Robert Griffin III: The Latest Young Phenom Hopes Modern Science Changes History
Sunday, when Robert Griffin III crumpled to the turf after trying to gather a bad snap, I had a very visceral reaction. I called Mike Shanahan grossly negligent for leaving a clearly injured and ineffective RGIII in the game. It was an emotional response but not a snap judgment; I had been calling for Griffin to be out for two quarters. For me, it was the early third and short, just after he had re-injured the knee prior to the second touchdown. He had a wide open opportunity to scramble for the first down and slide, and he didn’t, instead awkwardly trying to plant and bouncing a pass to Logan Paulsen. His next pass was the interception, and on that one too, he was not himself. He could not plant.
A young star quarterback had put together a season the likes of which we have rarely seen (until the last couple, we are at risk of getting spoiled and assuming this is status quo). He was not that quarterback after the first quarter on Sunday. It seemed obvious. The red warning flags of compensating on a bad knee and risking injury, having an unstable knee, a bad field, and a defense ready to tee off on a quarterback who could not move were there.
While we have not seen many rookie quarterbacks like Griffin, we have seen young star quarterbacks in this game flash the promise of youth. Joe Namath is now perceived as a weak Hall of Fame choice by many; he was one of the best young quarterback in the game. He was mobile with a lightning quick release and strong arm. He had a serious knee injury in college, and repeated knee injuries in the pros that gradually sapped him. He couldn’t stay on the field as he entered his late twenties. Greg Cook had one of the most dynamic rookie years for Paul Brown’s Bengals, but injured his rotator cuff that season and played with it undiagnosed. He never was the same.
Second overall pick Bert Jones had one of the best seasons ever in 1976, averaging 9.0 yards per attempt and sweeping the MVP awards at age 25. Bill Belichick called him the best “pure passer” he had seen. Shoulder injuries robbed him, and he never appeared in a pro bowl or on an all pro team again. We’ve seen Daunte Culpepper and Randall Cunningham both go down with knee injuries. Culpepper never came back. Cunningham had one last brilliant passing season at age 35 with Randy Moss.
Those were in the past, though. We now have the brilliant modern science that can bring Adrian Peterson to a 2,000 yard season less than a year after a torn ACL and MCL.That, though, is a best case scenario. The recovery time, if Griffin is to play on opening day in 2013, falls between that which was accomplished by Wes Welker and Adrian Peterson. Not everyone gets back to where they were after an injury today. We’ll have to wait and see how Robert Griffin III turns out, but I’d rather he be remembered by everyone, not the great coach thirty years from now telling all the young whippersnappers about how good Griffin was “if you only saw him before the injuries.”
This is the second time that Robert Griffin will have knee surgery for an ACL tear in his right knee in three and half years, going back to September of 2009. He tried to play on it after tearing his ACL in that game, so I think we can go ahead and talk about his competitiveness, and how he is not the best judge of when he should be playing. He has had two concussions in a year–the one earlier this season against Atlanta, and against Texas Tech last year.
The frustrating part about this is that you don’t always see that hit coming. In this case, though, Griffin was already injured by playing on a sprained knee. He then re-injured it, and the effects were noticeable in the game against the Seahawks. It didn’t have to happen in the fourth quarter of a game where he should not have been out there, already injured and not himself. He’s going to have to change, and Washington is going to have to change their approach, or we will be telling our kids that Robert Griffin III was really good. They may not believe us when they look back. You just had to be there.
[photo via USA Today Sports Images]
Related: Robert Griffin III Injures His Knee Again While Playing Game Visibly Hurt, Thanks to Mike Shanahan
Related: Robert Griffin III Knocked Out of the Baltimore Game with Apparent Knee Injury
Related: Robert Griffin III Got Knocked Out of the Game by Sean Weatherspoon of the Falcons [Video]

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239 Responses to “Robert Griffin III: The Latest Young Phenom Hopes Modern Science Changes History”
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January 9th, 2013 at 1:20 PM
Good job, Lisk
/goes back to read post
January 9th, 2013 at 1:22 PM
Culpepper was only good when he was a threat to run. That move he used to make in the red zone, where he’d fake a QB draw and toss a pass to a wide open TE after the LB left his spot, was brilliant. As soon as his knee went, so did his career. I seriously hope the same isn’t true for RG3, but he looks like a more accurate and confident passer than Daunte was.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:25 PM
Why the hell do people keep saying the best case scenario is Adrian Peterson? Buncha crystal ball future readers up in here. Whos to say he can’t come back faster, stronger, and better than AP did?
January 9th, 2013 at 1:26 PM
Evgeni Malkin didn’t even have to use HGH to have the kind of season AP had.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:26 PM
Jeebus.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:27 PM
Agreed it makes no sense to say that best case scenario would be to put up one of the best individual seasons ever coming off reconstructive knee surgery.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:27 PM
When are media/regular people (this means you Lisk)just going to accept that they are wrong about this? To a man, every GM, coach and player that I have heard from says Shanny was not wrong. Can you imagine the outrage in DC if he is pulled from a game they are winning and Cousins comes in and blows it? Then everyone’s outrage could have been directed the other way (and it no doubt would have been). You don’t need to go any further back than “The Strasburg Incident” to see how that would have gone over. Griffin proved in the past he could play hurt and while not 100%, play well enough to win. Skins were winning in the 4th quarter and if anyone of those guys stealing paychecks from the Skins makes a play on either side of the effing ball, we aren’t having this discussion.
/Looking at you DHall, Josh Wilson, Madieu Williams, Hankerson, Paulsen, Kerrigan, etc, etc, etc.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:28 PM
blame the field!
January 9th, 2013 at 1:29 PM
Because his numbers suck. Now, that most likely is a direct result of the injuries, but the hall of fame would be packed out if everyone got in based on what they would have done had they not been banged up or hurt.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:30 PM
That is definitely the best case scenario. I’m guessing Griffin’s knee isn’t in as pristine of a condition as AD especially with previous ACL tear.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:31 PM
But then proved after first two drives that he couldn’t
January 9th, 2013 at 1:31 PM
Snyder should be hanging his head in shame over this field debacle. What a colossal jackass. Hope the NFLPA blasts him for it. Apparently there is a document that is signed off on stating that a field is up to snuff. Thus far, this doc hasn’t turned up yet.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:31 PM
Will Montgomery should be listed at the top of this list.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:32 PM
I don’t thin RG3 will be rehabbing at a clinic in a strip mall, next to a Chinese resturant
January 9th, 2013 at 1:33 PM
Right. Forgot about him. DAMMIT, now I’m all pissed off again.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:33 PM
Welcome to the world of never being wrong. AKA, a sports writer/blogger’s life.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:33 PM
To me, it felt exactly like I was watching Apollo Creed get killed by Drago.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:33 PM
LOL. What an assclown.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:33 PM
Archie Manning, a walking triage station in the early 1970s.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:34 PM
Seattle dominated that game over the last three quarters, Washington was just fortunate to get the fumble and one sack of Wilson that knocked them out of FG range to still be leading in the 4th…you change quarterbacks earlier and you have a better chance to build on the lead but they decided not to and suffered as a result
January 9th, 2013 at 1:35 PM
My first thought was “get the fumble you fucking quitter…don’t Sanchez the end of your season!”…then I saw the replay and apologized.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:36 PM
This is incorrect. No one on the whole damn team was doing anything. Should they all have been benched?
January 9th, 2013 at 1:37 PM
Joe Namath is
nowRIGHTLY perceived as a weak Hall of Fame choice by many; he was ONCE one of the best young quarterbacks in the game, but ultimately became famous and HOF bound by his “prediction” and because he played in New York.FIXED.
/Team ‘Fuck Broadway Joe’
January 9th, 2013 at 1:37 PM
Remember when Steve Grogan started a few games with a freaking neck brace?
January 9th, 2013 at 1:37 PM
Nah, that’s just where he got his knee-brace from.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:37 PM
Easy answer: The entire world, except for you.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:37 PM
you know what helps defenses a lot? an offense that can pick up first downs and drain the clock.
you know what helps an offense pick up first downs and drain the clock? a quarterback with two healthy legs.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:38 PM
Shannahan will think about the decision to keep him in after going up 14-0 for a long time.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:39 PM
Well, at least they have top draft choices to shore up the roster until he comes back full strength.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:39 PM
I’m no knee-brace expert, but isn’t it supposed to prevent your knee from crumbling into a billion pieces?
January 9th, 2013 at 1:40 PM
I got angry since I’d been spending most of that game saying “He shouldn’t be playing” (armchair diagnosis sure but such is watching football) and then it happened…nothing really shocking about it
Doesn’t help when the QB is throwing bounce passes and arm punts because he can’t fucking plant a leg…good lord
January 9th, 2013 at 1:40 PM
Bert Jones’ injuries even sapped his ability to crush a Miller Lite can.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:41 PM
He’s already acknowledged second guessing himself. But after going through Seattle like a hot knife through butter, and certainly not knowing the extent to which Griffin was hurting, why the hell would he take him out?
January 9th, 2013 at 1:41 PM
And the neck brace was two feet long to fit his long ass neck.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:41 PM
Has anyone talked about this asshole yet today?
January 9th, 2013 at 1:41 PM
He’ll probably be okay then this shit is going to be really gimpy when the realities of all those NFL hits start making the arthritis and shit terrible.
Is it me or do they never show John Elway walk around? He’s like basically using a walker at this point, right?
January 9th, 2013 at 1:41 PM
Settle down. It was clear as say that after he tweaked it in the first quarter that he was not right. Like…CLEAR AS DAY. He had a zone-read play where SEA was completely fooled and all he could do was limp to the sideline for 8 yards where he would have normally gone off for 30+.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:41 PM
He looked like Rudolph in Raging Rudolph after the other reindeer gave him the mobster treatment.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:41 PM
Still shocked RGIII wasn’t removed after that bunny-hop “run” out of bounds. At that point, it wasn’t just that he wasn’t himself, he wasn’t even Cade McNown.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:41 PM
It can only do so much…especially for your ACL.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:42 PM
Shoulda been paying attention to the game in front of him then
January 9th, 2013 at 1:42 PM
I’m no knee-brace expert, but isn’t it supposed to prevent your knee from crumbling into a billion pieces?
Who’s to say a knee-brace can’t make your leg stronger, faster, and better than before?
I might beat that one into the ground. We’ll see how it goes.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:42 PM
Because he looked as agile as Granpa Simpson. Easy decision for sane humans.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:42 PM
Earl Campbell and his wheelchair. Just sad.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:43 PM
AP’s year was good, just not great. In other years, would he have done as well? I’m inclined to say no…
/Queefer
January 9th, 2013 at 1:43 PM
Remember when Steve Grogan started a few games with a freaking neck brace?
that wasn’t a brace it was a turtle neck
January 9th, 2013 at 1:43 PM
Just out of curiosity, but did you turn the TV off after they went up 14-0?
January 9th, 2013 at 1:43 PM
Probably the most important player in the history of the league, but who’s counting
January 9th, 2013 at 1:44 PM
Please.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:44 PM
I cringed after the play in the red zone right before they scored where it looked like he might throw it away or run out of bounds, but then abruptly stopped and forced a shitty throw. His knee was jello after that.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:44 PM
maybe after seeing him hobble around and bounce passes? throwing an interception that was pretty all arm?
are you doing some Skip Bayless “contrarian for the sake of being contrarian” thing or what?
January 9th, 2013 at 1:44 PM
I liked the field, it reminded me of those great 90s playoff games in San Francisco.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:44 PM
People deny the Holocaust. I suppose there are those who are just as crazy about guns, too. Pretty fucked up for sure, though.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:45 PM
AP’s year was good, just not great. In other years, would he have done as well? I’m inclined to say no…
/Queefer
He didn’t really have a great year, he built stats that made it seem like he had a great year, but it was just am OK year if he hadn’t of built the stats that way…
January 9th, 2013 at 1:45 PM
That whole merger thing was overblown, right?
January 9th, 2013 at 1:46 PM
No but I remember when it was still socially taboo for a male to admit that something is wrong with him. Oh the halcyon days of 2013.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:46 PM
Griffin will be fine until he gets hit again like he did against the Ravens.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:46 PM
Everyone used to think the Earth was flat.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:46 PM
Exactly. I can’t believe there are ‘Skins fans who refuse to accept that leaving him in was boneheaded. Dude runs a sub 4.4 40 and was moving like John Madden in the 2nd quarter.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:46 PM
One less hall of fame speech he will have to make.
/TD’d
January 9th, 2013 at 1:46 PM
Probably the most important player in the history of the league, but who’s counting
GTFO w/ that nonsense.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:47 PM
Queefer would rag on Peterson for playing 12 games indoors this year so really he’s no Terrell Davis
January 9th, 2013 at 1:47 PM
People forget the Chiefs embarrassed the Vikings in the very next Super Bowl. While Len Dawson never made a guarantee, he still would’ve filled Namath’s spot nicely.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:47 PM
Damn, that dude on the far right in that commercial looks like a young Keith David. Wonder if it was him?
January 9th, 2013 at 1:47 PM
Shanny,
the only time you were right was when we were in the backfield bailing out your ass.
Regards,
TD and Elway
January 9th, 2013 at 1:48 PM
The merger did not happen because of Joe Namath. He was right place, right time. If he didn’t make his guarantee, it’s not like the AFL crumbles and football disappears.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:48 PM
Peterson is no Ki-Jana Carter
/Queefer’d
January 9th, 2013 at 1:48 PM
merger happened because of Clark Hunt, Al Davis, and Ralph Wilson
January 9th, 2013 at 1:48 PM
It was obvious he was shot during a few plays. I really noticed it on his long throws, especially that interception. His footwork was dreadful and he couldn’t plant.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:48 PM
Some schools in the South and in Kansas still teach that, I believe.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:49 PM
$nyder overu$e$ the field for other event$, and it is shit because of it. This pic is from Tuesday.
http://www.wusa9.com/images/640/360/2/assetpool/photogallery/237111/010813_fedexfield6_wusa.jpg
January 9th, 2013 at 1:49 PM
Dude runs a sub 4.4 40 and was moving like John Madden in the 2nd quarter.
Who’s to say he couldn’t come back faster, stronger, and better than John Madden?
January 9th, 2013 at 1:49 PM
People forget the Chiefs embarrassed the Vikings in the very next Super Bowl. While Len Dawson never made a guarantee, he still would’ve filled Namath’s spot nicely.
And as much as I hate to give this guy credit: Al Davis should get some.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:49 PM
great post, lisk, this basically sums up how I feel about my second favorite sports figure ever. I knew there was some risk associated with bob’s style if he got into a system that encouraged QB runs (he did). Its aggravating to see because I know he is (at least in college, and for much of this year) a great passing QB that can run. It is not the other way around, which people seem to be forgetting.
He may not be the same, but as I said this morning, that could be good for his career. Briles throttled down the designed runs griffin’s JR year, and he became this super accurate QB that threw for a ton of yards and had a deep ball better than anyone. He can be that guy again if Shanny would not keep calling QB draws.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:49 PM
Sounds like folks on the Twitter
January 9th, 2013 at 1:50 PM
The South still think they will rise again
January 9th, 2013 at 1:50 PM
What with McCarron’s gal hogging the spotlight, sousedbergin’s girlfriend was nearly overlooked.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:50 PM
I said this in the Roundup, or something similar: The way Griffin was moving out there after the second TD it became obvious he was ineffective and he could get injured further. That was all ignored, and they lost the game and he got injured worse. Of course the Skins will come out and defend the move, but it doesn’t mean it was the right one to make.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:50 PM
Len Dawson didn’t give AFL credibility right off the bat like Namath did when he signed with the Jets. He was probably the most heralded qb ever at that time
January 9th, 2013 at 1:51 PM
Who’s to say he couldn’t come back faster, stronger, and better than Little ‘Yerry Seinfeld?
January 9th, 2013 at 1:51 PM
poindexter, less than 100% is fine. half of 100% is not. dude was a cripple
January 9th, 2013 at 1:51 PM
For those disputing sctrojans, what player was more important historically than Namath?
January 9th, 2013 at 1:52 PM
Wonder if Dilfer still thinks RGIII needs to learn how to play through injuries to be a great quarterback.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:52 PM
Largely, yes. But they weren’t players
January 9th, 2013 at 1:52 PM
Got it. Let me know when you (or any of you armchair coaches) become employed by an NFL team since your football acumen is so extraordinary. I don’t know how you and Queefer are not GM’s or coaches by now. Oh wait, yes I do…
January 9th, 2013 at 1:52 PM
Actually the Namath bit is vital. I’ve alluded to this before. If the Jets don’t win III, pro football landscape is decidedly different today. It crushes the (valid) stats narrative but this was a key time.
He also went to the Jets over the NFL team and that was a huge deal at the time too. Regardless, the Suzy Kolber thing gets him. Legend.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:52 PM
Looking at Namath’s numbers outside of the context of the era he played in, along with a healthy hatred of New York, is going to make you hate that Joe Namath is in the Hall of Fame.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:52 PM
Unitas. They guy he beat.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:53 PM
Say that to Jim Brown’s face.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:53 PM
like I’ve said before, you never hear the people who played with or against him, or actually were around to watch him play call him overrated and not worthy of the Hall. It’s always the youngins with the shiny calculators in their back pockets.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:54 PM
I thought they changed their stance to ‘The North will fall below us’
January 9th, 2013 at 1:54 PM
Going to need to hear this explained
January 9th, 2013 at 1:54 PM
You don’t speak for me
It makes for a weird semantics thing though since if I am to troll the Vikings for never having won a championship does that one still count since it was an NFL title?
January 9th, 2013 at 1:54 PM
Man…when you run into these people and they casually drop words and phrases (war of northern aggression being my favorite) I so badly want to talk to them about the civil war.
So was Tim Tebow in his day.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:54 PM
np3, when you worried about him did you worry about his head or his knees?
January 9th, 2013 at 1:54 PM
His “passer rating+” (or whatever it’s called…similar to ERA+) is 102. Not really Hall-worthy, but I’m sure it was dragged down by the end of his career when he could barely walk.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:54 PM
Poindexter is the reason Altemeyer invented the Right Wing Authoritarianism scale.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:54 PM
Rudy.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:54 PM
Namath’s historical importance comes from being one of the first bombs away passers, his numbers get compared to guys today but him throwing for 4,000 yards when he did was like someone rushing for 2,500 today
January 9th, 2013 at 1:54 PM
No. He was not
January 9th, 2013 at 1:54 PM
the comments at the bottom of that story make me
January 9th, 2013 at 1:55 PM
m
January 9th, 2013 at 1:55 PM
If you haven’t seen it, I recommend the HBO documentary on Namath. It explains all of this (even the Suzy Kolber bit) nicely.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:55 PM
Suit yourself. I guess it wasn’t as clear as I thought.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:55 PM
np3, when you worried about him did you worry about his head or his knees?
both, but mainly his knees.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:56 PM
There was no certainty that Super Bowl IV was going down if the Colts gave the Jets a beatdown. In most liklihood, it wouldnt of happened.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:56 PM
Richard Gnida is the most important limo driver in NHL history, that doesn’t mean he deserves a Hall of Fame spot.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:56 PM
Holy shit… the identifying pic of her rioting is awesome.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:56 PM
Holy shit.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:56 PM
30 year franchise. 12 superbowl victories. 20 Superbowl Appearances. I had a strong ability to be able to flip 2nd and 3rd round picks for top 5 picks.
/Madden 2000
January 9th, 2013 at 1:56 PM
Well, he beat Earl Morrall AND Unitas, but you are correct.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:56 PM
Poindexter agrees with Shanahan? I love fanboys.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:57 PM
Not Shanny’s fault Griffin thinks he’s invincible and won’t get down. Russell Wilson demonstrated perfectly that you can run, even in the middle of the field, and just get the fuck down instead of taking a big hit.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:57 PM
namath threw more int than td. has to be in because of his impact and publicity value
January 9th, 2013 at 1:58 PM
cool appeal to authority bro.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:58 PM
/Dennis Miller’d
January 9th, 2013 at 1:58 PM
m
Pretty much
January 9th, 2013 at 1:58 PM
Even Bud Kilmer still had supporters after winning the district title I would imagine
January 9th, 2013 at 1:58 PM
you would think that sites that require you to comment with your Facebook profile would limit some of that but I guess not.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:58 PM
i enjoyed the namath doc mainly bc i had never seen bama footage of him and for the swinging 60s footage
that dude could move pre-knee injuries
January 9th, 2013 at 1:59 PM
Nobody that I know old enough to remember that counts it as anything. They’re all too busy stewing about Drew Pearson’s push-off in 1975.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:59 PM
Earl Morrall was the Colts QB in III, Unitas did some mop-up duty.
January 9th, 2013 at 1:59 PM
I actually meant to mention Steve Grogan as well. He had 12 rushing TD’s at age 23, over 500 yards rushing at age 25. Multiple knee injuries and neck injuries made him into the wily veteran that came in later in his career, but he was an athletic stud as a young player.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:00 PM
Killer reference. This is all I think about when Varsity Blue is mentioned.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:01 PM
so Shanahan, the head coach (and “boss”) of the team, is totally blameless for not recognizing that and doing something about it?
get the fuck outta here.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:01 PM
Husker, answered you in last post. Was at lunch
January 9th, 2013 at 2:01 PM
/Coop’d
//Because this wasn’t a video of the whipped cream bikini you see
January 9th, 2013 at 2:01 PM
No one elected to the HOF this year. This is unfuckingbelieveable.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:02 PM
Another great moment in Varsity Blues history.
(F-bomb alert)
January 9th, 2013 at 2:02 PM
Dude, certainly it was clear he was hurting. But it was just as clear during the Philly and Dallas games as well. Can you link to you and Fatboy’s comments criticizing Shanny for playing him then? Love that there are so many of you that know more than lifelong NFL guys, yet for some crazy reason are not getting paid for your knowledge. The level of delusion you are operating under should be a red flag.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:02 PM
anytime i see the word merger related to sports i think of the deal the aba owners made with the nba for a percentage of future revenue
legends cashing checks 40 years later
January 9th, 2013 at 2:03 PM
Griffin point that isn’t getting enough run IMO: why didn’t Andrews pull Griffin once it was clear he couldn’t move?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:03 PM
Saw it. Thanks
Does that happen often?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:04 PM
ryan longwell to kick for seahags this weekend
no HOF, breaking news. first since 96
January 9th, 2013 at 2:04 PM
Fatboy?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:04 PM
what, duckworth’d??
January 9th, 2013 at 2:04 PM
what, duckworth’d??
January 9th, 2013 at 2:04 PM
LOL Schilling got more votes than Clemens
January 9th, 2013 at 2:04 PM
The BBWAA is just the worst.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:05 PM
Three people deserve near equal blame to me
1) Andrews- has authority to overrule Shanahan at any time
2) Shanahan- should’ve pulled Griffin for effectiveness alone
3) Griffin- absurd to think he’s better on one leg than Cousins, who has proved he is capable
January 9th, 2013 at 2:05 PM
CHAMPIONSHIP!!
January 9th, 2013 at 2:05 PM
glass houses, stones, etc.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:05 PM
I’d rather have no one make it than for the crappy sportwriters to vote Jack Morris in.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:05 PM
Fatboy?
hernia
January 9th, 2013 at 2:06 PM
ryan longwell to kick for seahags this weekend
CHAMPIONSHIP!!
i knew someone would pick up on the real news in that comment
January 9th, 2013 at 2:07 PM
Not Shanny’s fault Griffin thinks he’s invincible and won’t get down.
nope, but the playcalling is.
i am pissed this is the conversation we are having about RG. so pissed.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:07 PM
Gotta support Coach
And by this rationale you’re not qualified to speak on football matters either so since you’re not living in the denial like the rest of us might I suggest a different site to enjoy
January 9th, 2013 at 2:07 PM
This. I hope the backlash doesn’t result in a bunch of extra votes for him next year.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:08 PM
Studio Commenter mover right there.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:08 PM
And what is the “something”? He just has to learn when to get down, that’s all. Are you saying Shanny has never told him he may want to get down and stop fighting for every extra yard? get the fuck outta here.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:09 PM
At least Bagwell’s still trending upward
January 9th, 2013 at 2:09 PM
right, my point is that Unitas was the NFL. even at that point.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:10 PM
I hate Clemens more than most and enjoyed quite a bit of booing Bonds during his career but keeping either one of them out of the HOF is just silly to me.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:10 PM
I think we’re having another Queefer moment like we did with Saban yesterday.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:10 PM
and Unitas remained “the best qb of all-time” until the last decade or so, to many.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:10 PM
Getting down would’ve prevented the initial injury, but I fail to see how it pertains to Sunday
January 9th, 2013 at 2:11 PM
A haircut you can set your watch to as well
January 9th, 2013 at 2:11 PM
Pete Rose isn’t in the hall of fame. That alone proves how ridiculous baseball is with things like this.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:11 PM
call fewer plays that put Griffin in that position? play a quarterback that has two knees?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:11 PM
Lots of people forget Earl also QB’d the Dolphins for most of their 17-0 season because Griese was hurt and didn’t come back until the AFC title game.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:12 PM
To those in comas during Montana’s career
January 9th, 2013 at 2:12 PM
while i don’t agree with the reason voters aren’t putting in clemens and bonds, i understand the logic. fucking joke that Piazza isn’t getting in.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:13 PM
Otto Graham will always have his defenders for that title.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:13 PM
Pete Rose isn’t in the hall of fame.
Pete Rose is actually convicted of the things that keep him out of the HOF.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:13 PM
i don’t know about that. we don’t have links to look at the mid to late 90s for these discussions, but Unitas was pretty universal until his records started to go down to Marino and Favre.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:13 PM
Nope. Andrews is a consultant. Shanny has final say. 5% Griffin’s fault for lying (but understandable), 95% Shanahan for being a dipshit.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:14 PM
fixed
January 9th, 2013 at 2:14 PM
Pete Rose isn’t in the hall of fame. That alone proves how ridiculous baseball is with things like this.
i’d have no problem with mcgwire and sosa got into the HOF
as long as rose did too
January 9th, 2013 at 2:14 PM
But Favre isn’t in the conversation…
Marino is on the fringe, I guess
January 9th, 2013 at 2:14 PM
I support putting Rose in once he’s dead
January 9th, 2013 at 2:15 PM
Wrong. I’m not the one (in hindsight mind you), saying an NFL coach doesn’t know what he’s doing. You are as bad as Czaban thinking he’s a better play caller than Kyle. It’s just laughable that you think watching football on TV makes you a qualified decision maker. LOL. That was good, I needed that laugh right there.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:15 PM
So Griese was injured but still got his starting job back. This angers Drew Bledsoe.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:15 PM
fucking joke that Piazza isn’t getting in.
homophobic BWOA
January 9th, 2013 at 2:15 PM
Pete Rose has never had his name on the ballot because he is banned by the commissioner’s office. Writers have no say in whether or not he gets in.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:15 PM
I am too, but I couldn’t stand the idiocy any longer.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:16 PM
I thought Andrews was the team doctor. But whoever is the team doctor can overrule Shanahan at any time. So that guy
January 9th, 2013 at 2:16 PM
and Unitas remained “the best qb of all-time” until the last decade or so, to many.
Yet Otto Graham was named the QB on all the NFL 75th Anniversary team. Eat it Unitas.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:16 PM
How old ARE you?
/WTF is a “watch”?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:17 PM
I support putting Rose in once he’s dead
i saw promos for the reality show….he is a bloated corpse now
January 9th, 2013 at 2:18 PM
LOLz
January 9th, 2013 at 2:18 PM
Pete Rose has never had his name on the ballot because he is banned by the commissioner’s office.
thanks for reminding me that integrity is involved
January 9th, 2013 at 2:19 PM
I support putting Pete Rose in if his head is in a jar set atop a giant robot, a la Futurama
January 9th, 2013 at 2:19 PM
I support putting Rose in once he’s dead
weak. First off, your “wait til he’s dead is cowardice hidden as snark. Second, you cant bet on sports. Its one of the tenets of being a pro athlete. Get the fuck outta here.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:19 PM
So was Unitas
January 9th, 2013 at 2:19 PM
hmmm
so you think you know more about playing football than the actual players do. why don’t you go strap on a helmet?
bonus!
you also know more about owning and operating a football team.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:19 PM
Vez, I thought you were a “first ballot or GTFO” proponent. Neither got in on their first ballot.
/ FFIW, I lump McGwire into the Dave Kingman category of non-HOFer
January 9th, 2013 at 2:19 PM
I am sure midget Snyder will be calm and rational inthe aftermath of the RGIII debacle.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:20 PM
No
January 9th, 2013 at 2:20 PM
I might very well be wrong here, but I believe that unless there’s a concussion situation, the team doctor doesn’t have final say on a player’s game status. Unless the team gives him that authority, which the Redskins don’t.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:20 PM
Reminds me of when Jerry Richardson fired his head field maintenance guy and put his son in charge. That field was a complete embarrassment the next season.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:21 PM
I’m on team put Rose in. Great, great player. Couldn’t care less about his indiscretions. Put them on his plaque
January 9th, 2013 at 2:21 PM
Pete Rose is actually convicted of the things that keep him out of the HOF.
idk if you are saying that you don’t think bonds, mcgwire, sosa, et al took peds or not, but regardless….what bugs me about the rose situation is that gambling is worse than using chemicals to be a better player.
because the rule is posted in every locker room? oh, ok, absolutely hammer offenders for life
January 9th, 2013 at 2:21 PM
Yet Cobb and Lajoie are both in the HOF, and both were suspended during their careers for betting.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:22 PM
you cant bet on sports. Its one of the tenets of being a pro athlete.
Worse – he was the manager! He managed games he was betting on! I know he’s got a track record as a liar and a degenerate but surely we can all believe him when he says he never attempted to influence a game outcome to win a bet, right?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:22 PM
I believe the comment I was responding to was talking about Shanny’s use of him all year or something.
As for Sunday, I was cringing all game long like the rest of you, and Shanny was too apparently. But it wasn’t exactly a black and white decision. if it was, no one would agree with him, yet all GM’s coaches and players do. You’ve won the previous two games with him injured and you’re winning this one. I imagine he was just hoping to get through this game and his luck ran out. If the Skins had won, i doubt the choruses of “Shanny is an idiot” would have been as loud. You know, kind of how they were non existent after the previous two games when he was limping around.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:22 PM
Team docs have long has veto power in the NFL. Whether the doc is too intimidated by the coach to exercise that power is another story
January 9th, 2013 at 2:22 PM
It wasn’t hindsight when I spent the second and third quarters saying “What the hell are they doing? His knee’s shredded”…doesn’t make me qualified to coach an NFL team but for this one instance, I was right and the coach was wrong
January 9th, 2013 at 2:22 PM
A watch is a fashion accessory to let the women, I want to push my genitalia in, know that I am of good stock.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:22 PM
Marino isn’t the greatest ever, but he is one of the greatest. no fringe about it.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:24 PM
Agreed with “one of”. Was referring to greatest though
January 9th, 2013 at 2:24 PM
Nada I know, but there’s an obvious line of demarcation re: betting with Kennesaw and the ruling on 1919 BlackSox. If one wants to cling to trivialties, a case for anybody in the HOF is possible.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:24 PM
I’m on team put Rose in. Great, great player. Couldn’t care less about his indiscretions. Put them on his plaque
i mean, what is more of a baseball record than most hits?
plus, banning should be rstricted to violations of the game between the lines, not away from it. sure, his gambling may have affected how he managed, but even that to me is nowhere near the trouble caused by the ped users
because of them, everything is now questioned every time this voting takes place. longtime fans of the game care less than they used to and it hurts them
/not one of them, but i understand
January 9th, 2013 at 2:24 PM
I’d have no problem with pizza for dinner tonight
January 9th, 2013 at 2:25 PM
Sorry, it was Tris Speaker and Cobb, not Lajoie.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:25 PM
Oh, I thought that would be the most up-to-date iGadget. And a 5-series BMW.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:25 PM
I was referring to that specific game. if you really wanted to play him injured, you should probably start calling plays that don’t involve him running around. that pertains to the two previous games Griffin played (that all of the Shanahan supporters point to). it’s almost as though playing two games on a bad knee makes it worse and opens the risk for increased injury.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:25 PM
sure, his gambling may have affected how he managed, but even that to me is nowhere near the trouble caused by the ped users
Does it make you feel better to know that he used PEDs also, then?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:26 PM
How old ARE you?
/WTF is a “watch”?
An elegant solution to know what Ric Flair references as “Rolex Time”.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:27 PM
You know, kind of how they were non existent after the previous two games when he was limping around.
because he wasn’t limping that badly!
/exclamation pts > all caps
January 9th, 2013 at 2:28 PM
People are blaming voters because a bunch of underachievers had to pore some pharmaceuticals down their veins? Fuck these players. Fuck those pussies looking away in the lockerroom. This is on them. The voters have to clean up their fucking mess.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:28 PM
Good afternoon woman in supermarket. Let me ignore you with my phone. Perhaps you could follow me out to my car so that you may then be interested in me.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:29 PM
I know I’m splitting hairs here, but is this codified in the league rulebook or is it simply a tradition (or common sense) adhered to by the teams?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:29 PM
Does it make you feel better to know that he used PEDs also, then?
puppy uppers are candy compared to horse DNA. if they would have had 5-hour energy back then, would there be an issue looking back?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:29 PM
It’s not like people won’t know Clemens, Rose, Bonds are because they aren’t in Cooperstown. Can’t have your cake and eat it too.
/now TampaBo on the otherhand….
January 9th, 2013 at 2:29 PM
Well yes, the death thing was just because I think he’s a prick and don’t want to see him enjoy it but he’d be getting enshrined as a player and I don’t know if there’s evidence that he threw a game…put him in and make note of the trangressions so those who visit for decades to come will know it
January 9th, 2013 at 2:30 PM
Do you not remember him running against dallas? Just enough to be effective, and he was getting down like he should have. It was perfect, he took no hits.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:31 PM
The item that ultimately caused Hans Gruber to fall to his death.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:32 PM
Didn’t even take a hit this time to cause him to limp off in the 1st quarter…shoulda been a warning sign to Coach, but here we are
January 9th, 2013 at 2:34 PM
Vez, I thought you were a “first ballot or GTFO” proponent. Neither got in on their first ballot.
i am. i was making a point about what i’d trade to have rose in. at this point it really doesn;t matter if seventh ballot or ped users or gamblers get in because football’s ratings are better
January 9th, 2013 at 2:37 PM
fuck the people who enabled and profited from it.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:37 PM
It was perfect, he took no hits.
yes, if perfect means ‘not skipping’
January 9th, 2013 at 2:38 PM
he was still running on a bad knee. you don’t have to get hit to harm your knee.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:39 PM
Come on man. If you are going to tell me you would have pulled him right then, I simply do not believe you. At halftime should he have been evaluated? Hell yes. Why Andrews didn’t I don’t know.
I guess I just accept Shanny’s reasoning, and you guys don’t. Dude was in a very tough spot and the choice he made didn’t work.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:40 PM
it’s just that you seem to be blaming literally everyone except Mike Shanahan here.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:42 PM
I gave it another series or two because it was painfully obvious that the guy couldn’t play…sorry Coach couldn’t see the same, maybe he’ll send nice flowers to RGIII’s recovery room
January 9th, 2013 at 2:43 PM
I don’t think it takes a Monday Morning QB to recognize that RGIII was on the verge of serious injury before his knee slipped out of place. Him dragging his leg in the first quarter, and the subsequent bouncing of passes afterwards should have been enough
January 9th, 2013 at 2:44 PM
*”before” in place of “because”
January 9th, 2013 at 2:48 PM
Because I don’t think he deserves blame. It’s just a tough break and sometimes shit happens. If we had gotten through that game like the previous two, there is no issue. Just didn’t go that way. I can understand why players agree with Shanny, but why do you think other coaches and GM’s do as well?
Think back to the Nats situation and how our illustrious EIC and coaches and GM’s in baseball were saying how idiotic it was. Seems only the media and blog commenters know what is right and wrong.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:50 PM
Then why don’t any football people agree with you?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:54 PM
That sums it up best for me.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:54 PM
Not sure who was polled other than people you want to agree with, but coaches don’t usually break rank and question the decisions of the colleagues
January 9th, 2013 at 2:54 PM
If you could post the reaction of every football person and their thoughts on this situation then I may be inclined to believe you.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:57 PM
So a player they mortgaged their future on was kept in the game despite being ineffectual and seriously injured. Now he has major surgery. What in your estimation is a bad coaching decision? Could there be such a thing?
Racists swapped first round picks, trade away 2013 and 2014 First round picks, a later second round pick, revamped their offense around the player and then ruined his knee 8 months later by keeping him in a game in which he was ineffectual.
His knee was not wrenched out, it was so damaged that merely bending down to catch a errant snap ruined it. The fuck are you talking about guy.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:01 PM
because the NFL is insular and might lend itself well to groupthink?
I understand that there would have been backlash if Cousins came in and the Redskins lost, but those people would have been wrong, just as the people who bashed Jay Cutler back in the NFC Championship Game were wrong.
no head coach should be making decisions based on potential fan backlash as opposed to what is best for his team or for the health of his players. I could see Shanahan maybe hearing multiple different things in the sideline — Griffin saying he should stay in, Andrews saying he should come out, and various other assistants and team doctors taking various sides — but as head coach it’s ultimately on him to make the final call. a lot of people watching were saying that Griffin didn’t look right and that he looked far worse than in the prior two weeks, and there had to have been people on the sidelines (hell, maybe even Shanahan himself) who thought the same thing.
he wound up making the wrong decision — the Redskins lost, and the star quarterback needed reconstructive knee surgery — and has tried to absolve himself of all blame.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:02 PM
The Strausburg shutdown was preventative based on an inning count that seemed arbitrary, and was used to shut down a seemingly healthy pitcher in the middle of a pennant race. RGIII on the other hand is the case of a without a doubt injured player, who obviously to anyone who watched, other than his coach and team doctors, suffered further damage to his knee in the first quarter of the game in which he later suffered catastrophic damage.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:49 PM
Every doctor interviewed says you cannot come back at 100%. AP was a special case because there was no other damage to his knee structure. RGIII has a knee that was a mess coming in. It does not look good for him to come back as a mobile, running quarterback, but this might actually extend his career if he is as good a passer as everyone wants to say he is.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:54 PM
I’m not sure. Perhaps Lisk can answer that
January 9th, 2013 at 4:12 PM
But they are similar in that you have the option to shutdown a player at the potential risk of ending your season prematurely. The Nats thought they should, Shanny thought they should not. I actually would have been ok with him pulling Griffin in the 4th qtr. I am just as ok with his reasoning as to why he didn’t. I had confidence that Griffin would do enough for us to win.
How did he try to absolve himself from blame? Seems he spoke honestly about how he made the decision he made, and even admitted to some second guessing. Not sure what you mean there.
January 9th, 2013 at 4:14 PM
The blame question was for knifeyspooney…