Tom Brady’s Career Since His Last Super Bowl is a Lot Like the Starts for Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, and Dan Fouts
The career of Tom Brady fascinates me to no end, for any number of reasons. Primary among them is the narrative that picks up around a player. Early in his career, he could not lose in the playoffs. I mean, could not lose. He started with 10 straight wins in the postseason. Some of those games the Patriots won handily; others involved bizarre circumstances or key moments.
Two years ago, after New England lost at home to the Jets, and the Atlanta Falcons and “Matty Ice” lost at home to the Green Bay Packers, I penned one of my personal favorite pieces (not immediately appreciated by the commenters) that was kind of about Matt Ryan, but really about Tom Brady. “The Twisted Tale of Paddy Ice” was a fictional jaunt through the career of a player who went in complete reverse order to Tom Brady’s career up until that point, and an examination of how differently he might be viewed.
Two more years have passed, and two more heartbreaking losses have now occurred when Tom Brady’s team was the favorite. First, in the Super Bowl against an old nemesis, and then at home against a team that has been a thorn in the side for New England the last few years. It has now been eight seasons that the Patriots have entered the season among the favorites to win the title, and eight times they have not. The only comparable stretch I can even compare it to are the stretch for Dallas from the late 70′s to the mid-80′s that included a Super Bowl loss, a crushing defeat to the Rams at home as the top seed, and then three straight championship game losses as a favorite.
I’m not going to go back and weave a tale that includes names like Brian the Lion and Mike Chateau again (thank goodness), but I think it is an interesting question. How would Tom Brady be perceived if the last eight years came at the start of his career?
If we take Brady’s last seven seasons (of course, minus the knee injury year), and compare them to the first seven (non-rookie) seasons of all quarterbacks, who most resembles him? Glad you asked. Here are the most similar quarterbacks to post-rings Tom Brady (using Adusted Net Yards per Attempt (ANYA+) for seasons with 200+ attempts, ordered by best to worst during seven seasons).
- Peyton Manning (1999-2005)
- Dan Marino (1984-1990)
- Dan Fouts (1974-1981)
- Joe Montana (1981-1987)
- Boomer Esiason (1985-1991)
- Jim Kelly (1986-1992)
- Brett Favre (1992-1998)
- Ken Anderson (1972-1979)
Tom Brady has been very, very good over the last eight years. One of the best ever. Eight of the best quarterbacks at the start of their careers are closest to what he has been recently. Only two of them won a Super Bowl title during those years. Only Peyton Manning won one after. I don’t know what that tells you, but it tells me that winning titles is hard. Even the best at their most important position will lose way more than they win in the end.
Now, look at the top of that list, and the power of perception. Tom Brady will draw some criticism today. All three of those guys, like Brady, were on the losing end of playoff games when their team was repeatedly a high seed. The perception of them is vastly different.
The public outcry and perception of Tom Brady would be very different today without the rings. He would be the same person, with the same internal drive and ability. Tom Brady, by the way, would also be a Hall of Famer without three rings in his first four years, when you look at that list. The outcomes of field goal kicks and Tuck rules and catches against a helmet, and crushing home defeats to Baltimore and the New York Jets do not change that.

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101 Responses to “Tom Brady’s Career Since His Last Super Bowl is a Lot Like the Starts for Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, and Dan Fouts”
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January 21st, 2013 at 3:42 PM
TBL made you put in the Jets reference, didn’t he?
January 21st, 2013 at 3:43 PM
Joe Montana. GOAT.
January 21st, 2013 at 3:43 PM
“The Twisted Tale of Paddy Ice”
That’s got to be the title of an It’s Always Sunny episode.
January 21st, 2013 at 3:44 PM
duh
January 21st, 2013 at 3:44 PM
Brady gets more shit because of who he is off the field than who he is on it.
January 21st, 2013 at 3:45 PM
TB is top three post merger, however. Two or three depending on opinions of Elway
January 21st, 2013 at 3:45 PM
And the most shit because of the team and coach he plays for
January 21st, 2013 at 3:47 PM
good piece.
January 21st, 2013 at 3:49 PM
Brady did look like shit yesterday. I think his attempt at running for a first down demonstrated one of Zeno’s paradoxes.
January 21st, 2013 at 3:50 PM
Mallet time.
January 21st, 2013 at 3:50 PM
There should always be an * next to Elway as he was at least 50% horse.
January 21st, 2013 at 3:50 PM
Does he get a lot of shit for either?
January 21st, 2013 at 3:51 PM
Played a B- game I thought. Lot of drops and wrs did a poor job of getting open
January 21st, 2013 at 3:51 PM
LSUFreek sums up yesterday Pat’s game for me.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/nursetpd/NFL/Brady_Dale.gif
January 21st, 2013 at 3:52 PM
Him and Sharpe on the same team. How was that legal? Only on the Broncos
January 21st, 2013 at 3:52 PM
You new to the internet?
January 21st, 2013 at 3:53 PM
Belichick/McDaniels called kind of a shitty game too. end of the first half was Andy Reid-esque.
January 21st, 2013 at 3:54 PM
Brady not throwing that ball out of the end zone was one of the worst plays of his career
January 21st, 2013 at 3:54 PM
I mean real criticism…not “He wears uggs”…and “His team lost”…but he has been playing at a HOF level for over a decade, and he is married to a supermodel. He’s doing OK.
January 21st, 2013 at 3:55 PM
Note to self: Lisk has a long memory. He forgives, but he don’t forget.
January 21st, 2013 at 3:55 PM
Another overlooked play was the decision, midway through the third I think, to try to pass it after he had daylight to run for the first. Bad pass, no first down. He did not look comfortable playing off the cuff at all.
But yes Welker with his obligatory drop didn’t help. For some reason I see him in Denver next year.
January 21st, 2013 at 3:59 PM
That kind of criticism has replaced real criticism though. People don’t use their heads for anything. I’ve had two people tell me in the last week they didn’t like Kaepernick because they felt he was cocky. Really? 9 starts lead you to believe that? Of course they hate Brady based on what he does off the field and because Belichick is his coach. They’ve had much longer to form that opinion.
Jealousy is a stinky cologne.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:00 PM
Note to self: Lisk has a long memory. He forgives, but he don’t forget. SROD
I went and looked at the comments on the link to see what Lisk was talking about. It amazes me how many educated people’s brains melt when there is a post longer than 250 words.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:00 PM
I penned one of my personal favorite pieces (not immediately appreciated by the commenters)
fuck you, I liked it right off.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:02 PM
Does he get a lot of shit for either?
You new to the internet?
I do not believe that Tom Brady gets a lot of shit about anything. But a tortured Pats fan probably believes that Tom Brady is a victim of persecution from most of the world which hates him for his successes, and loves to see an icon torn down.
Meantime, most people who hate him see bullets bounce off his reputation all over the place, while he has hundreds of millions of dollars, is revered, and is married to supermodels.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:02 PM
Great post.
Others involved Mike Martz being a meatheaded dumbass and not giving the best player in football the ball.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:03 PM
Kissing the biceps is the new Belt
January 21st, 2013 at 4:04 PM
Note to self: Lisk has a long memory. He forgives, but he don’t forget.
I actually didn’t remember that until I went back through the post and saw the first few comments.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:04 PM
but it tells me that winning titles is hard.
if you’re a choker, it is.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:05 PM
I did too god dammit
January 21st, 2013 at 4:06 PM
I do not believe that Tom Brady gets a lot of shit about anything. But a tortured Pats fan probably believes that Tom Brady is a victim of persecution from most of the world which hates him for his successes, and loves to see an icon torn down.
Meantime, most people who hate him see bullets bounce off his reputation all over the place, while he has hundreds of millions of dollars, is revered, and is married to supermodels.
The relative responses to Brady’s team and Manning’s team both losing at home to the Ravens, and comparing how they and their offenses played, is not the same, that’s for sure. Jason Whitlock didn’t implore me not to write this one.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:07 PM
Ha. I bet that was harsh. I didn’t comment on that Paddy Ice post, but I read it again last night when you linked to it. Enjoyed it. This was was good too.
Thoughts on Barnwell over at Grantland writing on the same topic you’ve been trumpeting for some time now? Is this “Brady’s career in reverse” a fairly common idea for you “smart” writers to think/write on?
January 21st, 2013 at 4:07 PM
I was mean to Matt Ryan in those days but I’ve since relented…he was awesome yesterday (and underappreciated a bit during the regular season once he had those two bad games and everyone made fun of those who suggested he was MVP material), just one botched snap handle and that game completely flips
January 21st, 2013 at 4:07 PM
If I became a starting QB and started tearing it up in the league, I sure as shit will have a little cockiness going on. Certain people expect athletes to be robots and not have a personality sometimes.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:08 PM
TATTOOS
January 21st, 2013 at 4:08 PM
Kaepernick is incredible. I just hate his coach.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:09 PM
That list of similar players is insane. It really shows you how dumb the QB wins argument is.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:10 PM
Thoughts on Barnwell over at Grantland writing on the same topic you’ve been trumpeting for some time now? Is this “Brady’s career in reverse” a fairly common idea for you “smart” writers to think/write on?
I thought that was funny. Not funny ha ha, but funny intellectual property theft.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:10 PM
I judge QBs on numbers that matter, like consecutive games with a TD pass
/Saints Fan
January 21st, 2013 at 4:10 PM
Really? I’ve been hearing a great deal of Brady can’t win in the playoffs stuff lately. Maybe it’s trolling that I’ve misinterpreted.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:11 PM
And number of teams that drafted Phil Rivers because they didn’t think their qb was any good
January 21st, 2013 at 4:11 PM
I’d also be curious to see the list of similar players generated for Matt Ryan’s first five seasons.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:12 PM
Really? I’ve been hearing a great deal of Brady can’t win in the playoffs stuff lately. Maybe it’s trolling that I’ve misinterpreted.
well, there was one guy recently touting the playoff record of (the Lefty Matt) Sanchez versus Brady since Sanchez came into the league. But he also still believes that Sanchez goes after women for his sexual needs, so he’s pretty deluded.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:12 PM
You should listen to fewer Jets fans.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:13 PM
Same here.
Also, I didn’t mean “smart” sarcastically, I just couldn’t think of any other way to quickly describe their style.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:13 PM
On the Barnwell front…on twitter, during the game, he suggested the Niners with a 4-point lead and backed up on their own goal line may want to end up taking an intentional safety.
He probably wants that one back.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:14 PM
Stat-centric
January 21st, 2013 at 4:16 PM
On the Barnwell front…on twitter, during the game, he suggested the Niners with a 4-point lead and backed up on their own goal line may want to end up taking an intentional safety.
He probably wants that one back.
I too, was screaming for the safety at that point. The runaround safety would have killed plenty of seconds, then Andy Lee punting from the 20, uncontested, with hang time? They could have pinned them further back with less time.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:17 PM
If the punter is able to burn 5+ seconds off the clock running around it probably would have worked since punting from the 20 then means either the guy fair catches it 70 yards from the end zone or they run out the clock on the return
It also would have doubled as another amazing gambling moment in a game involving Jim Harbaugh
January 21st, 2013 at 4:17 PM
But then a FG loses the game. I was not a fan of that plan.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:19 PM
During the Pats Super Bowl run, Brady didnt always have to be great. His first SB he was the “game manager” (145 yds, 1 TD) while the defense got Kurt Warner for a couple picks including a pick-6. He had a similar game against the Colts in ’04 on a miserable day where the Colts kept fumbling and Corey Dillon had a big day.
The last 5 years he’s had to carry a much bigger load for the team and if he has a bad game, the rest of the team isnt good enough to pick him up.
I mean for a WINSSSSS!!!-based argument to hold up you have to believe that Brady has been getting worse for the past 8 years.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:20 PM
But then a FG loses the game. I was not a fan of that plan.
So does a punt return for a touchdown, when you’re keeping guys in to protect.
So does a hail mary to Julio Jones, who was beastly and a half.
And from 16 seconds (on that 4th down), if you could kill 5 on the runaround, then a few more on the uncontested punt, you could get them down to just one play left.
Although his punt was a good one anyway, so it worked out fine.
Of note, Julio Jones caught a really long hook, and almost got that lateral off.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:21 PM
Shouldn’t be any time for a FG. If you free kick from the 20 with :07 seconds left any type of long return would eat up the rest of the game clock.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:23 PM
They didn’t keep guys in…in fact they left their gunner out there with no one on him (until the Falcon ran over right before the kick).
I get the idea.
Does the clock run on the uncontested punt?
January 21st, 2013 at 4:23 PM
ATL needs to upgrade the DL or they’ll be wasting years of prime offense by getting bludgeoned at the LOS
January 21st, 2013 at 4:23 PM
Nope, dead until caught, like a kickoff. I’m 99% sure
January 21st, 2013 at 4:24 PM
I’m probably overreacting, but the best wideouts in the NFL right now goes Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones and AJ Green in some order, right?
January 21st, 2013 at 4:24 PM
Yep, didn’t even take that into consideration in my comment…Andy Lee could come close to running out the clock himself
Of course perhaps Harbaugh recognized that Ryan had a busted shoulder and decided that the Hail Mary was a near impossibility
January 21st, 2013 at 4:25 PM
It should be noted that two of Montana’s rings came the following two seasons after the seven year period. And that his other two came during the four seasons of the seven year period and without Jerry Rice.
/GOAT
January 21st, 2013 at 4:26 PM
If this is true…then I’ve flipped.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:26 PM
no way you take the safety in that situation…
January 21st, 2013 at 4:26 PM
I’d also be curious to see the list of similar players generated for Matt Ryan’s first five seasons.
the first five years of Tom Brady (regular season, obviously not team playoff results) would rate highly on a similar list.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:28 PM
I don’t think an “uncontested punt” is a thing…there’s the rule where you can fair catch a punt and get off an uncontested FG with no time remaining but if Andy Lee is kicking without worrying about a return he could have had Bryant attempting a 90-yarder
Dammit, I need Madden here to explain the rules here again…he’d always get so excited when it was a possibility and then you’d hear the disappointment in his voice when it didn’t come to be
January 21st, 2013 at 4:30 PM
Wow- interesting. Thanks.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:31 PM
We are just referring to a post-safety punt. I figured the clock didn’t run.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:36 PM
Does the clock run on the uncontested punt?
no, the clock doesn’t run till it’s touched. And the uncontested punt is the post safety punt, which is uncontested by the defense.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:36 PM
You know, maybe the clock doesn’t run, I wasn’t letting that bit register…get Lisk on the case
January 21st, 2013 at 4:37 PM
no way you take the safety in that situation…
there’s also no way anybody ever actually goes for 2 up 7 to try and get to 9, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a possible move.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:39 PM
That would take some balls. Chip Kelly will break it out week 3.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:40 PM
call me crazy but I still think Fitzgerald belongs on that list somewhere.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:42 PM
Stop lumping me in with those deadheads!
/ Returns to organizing “Archie for Hall of Fame” campaign
January 21st, 2013 at 4:43 PM
Definitely Fitz is up there. Marshall too. It’s officially the big wr era
January 21st, 2013 at 4:43 PM
call me crazy but I still think Fitzgerald belongs on that list somewhere.
poor bastard. At least he got paid, though, right?
I’ll go Johnson, Julio Jones, somebody I’m forgetting (let’s placehold with VJax), AJ Green, Fitz, and hopefully Dez.
My miserable mother in law yesterday would not shut up about how Julio Jones must be hispanic because black people don’t name their kids Julio.
My watching experience was definitely unenhanced by her presence.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:43 PM
I can’t recall the Patriots not making the two-point try, thought Baltimore should have given it a go at 20-13
January 21st, 2013 at 4:45 PM
Maybe eventually. Still too error prone in route adjustments, etc. Ability is there. I’m also partial to Nicks, but he can’t seem to stay healthy. Same for Harvin, assuming the totality of his game is considered
January 21st, 2013 at 4:45 PM
there’s also no way anybody ever actually goes for 2 up 7 to try and get to 9, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a possible move.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:46 PM
thought Baltimore should have given it a go at 20-13
I guess the risk/reward thing doesn’t factor when the XP risk is zero. Whatever any of the other probabilities, it’s better to take zero risk to go up 8.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:47 PM
I can’t recall the Patriots not making the two-point try, thought Baltimore should have given it a go at 20-13
I always have wanted teams to do this, if you make it you are up 2 scores, if you miss you’re still up 7 and the other team won’t go for two anyway.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:48 PM
Maybe eventually. Still too error prone in route adjustments, etc.
whatever you say. Kid’s a beast. Throw the ball to Dez.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:48 PM
I’m gonna go ahead and put him in the Owens/Ochocinco category — supremely talented, and doomed to largely piss it away as he bounces from team to team, wearing out his welcome along the way.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:49 PM
hopefully Dez.
it seems as though he will learn the nuances of the position or work hard enough to get there, but I guess its possible
January 21st, 2013 at 4:49 PM
I’m opening a bigass can of worms with the dumbass comment I’m about to make, but while the argument is that Fitz has had nothing but garbage QBs throwing to him, he evidently hasn’t done a whole lot to make them better. Meanwhile, guys like AJ Green, Vincent Jackson and Brandon Marshall have been excellent regardless of who’s throwing to them.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:51 PM
And I’m convinced Dez is one of those guys too, who can make any QB look like a million dollars. He looked like the second coming of Moss in that Saints game.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:52 PM
Yuuuuuuuuuuuge difference between qb play of those three and Fitz. Now if you want to bitch about Fitz’s contract limiting the team, a la Chris Johnson, I’ll be more amenable
January 21st, 2013 at 4:53 PM
I just think any of those three guys are capable of making chicken salad out of chicken shit in that situation. Fitz hasn’t.
January 21st, 2013 at 4:54 PM
Fitz has 10,4000 yds receiving in 9 years, half that time he has played with QB’s that could not start on any team but the Jets…
January 21st, 2013 at 4:55 PM
too many zeroes
January 21st, 2013 at 4:55 PM
Arizona’s qb play this yr may have been the worst in NFL history (haven’t looked into it, but worst I remember)
January 21st, 2013 at 4:57 PM
Lisk, I find it hard to believe Dallas was a favorite in any of those three consecutive NFC Championships in the early 80′s, let alone all three. They were on the road each time–at Philly, at Washington, at San Fran.
Has really nothing to do with your post but that struck me as odd.
Also a look at Danny White’s career would be interesting I think. I suspect his numbers would surprise you and he was a guy who couldn’t “win” when it counted.
January 21st, 2013 at 5:11 PM
Fitzgerald was having a decent season until Kevin Kolb (who really isn’t all that good himself) went down.
and it’s not just quarterback play. Arizona’s leading rusher went for 357 yards on 3.2 yards per carry. if the defense knows your team can’t run and your quarterback can’t throw, there isn’t a whole lot you can do.
January 21st, 2013 at 5:21 PM
Stop it, you’re making Smallie Bigs cry into his alcoholic beverage.
January 21st, 2013 at 5:23 PM
Everyone is stupid.
January 21st, 2013 at 5:24 PM
I’m smaht
/Fredo
January 21st, 2013 at 5:47 PM
Brady gets more shit because of who he is off the field than who he is on it.
Yeah – but it is getting closer every year – isn’t it?
January 21st, 2013 at 6:00 PM
Julio had a great game, but AJ Green is the 2nd best WR in football
January 21st, 2013 at 6:20 PM
Is it really supposed to be an insult to compare Bryant to the career productivity of TO and Ochocinco? Whatever, that kid was a beast in the second half of the season, and took a giant leap towards being a top tier receiver.
January 21st, 2013 at 6:55 PM
Roddy white…b marshall
January 21st, 2013 at 8:40 PM
No Andre Johnson mentions? You all are bastard people
January 21st, 2013 at 8:49 PM
AJ has an albashcaub around his neck stark
January 21st, 2013 at 9:09 PM
List time:
1. C. Johnson
2. Marshall
3. Fitz
4. Green
5. Jones
January 21st, 2013 at 10:14 PM
Re-read the “Twisted Tale”. I loved it. I missed it first time around, but I enjoyed the humor and the snark. Agree with the perspective.
“Author, author!”