Baseball Hall of Fame: Congratulations to No One
For the eighth time in history, the Baseball Writers did not elect a single player to the Hall of Fame. It is the first time since 1996 that the BBWA did not elect a single player (the Veteran’s Committee selected four players that year).
Craig Biggio had the most votes, coming up 39 votes short of selection at 68.2% of the vote. Jack Morris was second, but did not see his vote total increase, and has one more year remaining on the ballot. Jeff Bagwell, Mike Piazza, and Tim Raines rounded out the top five in voting.
The Steroid Era, and the BBWA’s current response and wrangling and moralizing over that, are the clear cause for no new Hall of Famers. Barry Bonds (36.2%) and Roger Clemens (37.6%) were in the first year on the ballot, and got some support, but were clearly left off many ballots.
I find the whole process a bit ridiculous. Writers get up to ten votes. I’ll never get the whole “first ballot” thing. Either a guy is a Hall of Famer or not. Vote for him if you think there are up to ten worthy candidates. I’ll never understand how the same writers can determine one to be Hall of Famer one year, after not thinking that before.
Enjoy the ceremonies in Cooperstown. Congratulations, BBWA, you are indeed the stars of the show, because no players will be there to take it away from you.
[photo via USA Today Sports Images]
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January 9th, 2013 at 2:18 PM
I hope they still do a HOF ceremony in Cooperstown, only it’s done like this.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:20 PM
Me too, Lisk. Me too.
It’d be a big step if they made the ballots public like they’ve done with the Cy Young and MVP voting. That way the guy who voted for Aaron Sele can have his vote revoked and given to someone who takes this a bit more seriously.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:21 PM
Increased open-mindness toward advanced statistics, or not so advanced ones like OBP?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:24 PM
Exactly. Baseball writers are the worst.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:25 PM
Exactly. I give a lot of credit to the sportswriters who have embraced advanced statistics and in turn started supporting players who they didn’t in the past.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:25 PM
The BBWAA is a joke
January 9th, 2013 at 2:26 PM
Lofton didn’t get in? Bullshit.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:27 PM
Those that chose to reveal their ballots. Not even half of them have Barry Bonds on there. It’s just 101 of the 600 or so ballots out there.
Barry Bonds was the BBWAA Player of the decade for 1990-99. Prior to PED allegations/suspected use.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:28 PM
This.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:28 PM
This would have been a great year for all the anti-steroids voters to make character a real issue and vote Dale Murphy in.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:29 PM
Someone voted for Aaron Sele.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:29 PM
How many blank ballots were there?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:29 PM
Since the media votes, it’s all about the narrative. Contrast this with the year Jeter is eligible and the color stains that I’m sure will be on those ballots.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:30 PM
If this were only true.
Historically, writers have not voted for guys on the first ballot for all sorts of arbitrary reasons.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:30 PM
No Rising Young Star Nate McLouth?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:33 PM
This is something I’ve never understood. They use it to basically rank other HOF candidates I guess. “Oh, he’s a HOFer, just not a FIRST BALLOT one.” As Lisk said, you either are or you aren’t.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:33 PM
The most idiotic being the “no one should get 100% of the vote” reasoning.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:34 PM
I dont have a problem with this for a few reasons. One, PED use changed a lot of people’s opinion about the guy. Baseball didn’t do anything about his cheating, so this is a recourse. And two, these writers know they have 14 more years to elect Bonds, Clemens and Palmerio. This is just a stupid power play.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:34 PM
Commence noted assclown, Michael Jack Schmidt, pushing for an Induction Recommittment Ceremony.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:35 PM
It still amazes me that there were voters who considered Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, Teddy Ballgame and Cy Young unworthy of the HOF.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:36 PM
This.
I like a writer being able to change their mind and vote for a player they didn’t for in their first year of eligibility. However, if a writer doesn’t vote simply to “punish” a player when first eligible, for whatever reason, than that is wrong.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:36 PM
No HOFers? What’s next, Rose Bowl not on 1/1?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:36 PM
Paul Hagen won the Spinks award. There will be a ceremony for that.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:36 PM
Enjoy the ceremonies in Cooperstown. Congratulations, BBWA, you are indeed the stars of the show, because no players will be there to take it away from you.
They’ll be the toast of Cooperstown!
January 9th, 2013 at 2:37 PM
Exactly. Baseball writers are the worst.
They really are. Followed closely by football writers.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:37 PM
I hope the HoF institutes major changes after this mockery. There are at least three no-doubt HoFers, and six more that you can make excellent arguments. Any writer who hasn’t covered baseball in three years should have their vote stripped. New BBWAA writers shouldn’t have to wait 10 years to vote, reduce it to 3. Can’t wait for the Jaffe’s, Klaw’s, Sheenan’s and Kharl’s of the world to able to vote.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:37 PM
For the right price Joe Montana will show up
January 9th, 2013 at 2:38 PM
I assume Julio Franco receiving 6 votes sets a record for active players?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:38 PM
Baseball didn’t do anything about his cheating, so this is a recourse
Not sure why the BBWAA have a leg to stand on here, though.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:38 PM
I can certainly get down with this. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for voters to change their mind.
But Morris is getting in next year, right? Just because it’s his final chance? That kinda shit is stupid. Either Morris is a HOFer or he isn’t (and I think he should be).
January 9th, 2013 at 2:38 PM
Whatever happened to Bill Conlin fucking all those children?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:38 PM
Trout for MVP
January 9th, 2013 at 2:39 PM
how did Lee Smith get more votes than Edgar Martinez? assholes.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:40 PM
Many of these guys view themselves as preservers of baseball heritage. They don’t want the hall sullied with steroid users or advanced stats heroes. Blah blah blah. This is their way of righting a perceived wrong.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:40 PM
I’m sure they feel deceived for all those MVP and Cy Young Awards given out during the 90s to the unclean…plus this now gives them column material to feign moral outrage all over again about steroid users
January 9th, 2013 at 2:40 PM
That’s hilarious, I remember this now.
too funny dude
January 9th, 2013 at 2:40 PM
Whatever happened to Bill Conlin fucking all those children?
Is he the one with the collection of dirty underwear?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:41 PM
Didn’t move the needle.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:41 PM
His son is going to play at Tulane.
Tulane.
For that alone, he should be stripped of his HOF membership.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:41 PM
They have to, Paul Hagen’s still getting inducted. Oh, and here’s what he says about this:
“If I knew definitively who used steroids and who didn’t, I would not vote for candidates who did. But I don’t. Nobody else does, either. And I’m not going to turn my ballot into a guessing game. Further, the integrity clause is only one of the criteria listed, one that not all current Hall of Famers have been held to.”
January 9th, 2013 at 2:41 PM
As I said earlier: Rogers Hornsby may be the greatest second baseman of all time. He was eligible in 1936 and wasn’t elected until ’42. There are numerous other examples of this. It’s the nature of the Hall of Fame.
I personally worry more about unworthy people being let in (Blyleven, Morris? Santo, Schalk, et al) than unworthy ones (ummm…who? Rose maybe?) being left out.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:41 PM
Many of these guys view themselves as preservers of baseball heritage. They don’t want the hall sullied with steroid users or advanced stats heroes.
No, I get that but they could have, you know, written about the shit while it was happening and they were being paid to report on it.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:41 PM
$8mm fine, 4 year bowl ban, loss of 13 scholarships…as is tradition.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:42 PM
No, that’s Al Roker.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:42 PM
I think every single baseball player that makes an All Star team should get put in the Hall of Fame. Then once a player retires we vote them out.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:42 PM
Wow.
Conlin is Der Kaiser?
/humanized
January 9th, 2013 at 2:42 PM
Mike Dyer voted for Todd Walker. Yes, this Todd Walker. He did not vote for Craig Biggio.
I think we just say that 36.2% of the voters are reasonable and leave it at that.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:43 PM
I’ve always gotten the impression that baseball writers so badly wanted to be authors who spin tales of folly and perseverance and such. Instead they talk about baseball, so they try to flower it up as much as they can and treat the game like it’s the end all, be all.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:43 PM
So Bobby Higginson has a shot.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:43 PM
*worthy ones being left out
January 9th, 2013 at 2:44 PM
The baseball writers who did this are the same people who turned away from their reporting obligations when 70% plus of baseball was using uppers and steroids.
And they decide that some “bacne” is as egregious as the racists, drug users, steroids users, spitballers and drunks that are already in the HoF. What a bunch of cowards and frauds.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:44 PM
That was in retaliation for calling Jimmy Dugan a talking pile of pig shit, after Jimmy’s parents drove all the way from Michigan to see him play.
/ And Jimmy didn’t cry
January 9th, 2013 at 2:44 PM
No Mickey Tettleton = no moral authority. The HOF is bunk
January 9th, 2013 at 2:45 PM
Biggio
January 9th, 2013 at 2:45 PM
Is the HOF bound to the BBWA or can they find a different electorate?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:45 PM
Well that shouldn’t surprise anyone.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:47 PM
There were five blank ballots for whoever asked.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:47 PM
I’m not going to get into it…but he is not a HoFer. I hope that with the inclusion of Maddux, Glavine and Mussina next year that he drops to 50%. Overrated to the extreme.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:47 PM
I’ll never understand how the same writers can determine one to be Hall of Famer one year, after not thinking that before.
You’re absolutely right. The passage of time has never given a clearer perspective on events of the past.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:48 PM
That’s Todd Walker, NCAA legend.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:48 PM
Well said
January 9th, 2013 at 2:48 PM
One could even say it’s a tradition unlike any other.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:48 PM
I think the Fire Joe Morgan guys said that Conlin once got into it with them over e-mail and, in an attempt to brag and look like a bigshot, showed them photos of his condo. they said that the condo looked kinda sad and they felt bad for him.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:48 PM
There were five blank ballots for whoever asked.
Cowardice. If you accept to be a voter you gotta take the good, you take the bad, you blah blah blah there you have the facts of life.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:49 PM
I feel this way too. The Hall should be for those who were undoubtably great.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:49 PM
Conlin had his tubes tied?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:49 PM
Mad Dog and Glavine, yes. Moose, no.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:49 PM
Piazza has some words to share.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:49 PM
Mussina? Get that shit out of here.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:50 PM
As I’m getting married the weekend before the HOF induction ceremony on Cooperstown, this pleases me immensely. Maybe now I can renegotiate those ridiculous hotel rates we were given.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:50 PM
Could have been worse, he could have shown them a picture of his condom.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:50 PM
Baseball didn’t do anything about his cheating, so this is a recourse. And two, these writers know they have 14 more years to elect Bonds, Clemens and Palmerio. This is just a stupid power play.
ugh, first off, they are writers not psuedo commisioners. second, many of them shoukdnt have a vote. third, a system that lets guys be eligible so long
so, futre HOF votes….frank thomas, jim thome? first ballot for hurt?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:50 PM
Conlin likes his toast dry?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:50 PM
Denial.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:51 PM
Mike Dyer voted for Todd Walker. Yes, this Todd Walker. He did not vote for Craig Biggio.
Mike Dyer clearly deserves to die in a fire of some type.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:51 PM
Piazza is only upset because he thinks we’re talking about Fame the musical.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:51 PM
Conlin has TWO junk drawers in the kitchen?
January 9th, 2013 at 2:51 PM
PhillyMantis I agree the BBWAA writers failed to cover roids. I worked in bsaeball briefly at this time and roids were evident. But I feel your stance (vote them in) is a case of two wrongs make a right. I disagree.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:52 PM
280 wins, 123 ERA+ (compared to Morris’ 105 ERA+), 3.58 K/BB, 3.68 ERA. That’s a borderline HoFer. He won’t be first year, however he will get in over time.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:52 PM
Maddux and Glavine next year will likely be the first teammates voted in together since Whitey Ford and the Mick in 1974.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:52 PM
Conlin likes his toast dry?
yeah, his butt toast
/descendants
January 9th, 2013 at 2:53 PM
I’d recommend a bed and breakfast place just down the road from the Hall. Unless consumating your marriage in a room much like your grandmothers and with other residents isn’t your thing
January 9th, 2013 at 2:53 PM
enjoy!
January 9th, 2013 at 2:54 PM
My take on the steroids issue:
If you’re gonna vote out players who used steroids, then vote out all the players who used “greenies” back in the ’60s and ’70s.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:54 PM
how did Lee Smith get more votes than Edgar Martinez? assholes.
This.
I understand that he was a DH but in a sport where one of the biggest factors in winning is reaching base and you do it at a rate (41.8%) that is 21st most all time (just ahead of Stan Musial) I think you deserve to be more seriously considered for the “Hall of Fame”.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:54 PM
Is it a baseball themed wedding? Or do you live near Cooperstown.
We took a vacation to Cooperstown and surrounding areas when I was probably 11. The Hall of Fame was a magical place for me at that age. Would love to go back.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:55 PM
Steroid testing didn’t begin until 2005…I don’t see it being an issue. Barry Bonds is the best player I have ever seen in my life. A top 3 player of all time. How he didn’t get 100% of the vote is pure bullshit.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:56 PM
If Rock Raines finally gets in, then he and Frank Thomas would qualify for this as well.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:57 PM
His highest win total ever was when he was 39. Show me photos of the skin on his back and I may be inclined to vote for him.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:57 PM
Albert Belle is already off the ballot? He was pretty fucking good for the 10 or 11 years he played.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:58 PM
Refreshing to hear someone on the East Coast say this.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:58 PM
Maddux and Glavine next year will likely be the first teammates voted in together since Whitey Ford and the Mick in 1974.
I bet Biggio gets in next year. I didn’t see Bagwell’s total, but I assume he got over 50% and so he has a shot at getting in next year as well.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:58 PM
This.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:58 PM
He had to have mixed him up with Larry Walker right??!!
January 9th, 2013 at 2:59 PM
I think it was AJ Daulerio that Conlin had that exchange with.
Bill Conlin is like a less charming Jabba the Hutt.
January 9th, 2013 at 2:59 PM
If only he hadn’t run over those potential future HOF voters with his car that one Halloween.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:00 PM
Still amazes me that Ripken and Gwynn weren’t unanimous.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:00 PM
I wonder whether the players would ever boycott the ceremony or the weekend in support of players they think should have gotten in. The BBWAA has no accountability in these decisions and have made this process a joke. Aaron Sele and Biggio now hold the distinction of not being 1st ballot HOF’ers. Awful. Longevity is now cause for suspicion. Jeter had better retire now.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:01 PM
Next year’s gonna’ be tough:
January 9th, 2013 at 3:01 PM
If you’re gonna vote out players who used steroids, then vote out all the players who used “greenies” back in the ’60s and ’70s.
adding muscle with better workouts due to recovery time = speed to help wake up after a night out before a day game
i get that right?
January 9th, 2013 at 3:01 PM
Htown,
The wife works in Cooperstown and is from the surrounding area. The only baseball related activities we considered were renting the field behind the HOF and playing softball the day before but it was too expensive. Cooperstown is great in the summer even apart from the baseball HOF stuff. I love going up there.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:02 PM
Of course.
Ripken should not have been a first ballot Hall of Famer.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:02 PM
I went to many Giants-Phillies and Pirates-Phillies games. I went many times for him. The only players better than him are Ruth & Williams.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:02 PM
If people want to know who should be in the Hall of Fame all that needs to be done is pull up my Ken Griffey Baseball N64 roster.
I would be fine if all those guys made the Hall of Fame.
/looks up roster
//oh sorry no Bonds on there.
///But JT SNOW COME ON DOWN
January 9th, 2013 at 3:02 PM
Otis! My man!
Regarding the vote, c’est la vie.
Regarding the distinction of “first ballot” induction, doesn’t that infer that some honorees aren’t worthy, since you still have to distinguish between first ballot and non-first ballot?
To me, it does. It admits the voters have screwed up in the past, and others will screw up in the future.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:03 PM
Ripken should not have been a first ballot Hall of Famer.
Fuck you
January 9th, 2013 at 3:03 PM
Don’t forget Biggio and Bagwell also.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:03 PM
Steroids may have been evident, but there was no testing in the game until 2005. I don’t see how you keep them out, frankly.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:04 PM
This argument is now null and void. If you believe that steroid users are HOF-worthy (which they have to be, unfortunately), there will now be more than 10 guys every year you want to vote for. Someone like Schilling may not get votes because everyone refuses to vote for him at the expense of Bonds/McGruder/Sooser.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:05 PM
Albert Belle got a fair review by the BBWAA.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:05 PM
The Captain will be kept out of the Hall on the first ballot due to the anti-cankles contigent.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:05 PM
Shockingly, no.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:05 PM
The only players better than him are Ruth & Williams.
rickey henderson or 90s bonds? silly question? how silly?
January 9th, 2013 at 3:05 PM
Would Raines, Thomas and Ron Karkovice form the first trio to get in the same year?
January 9th, 2013 at 3:06 PM
Is it better to have a HoF with Bonds in it, or a HoF that ignores 15 years of baseball. It’s an era. Players are judged by that era. Even a ‘clean’ power hitter in 2000 would have been Babe Ruth 80 years earlier.
You don’t put Alvin Harper in the NFL HoF just because he would have led the league in receiving if you put him in 1965.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:06 PM
I think Raines will eventually get in via the Veterans Committee. And if Biggio-Bagwell didn’t go together in this year, they won’t next year.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:07 PM
I just don’t get how one kind of “part time player” (relief pitcher) is considered acceptable by the BBWAA and another (designated hitter) is not.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:08 PM
That is indeed a silly question.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:08 PM
Shockingly, no.
that it? i feel there’s an opportunity for you to educate me instead of me going to research myself
January 9th, 2013 at 3:08 PM
It’s almost like saying “RBI is a great stat” but I kind like the first ballot thing. Screw Bonds on the first ballot. Let him get in next year. I do wonder if we’ll see a jump, just because BBWA doesn’t want to stink up the aura of “first ballot HoFers”
January 9th, 2013 at 3:09 PM
Rabble Rabble Rabble! Rabble!!! When is Opening Day?
January 9th, 2013 at 3:09 PM
My God, that’s a fucking travesty.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:09 PM
You know I’ve never been a fan of the idea of career DHs (meaning a sizeable amount of their career) making the HOF but this raises an interesting point…the DH is involved in a helluva lot more plate appearances than the closer
January 9th, 2013 at 3:09 PM
Steroids may have been evident, but there was no testing in the game until 2005. I don’t see how you keep them out, frankly.
I am not some maniac that will say your POV is invalid. I just think that use of steroids was such an obvious form of cheating (illegal and all) that I think it’s pretty pussy. Also, I dtry to avoid (not implying you do) getting too worked up about shit like HOF and MVP votes. Lot of injustices and irregularities out there.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:10 PM
bonds gets in just for the 90s, we all agree on this
/crosses fingers that we all in fact agree on this
January 9th, 2013 at 3:11 PM
Or the one who did the opposite and used the eye/feel test, and realized that Jack Morris was an ace for 10 years even if his stats don’t support that.
/some people
//I don’t care
January 9th, 2013 at 3:11 PM
Countless players have talked about how amphetamine made them see the ball better. It’s not just waking them up, it’s focus and endurance.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:11 PM
I think Raines will eventually get in via the Veterans Committee. And if Biggio-Bagwell didn’t go together in this year, they won’t next year.
I think it more likely that Biggio gets in before Bagwell.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:11 PM
If the goal is guys who clearly never roided up put Mark Grace in, pump him full of Old Style and turn him loose on the podium
January 9th, 2013 at 3:13 PM
Not nearly as many high-leverage situations. I imagine the WPA for a closer is pretty high, just based on the situation he is put in.
Though I do think DHs should be in the Hall. And Punters in the NFL.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:13 PM
Raines will get in I think in another 3-4 years. He’s jumped above the 50% threshold. The electorate has come around to his case more and more. It will just be a tough ballot with more no-doubt HoFers coming on to the ballot the next three years.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:13 PM
I think Rob Dibble should be allowed to warm up the crowd first.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:13 PM
Next year, they are going to induct the 1994 Expos in en masse.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:13 PM
Oh we definitely agree on this.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:13 PM
Fifteen years ago, many of these same writers were lauding the players that they know find anathema to the sport.
Maybe if they’d done their actual jobs, they could have unearthed the extent of PED use in MLB and exposed it so that players like Bonds and Clemens — greats who fell in line with everyone else to use — didn’t get involved.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:13 PM
33 percent of voters did not consider Yogi Berra a Hall of Famer. 33 percent!
January 9th, 2013 at 3:13 PM
That’s ever so slightly different from withholding a vote from a player simply because it’s his first time on the ballot.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:14 PM
If the goal is guys who clearly never roided up put Mark Grace in, pump him full of Old Style and turn him loose on the podium
90s hits leader knew how to train
January 9th, 2013 at 3:14 PM
Yeah, unless we are going back and taking most of the 1970′s Steelers out of the NFL HoF, you just have to deal with cheaters in the HoFs.
/but really go ahead and take Swann out
January 9th, 2013 at 3:15 PM
The 1994 Expos are the greatest imaginary World Series champions of all time.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:16 PM
Edgar might lose votes, because of the 10-vote limit. Like Jayson Stark chose 10 guys. He gonna pick the same 10 next year? Some asshole is gonna fuck over Maddux’s 100% vote.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:16 PM
Players are judged by that era.
Serious question, is this explicity stated? I thought it was the greatest players of all time. Yeah, you judge them by era, as one of your guides. But there are plenty of uneven swathes. They didn’t shoehorn in 3B and such even though they were the best of their era.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:17 PM
Mattingly’s best chance at a ring, that year.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:17 PM
The next portion of this HOF induction ceremony on ESPN is sponsored by ‘Discount Cab’
January 9th, 2013 at 3:17 PM
For those with the “roids weren’t outlawed until 2005″ arguement (not starting a feud here – what’s the response to the fact that they are illegal?
Presumably “doesn’t matter because everybody was doing them?”
January 9th, 2013 at 3:18 PM
So in my non-real ballot of this year I would’ve had: Bonds/Clemens/Schilling/Raines/Trammell/Piazza/Edgar Martinez/Biggio/Bagwell
Next year with Maddux, Glavine, Frank Thomas, and Mussina coming on the ballot…yeah good luck.
At least six players+ need to be inducted next year. Because in 2015 it only gets worse with Pedro, Randy Johnson, Smoltz, Kent and Sheffield coming on the ballot.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:18 PM
Countless players have talked about how amphetamine made them see the ball better. It’s not just waking them up, it’s focus and endurance.
your contention then is that use of greenies is equally as bad as use of the chemicals used in the ‘steroid era’? what home run-record chase did i miss besides maris chasing ruth?
so it’s either no one gets in or they all do
January 9th, 2013 at 3:18 PM
the other thing that makes me lean towards DHs getting in is that there are certainly guys in the Hall who are in specifically because of their defense (Mazeroski, Ozzie Smith) and I’m sure there are guys in there who were poor defensive players…I think the line between those guys and designated hitters is pretty blurry.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:19 PM
Just wait til the (cough cough) choirboy Jim Thome gets in.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:19 PM
Nothing is, which is the problem.
But how can it be anything but judged by the era? “I’m not voting for some pussy SP who couldn’t pitch in 45+ games a year!” “Roberto Hernandez had more saves than anyone in the 1920′s 30′s and 40′s combined… vote him in.”
January 9th, 2013 at 3:19 PM
That I don’t care? Every era has had cheaters. Gaylord Perry is in the HoF, and he was throwing spitballs left and right, which have been banned for almost as long as baseball has existed.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:19 PM
So you’re the guy with the comprehensive list of users. Mind sharing?
January 9th, 2013 at 3:20 PM
BTW, this deserves the Paul McCartney “in this ever-changing world in which we live in” award for redundant phrasing.
/ I keed
January 9th, 2013 at 3:21 PM
This is where the era comes in. Matt Williams (his stats) in the 1970′s = HoFer. Matt Williams in the 1990′s? No. I wouldn’t even say 500 HR is “automatic” entry in the steroid era. You have to re-calibrate everything.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:22 PM
does Griffey get on the ballot in 2015 or 2016?
fuck me. this whole time I thought it was “if this ever-changing world in which we’re livin’”
January 9th, 2013 at 3:22 PM
An all-time exceptional DH is okay to get in the hall. Edgar was one of the best hitters ever. If it was a generation without the DH he would have played in the field. Guys that hit like that, they make room for you in the field somewhere. Fucking raked, that guy.
He and Tony Gwynn had some years in the mid-90′s where they were squaring up the ball like 3 times a game. Disgusting.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:22 PM
No, my contention is that both are banned and greenies were actually probably a shitload more widespread than steroids. Plus they go back a long time, every generation has people getting an edge somehow.
Willie Mays took greenies for god’s sake, so yeah I think people getting kept out for that would be asinine.
If a player got caught cheating, fine, keep them out. If not? That’s on baseball.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:22 PM
My 2014 ballot: Maddux, Bonds, Clemens, Raines, Piazza, Schilling, Thomas, Biggio, Bagwell, Glavine. Sorry Edgar, apparently DHs aren’t baseball players.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:23 PM
I think Rob Dibble should be allowed to warm up the crowd first.
by hitting piniella with a meatpie
January 9th, 2013 at 3:23 PM
So you’re the guy with the comprehensive list of users.
lol’d at this
January 9th, 2013 at 3:24 PM
Fuck Curt Schilling.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:24 PM
To quote Big League Stew, Just asking: Who the heck was the one guy who voted for Aaron Sele?
Oh and Bernie Williams and Kenny Lofton went down the trash chute.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:26 PM
he put on a goddamn clinic in 1995.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:26 PM
Dan Patrick said on his show today that greenies in the 60′s is the equivalent of players drinking Red Bull now. And he said it matter of factly. Just awesomely ridiculous.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:26 PM
i get all that mole. there’s just so much that’s fucked about the whole issue. i personally think roiding up is worse than being awake, seeing the ball better. they didn;t do it for records, they did it to get by, play their best. the roid thing was cynical as hell, at least for the better known ones. bonds pissed that mcgwire and sosa were getting pub?
once we argue this, then i have to bring in rose, and yadda yadda, what;s worse for game integrity, gambling or shooting up?
January 9th, 2013 at 3:29 PM
The nice thing about a stat like WAR (flawed as it may be), is that you can somewhat compare contribution.
Edgar had 69.9 WAR on Fangraphs (BaseballRef has him at -10 fielding WAR)
Mariano Rivera has 39.3 WAR Fangraphs
Tim Raines has 70.6 WAR. BR has him at 65.7 and -9.7 defensive WAR.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:31 PM
FWIW, McGwire didn’t roid up to muscle up, but to help with his recovery from injury. Without andro, he likely would have retired in the mid-’90s because of his bad back.
Sosa roided up because corking bats alone wasn’t working.
Bonds fucked himself by roiding, because if he hadn’t ever gone BALCO, he might have become the first 100-percent ballot HOFer.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:32 PM
Also, shouldn’t JMac be posting in here that this year’s HOF ballot proves that baseball is irrelevant?
January 9th, 2013 at 3:34 PM
I wouldn’t even say 500 HR is “automatic” entry in the steroid era. You have to re-calibrate everything.
thome gets in for being the nicest guy ever and oh by the way hitting 500 hr
January 9th, 2013 at 3:35 PM
he might have become the first 100-percent ballot HOFer.
no because he was a prick. that didn;t change with the use of dragon sperm
January 9th, 2013 at 3:37 PM
Either a guy is a Hall of Famer or not.
I believe that this phrase is what started the classic FJM takedown of Colin Cowherd.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:38 PM
. You have to re-calibrate everything.
because of sosa and mcgwire and bonds and a-rod’s totals?
January 9th, 2013 at 3:38 PM
Andro was legal and not banned at the time, yes? I’m not sure what he did illegal after that, but it’s all a big fucking gray area.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:38 PM
I prefer WAR as a single-season stat to a career stat, but as you said it does make an okay baseline to begin comparisons. B-R has Edgar 74th all-time among position players and Raines 67th.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:41 PM
nah, I don’t think the ‘elite’ are the question. All those guys (well, fuck Sooser) were up there anyway. It’s a matter of the middle class (Matt Williams, Thome, Albert Belle, anyone who played at Coors, etc) who have ‘historic’ stats, but were maybe closer to middling for their era, particularly if they cheated.
We’re not talking about the rich getting richer, we’re talking about middle class sneaking into the wealthy category, and needing to be knocked back down.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:42 PM
Really the best thing WAR does is probably not to compare players, but to compare the importance of positions/roles. A solid hitter has more impact than a very good RP.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:43 PM
FWIW, McGwire didn’t roid up to muscle up, but to help with his recovery from injury.
Nada, I think you’re way off here IMO. He roided to bulk up and then exacerbated a balky back. Fuck Big Mac.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:44 PM
Albert Belle was middling to his era? No sir.
January 9th, 2013 at 3:45 PM
but it’s all a big fucking gray area.
and this is worst crime of this issue, that the arguments are now about who used and who didn;t instead of on-field performance
January 9th, 2013 at 3:45 PM
/”so close, and yet so faaaaaaaar”
January 9th, 2013 at 3:45 PM
Albert Belle was middling to his era? No sir.
terrifying may work better
January 9th, 2013 at 3:47 PM
i know we are supposed to suspect everyone but i cannot fathom that thome injected himself. i’d believe he helped others tho