anything else.
agree that wilson should have gotten it
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:35 PM
I woulda voted Luck, Russell, then RG3. Is it the turnover differential that did it for people? I am confused. How do you take a 2 win team to 11 wins and not get the ROY?
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:36 PM
// Inaugural class: JaCarcass, Couch, Ki-Jana, Courtney Brown, Angelo Bertelli/Frank Dancewicz*
leaf and tony mandarich are charter members or no one is
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:36 PM
Hilarious:
The old Boston Yanks had the No. overall pick in the NFL draft two out of three years (1944, 1946) and both times drafted a Notre QB who was out of the league within three seasons.
The Yanks folded in 1948.
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:36 PM
id have gone luck griffin kalil
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:37 PM
Should have specified: No. 1 overall.
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:39 PM
When you have another candidate who leads his team on a 7 game winning streak to 10 wins AND the division championship.
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:39 PM
Someday Schottenheimer and Brees will be in the HOF, and Rivers, Norv Turner and A.J. Wilson will not.
Justice of the poetic sort.
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:39 PM
And by A.J. Wilson I of course meant A.J. Smith.
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:40 PM
Otis, don’t forget that Luck had a pretty poor defense and a bad O-line. Also doesn’t have anyone that resembles a competent RB. Still improved his team 9 wins from the prior year.
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:44 PM
nada, you just said norv turner and hof in the same sentence. i dont care about context. you ought to be ashamed. only acceptable if theres a little known offensive coordinator hof
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:44 PM
Here we go with the division championship argument again… Horrors of Trout v Mig debate are coming back to mind.
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:46 PM
well, i know it;s a different argument, but who would you rather have on your team? luck or wilson
i assumer rg3 is toxic due to wrecked knee mystery
luck is the old school, wilson new
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:47 PM
Odds on Lefty tanking it tomorrow so he doesn’t have to pay all them taxes on that hefty Phoenix purse?
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:48 PM
o luck over wilson is an absolute no brainer
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:48 PM
dawgfather, check 57 for my luck statement. for the other one i was just fucking with darrell
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:48 PM
saw phils shot on 16. as shitty as that course is, its an entertaining watch
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:49 PM
I’m not in the business of minimizing the achievement of winning a division simply to make an argument for my favorite player to win an award. But even if you want to invest in that folly, Griffin will come out ahead on a numbers or impact argument.
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:50 PM
How about just making it the “Offensive HOF”? Then we can add Norv, Jeff George, Ryan Leaf, Carl Smith, Jerry Glanville …
/ “Offensive” in the other meaning of the word
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:50 PM
bc wilson is closer to a flash in the pan, trojans, or more likely to get hurt with the running? or luck is 6-4 and wilson 5-10?
/don’t say yes
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:55 PM
Wilson was at a point early in the season when rumblings for Flynn were beginning. The other 2 were consistent the entire season.
February 2nd, 2013 at 8:06 PM
On Luck: the fundamentals are already so advanced. The throwing mechanics are excellent, strong arm, very accurate down the field. The footwork is terrific, whether it be on dropbacks, reseting thru his progression, sliding in the pocket. He looks like a ten yr pro in that regard. The size and athleticism are prototypical. Has the almost Roethlisberger ability to shake off pass rushers. Should stay healthy. He’s shown so much football aptitude that he’s had play calling/audibling freedom well beyond what’s typical of young qbs at the Colts and Stanford. Head is on straight, teammates and coaches seem to revere him. My main knock on Luck is his tendency to force some plays, but I think a lot of that has to do with Colts mediocre personnel and Arians design to push for big plays
I like Wilson a lot too. Many of the compliments I gave Luck can be apply to Wilson to a lesser degree, and he does a good job of avoiding hits. I think he will have problems earlier too, once his legs diminish and he can’t extend plays as well
February 2nd, 2013 at 8:06 PM
can be applied to Wilson*
February 2nd, 2013 at 8:06 PM
What about Steve Tasker for the Hall of Fame? In my opinion, the greatest special team player of all time.
February 2nd, 2013 at 8:11 PM
Every GM in the league would take Luck over both RGII & Wilson. He is just an easier projection. Right now Luck looks like he will be some kind of Peyton Manning & Ben Roethlisberger hybrid. You should be able to win 10 games every year and compete for multiple Superbowls with that kind of guy.
RGIII’s upside is unlimited but unless you have a crystal ball and can tell me that 1. His knee will recover and 2. He won’t miss significant time in the future I’m taking Luck
Wilson is interesting but he did have some rough patches during the year and I still don’t know his ceiling. Is he Doug Flutie or can he be early 90′s Steve Young? Regardless, Luck’s downside is basically zero, his baseline line is a 10 year franchise QB and his upside is GOAT, could you imagine Peyton Manning with the athleticism of a pro-bowl TE?
February 2nd, 2013 at 8:12 PM
Still think RGIII was the right choice for ROY but I would take Luck long term.
February 2nd, 2013 at 8:50 PM
He threw way too many interceptions
February 2nd, 2013 at 8:58 PM
That is highly debatable. If we’re saying before the season, there were plenty of GM’s who had Griffin ranked ahead of Luck. At the end of the playoff run, Wilson may have been the best rookie QB. All 3 of the QB’s, barring injury, should be here for the long run. Wilson, even in running, takes less hits than Luck. The talk about Luck not having a downside is hyperbole. His propensity to turn the ball over, especially against better competition when compared to the other 2 is something he must improve. We’ll have to see if the Chuckstrong emotion is something that carried this team to overachieving or if the Colts are going to be able to take the next step.
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:01 PM
I find it interesting that you feel the Chuckstrong situation is a possible reason to doubt Luck. To me the fact that a rookie QB came into the league and did what he did with 2 different head coaches this year is absolute insanity.
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:04 PM
Drew Brees gets in first ballot over my dead body
/wraps duct tape around head to avoid saying anything
(Muffled laughter.)
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:08 PM
I’m going to enjoy my drive to Canton, Ohio someday to see Drew Brees’ induction. It’ll be a fine day in the HeldOver household.
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:09 PM
We’re not, we are talking about right now and right now RGIII has a shredded knee.
You know who else turned the ball over a lot as a rookie? Peyton Manning. Of course the guy needs to improve but his college track record shows me that he is not a guy that turns the ball over a lot. His picks this year can be easily explained through learning a new offense and adjusting to speed of the NFL.
As for Wilson the problem is projectability. With Luck it is pretty easy, he has a lot of the same traits that other successful QBs have. He’s tall, is comfortable throwing from the pocket, has spent his entire career in a pro-style system, he’s smart. You can picture him being the same kind of player as Brady/Peyton/Eli/Matt Ryan/Phillip Rivers with the bonus that he is a much better raw athlete than all those guys. He doesn’t have the arm talent of Rodgers or Cutler but he certainly has enough.
Wilson is much harder to project. Like I said he could be Doug Flutie or Steve Young. The biggest question to me is what happens when his legs regress? Young was able to transition into the most accurate QB in the league. If Wilson can do that he may turn out better than Luck but it’s still a bigger gamble.
Lastly, I think you give GMs far too much credit. These guys are all super conservative and primarily focused on making decision that will not get them fired. It’s why Russel Wilson fell in the draft. He didn’t fall because he failed to show ability on tape he fell because he measured 5’10″ and teams saw that as a risk. It is why Greg Oden was drafted ahead of Durant because scouts and GMs said the lower risk move was to take the franchise center over the unprojectable 6’10″ scoring machine. That is why every GM would take Luck. It may turn out to be the wrong decision but its the heavy favorite in Vegas and the move least likely to get you fired.
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:14 PM
I said we’ll see if the Chuckstrong emotion is something that carried this team to overachieving. Luck is a very good young QB, without question. I just don’t agree with the talk about him not having any potential downside. Everyone has some potential downside. What I have found with the Luck support is that people have been forecasting his greatness for so long, that they’re now invested in him to an extent. The reality is watching those 3 QB’s play this year, there is nothing that Luck does that the other 2 don’t. So, in the end their evaluations shouldn’t be based on pre NFL projections, but projections on what they did on the field in their rookie seasons.
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:17 PM
Brady/Peyton/Eli/Matt Ryan/Phillip Rivers???
Whoa, that list died a sudden and painful death after #4. I demand an explanation.
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:20 PM
i think it was gagworthy for pagano to have gotten second place to arians for coy. carroll, jim harbaugh better and football-based choices
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:22 PM
otis, Shanahan did a great job too
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:25 PM
otis, Shanahan did a great job too
o/u on comments from this point forward on his decision to keep playing rg3? 10
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:29 PM
I thought Shanny should have won in part because of his great personnel moves. He’s not going to be credited as an executive, but he deserves praise in that capacity
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:40 PM
So did Drew Bledsoe. That’s the funny thing about projections, they work pretty much how you want them to. So, in that vein, I’ll project RGIII making a full recovery from his surgery. Why would I project Wilson out to be Doug Flutie, when he started his rookie year in the NFL, and didn’t have to go to the CFL to play? Why would I project on what Wilson will be like once his legs regress and not do the same for Luck when Wilson has less than 30 more rushes than Luck. What I would project is their performance this year, and based on that, Luck is far from a slam dunk over Wilson.
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:44 PM
the atlanta hawks should be embarassed
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:52 PM
Sure he is complete garbage now but from ’06-’10 he was in that discussion best QB not named Manning or Brady. Not that he belonged there with that noodle arm but he was in the discussion.
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:56 PM
Norv Turner will get more credit for his time in San Diego as time moves on
February 2nd, 2013 at 11:07 PM
You’re going to go with Drew Bledsoe? That’s your downside? A 14 year vet who started 193 games and made a superbowl? The KC Chiefs or Cleveland Browns would throw parades if they could find a QB that gave them that.
Because Andrew Luck wasn’t drafted for his legs. Take away his running ability and you still have a 6’5″ 235lbs QB that threw for over 4,000 yards as a rookie. He would still have the skill set to become Manning/Brady/Fouts. Take away Wilson’s legs and what does project? What successful 5’10″ pocket passer would you like to compare him to?
I’m not trying to argue who is better now or who will be better in the future. I’m simply saying that GMs would take Luck because he is the lower risk move.
February 2nd, 2013 at 11:09 PM
Is Sapp just a popular SEO-friendly name? Or am I underrating his career? I would have always thought Ogden >>> Sapp in their career, but everyone is talking about Sapp first and Ogden as an afterthought.
February 2nd, 2013 at 11:11 PM
Keeping in mind I saw a lot more of Ogden than Sapp, since I saw mostly Patriots games.
February 2nd, 2013 at 11:13 PM
Ogden definitely had the better career WWOS. Then again, Allen was the best player of the class. I think it’s just lack of attention paid to OL
February 2nd, 2013 at 11:15 PM
I still can’t get over Parcells getting screwed the first time around. Voters really are petty and sensitive
February 2nd, 2013 at 11:19 PM
That one just confused me. And Larry Allen might be the best G in the NFL for the last 25 years, but a guard can get overlooked. An LT was becoming glamorous at the time Ogden was around, at least recognized as #1-overall pick worthy type of player. Boselli was another one before the bicep (?) injury. Sapp to me just didn’t have enough dominant years, that I remember (again, didn’t see him enough to analyze the nuances).
February 2nd, 2013 at 11:20 PM
Larry Allen, legend. Strongest man to ever play in the NFL
/also, Nate Newton lost some serious weight!
February 2nd, 2013 at 11:32 PM
In the aspect of throwing interceptions, he is the downside because he never really improved that part of his game. In regards to the Chiefs and Browns throwing a parade you know who else would have? The Buffalo Bills of the early 21st century.
none of those QB’s were drafted for their legs.
just as you want to use Luck’s college career as proof that he won’t be throwing this large amount of picks throughout his career, I’ll use Wilson’s college career as proof that he has exhibited an uncanny ability to get his throws pass the offensive line at a rate not expected of someone his size. Similar to what Drew Brees has done throughout his career.
Obviously before the draft, but in the here and now comparative period you’re using, the risk of having Wilson has decreased dramatically.
February 2nd, 2013 at 11:34 PM
Thanks, I needed a laugh.
February 2nd, 2013 at 11:40 PM
Lets not talk down Warren Sapp to build up anyone else. Sapp was a beast. Marshall Faulk said tonight that he was the best defensive player he ever faced.
February 2nd, 2013 at 11:43 PM
Except for the entire 2001 Patriots defense?
/booms
February 3rd, 2013 at 12:13 AM
Game Day Bucket boom > WWOS boom
February 3rd, 2013 at 10:42 AM
Sapp and Brooks (s/b HOF when he’s eligible) changed a culture of losing in Tampa Bay.
I think Larry Allen gets overlooked not just b/c of his position but because he didnt join the Cowboys until the tail end of their run. Played for a lot of mediocre teams in his career.