Big Lead Sports Finished Ahead of ESPN, Sports Illustrated, and Phil Steele in Preseason College Football Rankings
When Alabama put the finishing touches on the national title destruction, our thoughts turned to next season. Our preseason #1 had won the national title. I know, I know, not exactly rocket science to have Alabama #1 since it has now won three of the last four titles. Except the majority of polls and publications did not. USC and LSU were #1 in the majority of them five months ago. The site collegefootballpoll.com compiled the preseason rankings of nine different sources, and the Sports Illustrated rankings were the other one with Alabama at #1.
I took those preseason rankings for the nine publications and then compared them to the final AP poll after the bowl games concluded. There were seven teams in the final rankings that did not appear in any of the preseason rankings. Texas A&M was the most notable, and I know they were in our discussion based on their SRS rating last year, but the unknown was quarterback. That kind of worked out in A&M’s first year in the SEC.
Meanwhile, there were 35 different teams that appeared in at least one of the rankings preseason (and thus, 18 of them ended the year ranked). To compare the relative rankings, for each of those 35 teams, I ranked each ranking publication by how close they were to the final ranking. The closest got a 1, and the farthest away a 9. In case of ties, points were split (so a two way tie for most accurate would get 1.5 points each).
Let’s take Ohio State, who ended up 3rd in the AP, as an example. Athlon had Ohio State at 6th, so they got 1 point. Big Lead/USA Today Preview Magazine had Ohio State 8th, the second closest. Phil Steele had them 11th (3 points), and Lindy’s had them 14th (4 points).
Do that for all 35 teams ranked by at least one of the publications, and here are the results.
- Big Lead Sports/USA Today (152.5)
- ESPN Live (163.5)
- Sports Illustrated (170)
- Preseason Coaches Poll (174)
- Athlon (174)
- Preseason AP Poll (175.5)
- Lindy’s (177)
- Phil Steele (185.5)
- Sporting News (204)
Our hits were Alabama #1, Ohio State in the Top Ten, Oregon ranked as high as anyone else (4th), having more skepticism of Virginia Tech and Michigan State than any of the other rankings, and being higher on Florida and Notre Dame. Our biggest misses were being lower on Georgia and Clemson than most, and I suppose, being higher on Oklahoma State (though they should have been ranked in the final poll and are one of the 25 best teams in the country).
Here are the number of times each publication was in the top two or bottom two in regard to the rankings on the 35 most frequently rated teams entering the season.
- Big Lead Sports/USA Today (10 in top, 2 in bottom)
- ESPN Live (7 in top, 4 in bottom)
- Sports Illustrated (10 in top, 8 in bottom)
- Athlon (6 in top, 6 in bottom)
- Coaches Poll (3 in top, 4 in bottom)
- Associated Press Poll (2 in top, 3 in bottom)
- Lindy’s (6 in top, 7 in bottom)
- Sporting News (5 in top, 7 in bottom)
- Phil Steele (8 in top, 13 in bottom)
Phil Steele is one of my favorite publications. He also does not pay attention to other polls, which is a good thing to avoid group think. He had the third most hits, but also the most misses, because his rankings are least correlated with any others. The AP and Coaches Polls, meanwhile, represent a survey of a large number of voters and tended to fall in the middle on most of the teams, and were rarely at an extreme on a team.
Our rankings were done with a philosophy that we were going to rank teams based on perceived quality, and disregard strength of schedule and trying to predict who might get ranked because of a gaudy won loss record. That probably cost us by having too many teams from the SEC and Big XII (13 of the 25) in our rankings on balance, but also kept us from overvaluing others that were not as strong as people thought. Ty Duffy had the final call on the rankings after we debated and discussed tiers and who should be in consideration. It was our first year doing the rankings for a glossy magazine, like the ones we used to read as kids, so it was good to see we acquitted ourselves well.
Of course, no ranking or prediction is perfect, and the season is nowhere near as predictable as we would like to believe with hindsight. I know that you knew that Texas A&M was going to be awesome, but remember that no one had them ranked and a year ago people were talking about how much of an error it was for them to go to the SEC.
[photo via USA Today Sports Images]

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103 Responses to “Big Lead Sports Finished Ahead of ESPN, Sports Illustrated, and Phil Steele in Preseason College Football Rankings”
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January 11th, 2013 at 2:05 PM
What’s that? I hear Barry Horowitz’s music!!!
January 11th, 2013 at 2:05 PM
/Barry Horowitz’d
January 11th, 2013 at 2:06 PM
Not really.
/
HerniaQueeferJanuary 11th, 2013 at 2:06 PM
Damn you scripty
January 11th, 2013 at 2:07 PM
Barry Horowitz!
/I don’t get it, but all the cool kids are doing it.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:10 PM
Nice job. That’s a cool feather to have in your cap.
/now don’t fuck it up by having UF 7th and Louisville not in the top-20
January 11th, 2013 at 2:10 PM
Why not use the Coaches’ Poll. The AP Poll is worth as much as toilet paper.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:12 PM
Haters
January 11th, 2013 at 2:12 PM
is there a more jewish name than barry horowitz that doesn;t start with shlomo?
January 11th, 2013 at 2:12 PM
Looking forward to the basketball version.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:13 PM
Chaim Perelman
January 11th, 2013 at 2:13 PM
I thought it had been decided in these very comments on this very site on numerous occasions that preseason rankings are worthless.
/ Plus no one reads the comments = doubly worthless
January 11th, 2013 at 2:15 PM
Why not use the Coaches’ Poll. The AP Poll is worth as much as toilet paper.
I don’t see much difference between the two, as far as toilet paper quality goes. Coaches doesnt have Ohio State though, because I guess they were barred from ranking them.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:15 PM
tamir goodman
January 11th, 2013 at 2:16 PM
/now don’t fuck it up by having UF 7th and Louisville not in the top-20
The same rationale that had us not have Michigan St and Va Tech as highly applies to Louisville in 2013.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:16 PM
toilet paper is a valuable commodity, unlike the Coaches’ poll.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:17 PM
Chaim Weitz > Chaim Perelman
/ Helps if you know who Chaim Weitz is
January 11th, 2013 at 2:18 PM
Good call. Forgot about Ohio State being ineligible.
Those teams have Bridgewater and an easy schedule?
January 11th, 2013 at 2:18 PM
The Jewish Jordan!
/ Speaking of which, as I pointed out the other day, soon to hit a theater near you: The Hebrew Hammer vs. Hitler
January 11th, 2013 at 2:19 PM
The coaches’ poll has guys opening tailoring their ballots to benefit themselves or their conference (and by guys I mean the grad assistants the coaches have look over box scores and fill out), don’t see it as being markedly better
January 11th, 2013 at 2:19 PM
Teams most likely to be overrated next year: Texas A&M, Clemson, Florida
Teams most likely to be underrated: Nebraska, Wisconsin, TCU
January 11th, 2013 at 2:19 PM
jonah goldberg
Efraim Mendalbaum
January 11th, 2013 at 2:20 PM
Chaim Perelman
Chaim Weitz > Chaim Perelman
/ Helps if you know who Chaim Weitz is
i have a strong feeling that chaim is not pronounced like chain with an m on the end. probably have to do something crazy with your spit and nasal passages
January 11th, 2013 at 2:20 PM
Both are flawed. I wold have gone with the AP as well now that Lisk reminded me of Ohio State’s exclusion.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:20 PM
Efraim Mendalbaum
leader in deli
January 11th, 2013 at 2:22 PM
Does Duke lose a lot or is there a chance someone will join Spurrier in giving them a preseason vote at long last?
January 11th, 2013 at 2:22 PM
Those teams have Bridgewater and an easy schedule?
We didn’t rate it based on schedule. We can debate whether you want to rate teams on schedule or not, but I would rather try to pick out the best teams, even if they play a tough schedule and will go 9-3 instead of 11-1 because of it.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:22 PM
#humblebrag
January 11th, 2013 at 2:23 PM
Back in my AP days, I dealt with sportswriters who took part in the poll. Some weren’t much more conscientious than some of the coaches. They’d fill in the top 5 spots, then tell me, “Fill out the rest for me.”
January 11th, 2013 at 2:23 PM
Oh…I like your method much better, but when you do this next year you’ll get smacked by having L’ville as low as you’re going to have them. That’s all I’m saying.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:24 PM
Hey, CHAIM, didya have a happy CHAH-noo-KAH?
January 11th, 2013 at 2:25 PM
I think it would be cool if you guys did two polls next year. The one you did this year where you look at nothing but talent. Then do one where you try and predict the final AP poll in which you look at schedules and stuff like that. It would be cool to compare each poll to one another.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:25 PM
Esther Bloomenbergensteinenthal
January 11th, 2013 at 2:25 PM
Izzy Mandelbaum > Efraim Mendalbaum
January 11th, 2013 at 2:26 PM
what would be a poll that everyone would agree was legit? the flaws with the current ones are usually that the voters can’t possibly see all the teams/games, or have an agenda other than true rankings. media makes the most sense, but the equivalent to coaches doing their actual jobs is the media filing stories daily. not sure anything but a specialized job focused just on polling could make everyone happy. computers, that’s the ticket
January 11th, 2013 at 2:27 PM
Ike Moisha Broflovski
January 11th, 2013 at 2:28 PM
woody allen
January 11th, 2013 at 2:28 PM
There isn’t one and never will be one. That’s CFB, though. The debate is a big part of it.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:29 PM
The one drawback with computers is the one idiot one that voted Notre Dame ahead of Bama after the NCG.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:30 PM
Known as Allen Konigsberg until he met Mia Farrow’s kids, when he got all woody.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:33 PM
They will need to have margin of victory as a component. But of course that means the high and mighty writers can write about the evil coach who runs the score up. I look forward to Oregon making it in over Ohio State one year when both teams are great, but Oregon left Mariota in for 4 quarters against Chattahoochee whereas Meyer pulled Miller after 2.5 against Western Carolina.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:36 PM
Ike Moisha Broflovski
now you;re just making shit up
murray sperber
benjamin netanyahu
January 11th, 2013 at 2:36 PM
Lisk: What were some of the metrics that you and Duffy looked at when doing these? What were the things that you weighed the most heavily? SRS?
January 11th, 2013 at 2:38 PM
The one you did this year where you look at nothing but talent.
like recruiting rankings?
January 11th, 2013 at 2:39 PM
Or whatever they looked at. SRS, YPP, returning starters…whatever.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:40 PM
Swampsey
January 11th, 2013 at 2:41 PM
So why compare to the AP poll, if your goal isn’t to match the AP poll. If your goal is to say which teams are better on a neutral field, then saying you beat ESPN in a poll that doesn’t really do that is hardly an accomplishment.
Basically if “AP Poll sucks” then I’m not sure “We were the closest to it” is as bragging as you’d like.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:42 PM
what would be a poll that everyone would agree was legit?
Sagarin
/H-town
January 11th, 2013 at 2:44 PM
Naw. I have no idea how accurate Sagarin is. I have used it as a data point in arguments several times however, as I’m making the assumption that it’s less biased than citing some human’s rankings.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:45 PM
For all of the talk that the SEC is all defense and not much else, check out YPP. They have some suck in the SEC offensively, but they have the goods, too.
1) Georgia
2) Texas A&M
5) Alabama
…
92) Florida (LOLz)
January 11th, 2013 at 2:46 PM
Lisk did a three-year SRS average. Modified it for returning starters, quarterbacks coming back. I did an eye-ball ranking and then we sort of homogenized the two. We agreed on tiers of where to put the teams and then ranked them within those tiers.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:47 PM
Oh how the mighty have fallen. Hawai’i was 122/123 in YPP offensively. Damn.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:47 PM
Bammer and ATM were the best two offenses mid-season on IMO
January 11th, 2013 at 2:48 PM
Is this an adult stat?
January 11th, 2013 at 2:48 PM
How so (or is that a trade secret kind of thing)?
Nice. Using tiers is the only way to go. It’s so hard actually ranking teams 1-25. I know that’s ultimately what has to happen, but it’s a bitch.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:49 PM
They did this year for sure. When I go to that site I think it’s better to filter for just FBS games though.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:51 PM
That makes sense, though Ga Southern/Sam Houston?etc.. are better than a good bit of FBS schools.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:52 PM
If you filter it for just FBS, UGA is No. 1, A&M is No. 2 and Bama is No. 6
January 11th, 2013 at 2:53 PM
Duffy, with your top 20 poll from last week or whenever, was your goal to identify the order of teams on a neutral field, or to predict final BCS/AP whatever standings at the end of the season?
I got the impression that talking about A&M dropping back, you were more predicting how the season would play out, in the final polls, given the schedules, talents, etc.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:53 PM
Yeah. Texas was higher than I thought. Don’t remember the exact ranking but I think it was near 18 or something.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:54 PM
The real kicker is filtering it with FBS teams with above .500 records. UGA falls to 12th, Bama only to 9th and A&M only to 6th.
Or better yet, AP ranked teams. Bama stays at 6th (fucking unreal) Texas A&M falls way down to 18th and UGA falls a bit to 15th. Fucking Bama…that OL was just absurd.
January 11th, 2013 at 2:59 PM
You need to watch more South Park.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:03 PM
Oh how the mighty have fallen. Hawai’i was 122/123 in YPP offensively.
colt brennan we turn our tropical eyes to you
January 11th, 2013 at 3:04 PM
You need to watch more South Park.
everyone does.
/top of head comes off when i talk
January 11th, 2013 at 3:09 PM
You don’t seem to like this post very much.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:09 PM
I hate the Eagles, but Don Henley’s Boys of Summer is a good tune.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:14 PM
I hate horses, but Don from Hot To Trot was pretty cool.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:15 PM
Boys of Summer is a good tune
sunset grill is ok too. bubble headed bleach blond song is alright
January 11th, 2013 at 3:17 PM
I hate fishes, but A Fish Called Wanda is a good movie.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:19 PM
I hate the Eagles, but Don Griffin was a pretty good DB.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:19 PM
I hate donkeys, but donkey lips from Salute Your Shorts is a legend.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:19 PM
I hate Community.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:20 PM
That’s it.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:20 PM
Wouldn’t hold out much hope for the tape deck, or the Creedence.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:21 PM
I hate Miami, but Don Johnson was pretty cool in Miami Vice.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:21 PM
That should be the theme song of Fox and Friends.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:22 PM
But Dan Harmon is a genius! It show is so witty and clever! And meta!
January 11th, 2013 at 3:23 PM
I hated Miami Vice, but Johnson was great in Tin Cup.
/ Melanie Griffin’s cups were great in Night Moves
January 11th, 2013 at 3:23 PM
At the table next to me watching the game on Monday I heard someone say “I’m so meta” and they weren’t joking, it was one of the worst nights of my life.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:23 PM
And Chevy Chase hasn’t been a pompous hack for the last 25 years
January 11th, 2013 at 3:24 PM
Don Johnson was great in Django, and Nash Bridges.
And Heartbeats.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:24 PM
K-K-K-Ken is c-c-c-coloring to k-k-k-kill K-K-K-Kevin K-K-K-Kline!
January 11th, 2013 at 3:24 PM
Or was it Heartbeeps. I don’t know.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:24 PM
I hated Moesha, but Ray-J was pretty good in…
January 11th, 2013 at 3:25 PM
Don Johnson was awesome in Django, so was Tom Wopat.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:25 PM
I hate guineas, but Don Corleone was measured in The Godfather
January 11th, 2013 at 3:25 PM
Shylock Weinstein
January 11th, 2013 at 3:25 PM
Made greater by Cheech Marin.
/ See also Tin Cup, From Dusk Til Dawn and Born in East L.A.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:26 PM
Nash Bridges.
/dying
January 11th, 2013 at 3:27 PM
Tom Wopat is in Django, and they couldn’t find a role for John Schneider?!
January 11th, 2013 at 3:29 PM
That show had a solid list of guest stars.
Was the show I had to watch with my dad when I’d be there every other weekend, so I think I saw half the episodes.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:29 PM
When it comes to ’80s songs and videos, the only thing cheesier is Willis’s The Return of Bruno.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:29 PM
I once interviewed John Shneider and Wopat for that Dukes of Hazzard 20 year reunion.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:29 PM
Lisk: What were some of the metrics that you and Duffy looked at when doing these? What were the things that you weighed the most heavily? SRS?
There wasn’t a hard formula. What I did was create a program ranking based on three year’s worth of SRS, weighted to more recent. Some specific cases have to be adjusted (change in coach or something) I also looked at returning starters, particularly QB and o-line. Recruiting rankings. Stanford turned out even better than we thought without Luck, but part of the reason we still expected them to be good was the strength of recent recruiting classes.
I think we put independently put together a list of teams, and then compared to see where there were differences based on my method and Ty doing his rankings. Then Ty had final say on who to adjust.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:30 PM
James Gammon made everything he was in so much better. Sad that people know him only from Major League.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:31 PM
I would have strongly volunteered to get the “inside access” with Catherine Bach.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:33 PM
what they couldnt find time for Michael Madesn to show up for an episode?
January 11th, 2013 at 3:34 PM
A Fish Called Wanda is a good movie
K-K-K-Ken is c-c-c-coloring to k-k-k-kill K-K-K-Kevin K-K-K-Kline!
you americans make my ass tweeeetch!
January 11th, 2013 at 3:44 PM
Just a power rankings of Top 20 teams. I didn’t factor in schedules.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:51 PM
I’m more confused by it. I like all the posts here, that’s why I keep commenting.
/duh
January 11th, 2013 at 3:55 PM
you have to like posts to comment? I just come here to mock Queefer.
January 11th, 2013 at 3:56 PM
I assume Lisk wrote this with his pants down
January 11th, 2013 at 4:18 PM
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics. – Mark Twain
Phil Steele and Athlon predicted the most top ten teams – 5
Big Lead, ESPN and Lindy’s correctly picked the most top 25 teams – 17
Nice working with your predictions. 17 out of 25 is strong.