College Football: SI’s Mock Selection Committee Shows Futility of Selection Committee, Four Team Playoff
Sports Illustrated assembled a 12-member mock selection committee to pick a mock four-team playoff field for the 2012 season. It was interesting. It was also an exercise in futility that showed the folly of choosing four teams and choosing them through a selection committee.
SI’s committee was the most probable committee, an assembly of athletic directors representing each conference. The problem is, though directly involved, these are fans, not experts. Athletic directors quickly resorted to the transitive property and justifications that would not pass muster in a sports bar. Ohio State AD Gene Smith’s justification for not voting for Kansas State was he felt “Oregon and Texas A&M would beat em.” This is how you are deciding which teams play for a national title. It is a condensed version of the Harris Poll.
The task at hand is not seamless. The committee picked Florida and Oregon. Georgia has the same record as Florida and beat Florida head to head. Stanford beat Oregon in Eugene, won the Pac 12 and would be left out because of their second loss on the road, to the No. 1 team in the country on a controversial no touchdown call in overtime. Kansas State, winning what may be the nation’s toughest conference with one loss, did not reach even the final round of voting.
This selection committee decides, but it adds no gravity to the decision. Four vs. five comes down to nothing more than who a bunch of old men sitting in a room think would win. Old men think defense wins championships. Advantage: Florida. Old men don’t like Bill Snyder’s team. Advantage: Florida. That method does not resolve the matter in a satisfactory fashion. It just provides a tangible outlet for the animosity of aggrieved fans.
Selecting four teams cleanly may not be possible and this might do a worse job than the BCS formula.
How to fix it? I would junk the committee and move to an objective formula. The BCS has stained the name of “computer polling,” by using a smorgasbord of opaque, unverified and mathematically invalid ones, combining them and then watering them down further with human polling. If there is a transparent formula, with common sense, agreed upon factors input, the output provided would be in far less dispute. Moreover, having scenarios and knowing precisely what a team needs to occur during the closing weeks adds excitement. The committee adds no value. It only clouds and warps the process based on hunches, unfounded truisms and personal whims.
Since that won’t happen… Develop the formula anyway and use it as a baseline. That would provide a firm structure for the committee’s analysis. There would be grounding for comparisons between to teams. It would force more rigor into justifications for inclusion and exclusion. Dislodging No. 4 in a formula in favor of No. 5 would require more than “Oregon and Texas A&M would beat em”
Also, add teams. This will happen anyway and probably before the present deal expires. The motivation will be an even more sick sum ESPN cash rather than the practical considerations. That said, expanding to eight teams with some form of automatic entry would ease the decision-making process. Six teams win their conference and get in via the rating system. In 2012, one of the at large places goes to Notre Dame. With the ranking done after the SEC title game, it would come down to Florida vs. Oregon for the second at large place. Having a proper formula would ease that process tremendously.
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202 Responses to “College Football: SI’s Mock Selection Committee Shows Futility of Selection Committee, Four Team Playoff”
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November 30th, 2012 at 12:54 PM
I know I’ve asked this before when you’ve talked about the formula in the past but…. so what’s your objective formula?
November 30th, 2012 at 12:56 PM
Would base it on strength of schedule and margin of victory with someone far smarter than me about numbers to fine tune it.
November 30th, 2012 at 12:56 PM
Not yet read the article, but I’d assume the slection committee and esepcially the Big 10 ADs are giving conference championships their due. Thus Stanford over Oregon, KSU (assuming win over UT) over Florida, Oregon, etc.
If they didn’t give championships their due, i doubt the premise and outcome.
November 30th, 2012 at 12:57 PM
There has to be something included to take teams calling off the dogs with respect to MOV, right? I mean sure it could be interesting in a train wreck sort of way to see Oregon score 120 against Colorado but it’s not ideal for the sport
November 30th, 2012 at 12:57 PM
The committee put in Alabama and Notre Dame, then chose Florida and Oregon. Kansas State did not even reach the final round of voting for a place.
November 30th, 2012 at 12:58 PM
Actually the opposite (this committee took Florida and Oregon).
November 30th, 2012 at 12:59 PM
ND, Bama/UGA winner, Oregon, and Florida.
Looks good to me.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:00 PM
Losing to Baylor by 4 TD’s will do that. Margin of victory is a factor, just not in the computers.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:00 PM
Would base it on strength of schedule and margin of victory with someone far smarter than me about numbers to fine tune it.
Needs more “Like an adult”.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:00 PM
“at large”
Fuck that. Invite only those teams that:
-Played minimum 9 conference games
-Won their conference championship.
Then put all the names in a hat and pull them for conference seeding order.
Take the selection committee completely out of it.
Computers? Stronger conferences? Whatever … Play the damn games and let it happen. Take the morons out of it.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:01 PM
I would argue teams do that anyway as voters and now a selection committee will be swayed by that. (see UNC jumping into the top 25 after crushing Elon 66-0 in Week 1).
If it is an alternative to not having MOV included at all you could cap it at 28 points. Or, alternatively, count it for less so that SOS counts a lot more.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:01 PM
How would you determine strength of schedule? To me that’s hard to do objectively because if you go by just opponents records then it would lose a lot of value. Oregon would get more credit for beating Arkansas State than Kansas State would for beating Oklahoma State.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:02 PM
So UCLA/Oklahoma/Georgia/Nebraska could be your final four…good job, good effort.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:02 PM
Old men don’t like Bill Snyder’s team. Advantage: Kansas State.
?
November 30th, 2012 at 1:02 PM
Georgia lost by four touchdowns as well, but lost earlier in the season. Georgia was considered in the final round of voting. Kansas State crushed a number of teams while Florida has had narrow wins.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:03 PM
I would like for the Conference Champions to get an auto-qualifier, but it seems unfair with the disparity of strength between the conferences as well as some having championship games while others do not.
It would be a whole lot easier if we had 4 to 6 super conferences.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:03 PM
I’ve still never understood why we have to lock in “4 teams” or “8 teams” in any given year. College football has the best regular season so let’s honor that. Make a formula that takes into account polls, SoS, margin of victory, all of it. Then set a benchmark so that if x number of teams reach that benchmark that year, x number of teams make the playoffs. Some years, two teams separate themselves. Reward them. Let them play in the championship. Some years it’s 4. Some years, there are 4 with 2 outliers. Why does it have to be the same “playoff” every year?
November 30th, 2012 at 1:04 PM
To a team that is currently in the top ten in the BCS rankings and not to a team that finished 6-5.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:05 PM
Computer formulas in CFB will always be limited by the incredibly low sample sizes. I have no problem with a committee. I dont think any of the excluded teams in this example have much of a beef. (Stanford, dont lose to Washington, LSU don’t crap the bed in the last minute against Bama)
November 30th, 2012 at 1:05 PM
The cap is a good idea.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:05 PM
Needs more “Like an adult”.
An unwarranted attack, if you ask me.
/kicks rock
November 30th, 2012 at 1:05 PM
For the same reason Cam ended up at Auburn…
/it was easy
November 30th, 2012 at 1:05 PM
Read it and they didn’t. I think you’ll see this become a larger portion of the consideration as this is formalized.
The outlines would be:
1.) Top 8 in BCS
2.) Strength of schedule
3.) Preference given to Conference Championship
4.) Head-to-head counts where applicable.
So, you end up with as of now:
1. ND
2. SEC winner
3. KSU
4. Stanford
November 30th, 2012 at 1:05 PM
So UCLA/Oklahoma/Georgia/Nebraska could be your final four…good job, good effort.
None of those teams played 9 conference games … you’re helping my argument by pointing out that there weren’t enough conference games to eliminate a possible fraud (UCLA)
November 30th, 2012 at 1:06 PM
MOV is a dumb metric on its own. An opposing team could score a garbage touchdown. Every win margin needs to have context.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:06 PM
Georgia was eliminated as well in this exercise. And 10-2 S. Carolina is a much better loss than losing to a 5-loss Baylor team whose previous best win was over Kansas.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:06 PM
What I don’t get is how a playoff is giving us all these more meaningful games, in their words.
KSU v Baylor
Oregon v Stanford
ND v USC
Alabama v Georgia
Florida v Florida State
All games in the last three weeks of the season that had impact on who was going to play for the title. To me they lose meaning and add more meaning to an additional two games for the playoff.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:06 PM
“Hey Judy in accounting, we’re going to make less money this year because two teams separated themselves. Yeah for serious, you see Judy that’s what this is all about, competition and selecting the best amateur athletic winners.”
November 30th, 2012 at 1:07 PM
So you are not pulling any teams from the Pac12, Big12, SEC or B1G?
November 30th, 2012 at 1:07 PM
Every single metric needs to have context, and basically does, which is why I’m hung up on this “objective” noise.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:08 PM
There are not eight teams worthy of competing for a national championship. Four is just about perfect in my opinion. Also, you’re really giving an auto-bid into the playoff for winning the Big East (B1G and the ACC also work) Conference when a much better third place team from the PAC-12 or SEC could be sitting there?
Your system works if everybody starts on a level playing field. College football is not.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:08 PM
I hate it when your goddamn literary style snark makes sense.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:09 PM
My point last year was that the National Championship game was really a regional championship game. There aren’t enough cross-conference games to really attach any weight to “conference strength” or really “strength of schedule” either. There are just too many teams.
So you focus the regular season effort on the conference and get a true champion from each.
That is my point and it’s the best plan.
/said me
November 30th, 2012 at 1:09 PM
Also, by the end of the weekend, all four of those teams will have played 9 conference games…I don’t think I get your point.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:09 PM
But really though, we wouldn’t lose games. If two teams separate themselves, the other teams still play in bowl games.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:09 PM
I had a much less snarkier response to this post, but this is better.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:10 PM
There’s no right answer. Georgia beat Florida, but they also don’t have another good win. Florida has played a much tougher schedule but doesn’t pass the smell test. Alabama should have two losses. Notre Dame should have three.
The problem is there are no dominant teams. Because everyone is flawed, there’s no way to differentiate. You can make a legitimate case for or against 10 teams.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:11 PM
A playoff obviously is being put in because they figured a way to make money from it over what the current system holds. Or as TBL likes to argue, because the internet fans “beat the drum” for a playoff – like an adult.
I get that it’s about money, I just see the selection issues as a separate thing.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:11 PM
As Mandel (or a writer) pointed out, 2012 Stanford is 2011 Oregon. Stanford lost to the #1 team (ND) in the country (though much less definitvely than Oregon to LSU), and beat the other head-to-head. But Oregon is rewarded by having less losses an not winning the Pac-12.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:11 PM
Personally, I think the four best teams in the country are Stanford, Oregon, Alabama and Kansas State. I have no idea which four teams are most deserving, however.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:12 PM
You’re adorable.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:13 PM
There is no right answer. Doesnt mean all wrong answers are equal.
I think whether or not you like the “committee” idea depends on whether you want hard-and-fast “rules” for determining the “best” team. A committee can be inconsistent and does not need to adhere to any pre-defined rules, and that gives some people the willies.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:13 PM
So you are not pulling any teams from the Pac12, Big12, SEC or B1G?
My point is … if you’re making the new rules, make them better and force the conferences to participate with these really good rules to be included.
Dang – a bunch of “this is how it is today so let’s not change” bubbas all up in here.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:13 PM
Public pressure absolutely played a role. How big of one is debatable. But polls put the desire for a playoff north of 80 percent. That matters.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:13 PM
UCLA played 9 conference games. The Pac 12 is the only league that plays 9 conference games AND has a championship game.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:14 PM
I think there will be guideline the committee must follow – especially with regard to SOS and conference champs. That was the whole reason for the committee in th first place.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:15 PM
Which is dumb. It made some sense to play 9 when everyone played each other and you didnt have a championship game. Now you’re just screwing yourselves by giving your teams 9 extra losses.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:15 PM
If the NCAA found that they were going to make one dollar less on a playoff format than the BCS, it wouldn’t have mattered if public support were at 100%.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:16 PM
But they don’t. And the right answer was my first comment. Oregon, SEC champ, Florida, and ND.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:16 PM
I like your 8 team format with one tweak. The conference champion gets an automatic bid ONLY if they finish in the top 12 in the rankings. This would keep out shitty conference champions when certain conferences have down years
November 30th, 2012 at 1:17 PM
UCLA played 9 conference games. The Pac 12 is the only league that plays 9 conference games AND has a championship game.
Thanks – so maybe it should be 10. Maybe they’r not such a fraud after all?
Win your fucking conference championship. Then tell me you deserve to advance.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:17 PM
Semantics, but “guidelines” are not rules. If you put a “computer” in charge you’re stuck with whatever it spits out (Nebraska in ’01, Oklahoma in ’03).
November 30th, 2012 at 1:18 PM
Everyone recognizes the conference championship games are straight cash grabs that only matter every 5 years or so. The 9 game conference schedule should help SOS with a committee, so the extra lose shouldn’t necessarily be a hinderance.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:18 PM
SOS needs to be a part of any formula. Right now there is zero incentive for BCS conference teams to schedule even mediocre OOC games. Georgia has a chance to play for the mythical national title if they beat Alabama tomorrow. They have beaten one above average team all season. There’s no reason to challenge yourself anymore.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:18 PM
And 9 more wins against BCS conference teams.
With 16-team confereces coming in the Big 10 and SEC (it’s gonna happen), 9 game conference schedules will happen.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:19 PM
Which is dumb. It made some sense to play 9 when everyone played each other and you didnt have a championship game. Now you’re just screwing yourselves by giving your teams 9 extra losses.
No – the more in conference games played – if all do the same thing – the closer you get to narrowing the field to a true champion.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:19 PM
The Big Ten has a name you know
The problem here though is that conference bloat means not all championships and seasons are equal so you’re narrowing you criteria too much…flip Georgia and Florida’s schedules and I would say with some degree of confidence that even still with the win over the Gators the Dawgs don’t finish 11-1
November 30th, 2012 at 1:20 PM
It just affects perception of a conference. “The Pac XII sucks, look at all these 7-5/6-6 teams!” Meanwhile 6 SEC teams have 2 or fewer losses.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:21 PM
SOS
Is not a valid measurement b/c there are too many teams to cross reference and not enough cross-conference games.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:22 PM
Completely untrue. But its moot because they will earn tens of millions of dollars more.
Dumb.
Florida is not one of the four best teams in the country. Neither is ND. All I heard last year was that Alabama belonged in a title game over a more deserving OkSt team because “they were better.” Well, if them’s da guidelines, then Florida and ND have no business being in a top 4.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:22 PM
GT to the big ten looks like it is gonna happen.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:22 PM
By the way here’s Duffy’s hypothetical playoff if UCLA beats Stanford, Kent State wins and Wisconsin pulls an upset. All realistic outcomes
Notre Dame vs Wisconsin
Alabama vs Kent State
Florida vs UCLA
Kansas State vs Florida State
No Oklahoma, Oregon, LSU, South Carolina, or Texas A&M. But yes to UCLA, Kent State and Wisconsin. So fair!
Yeah pretty good playoff Duffy. Still don’t understand why you don’t want the best 8 teams. Stewart Mandel (a guy who watches a lot more football than any of us) said this week Kent State isn’t one of the top 16 teams in the country, but they would be in the Duffy Playoffs. As would Wisconsin and UCLA.
Asinine.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:23 PM
Alabama is still living off last year, IMHO.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:23 PM
Let’s try this again.
GT to the big ten looks real.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:23 PM
Oh, I agree that conferences should go to 9 game shedules, but if, hypothetically, Stanford is docked for losing to UCLA, while Georgia treads water by playing the Citadel, Stanford absolutely should get the benefit (from a committee) of a tougher schedule.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:24 PM
I disagree with this, mostly because I think how you perform against the best teams (UF going 4-1 against the top 15 and ND beating ranked opponents) matters more than how you do against say, La-Lafayette or Pitt. Alabama crushing Mississippi State and Auburn just doesnt do anything for me.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:24 PM
Yeah remember all those people screaming that we must have those extra playoff games for March Madness? The NCAA never makes decisions based on money instead of looking at public opinion.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:25 PM
Uh, Florida has beaten current BCS #6,8,10, and 13 and their only loss is to BCS #3. Please find me a team throughout history that has that kind of resume this late in the season. They have earned it. It may not have been pretty, but it worked.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:25 PM
All because of a very early 33 point loss to Kentucky. Put them on the field now and I bet Kentucky loses by 33.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:25 PM
Florida has 1-loss with the toughest schedule in America. ND is the only undefeated team (that is bowl eligible). To not include those two is impossible.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:26 PM
Its absolutely valid. The only issue becomes conference bias, like we’re seeing with the SEC this year. The entire conference is artificially inflated. And since they all play each other, how do you determine what’s really a good win? Is Georgia really the third best team in the nation? Does South Carolina deserve to be in the top 10? Are Alabama and LSU really that good?
Pollsters see SEC and assume yes, so all of a sudden, every win is amazing and every loss is written off with “we play an SEC schedule and only lost to two X ranked teams.” In that case, I’d say better metrics are needed. But it doesn’t take a genius to see that Florida played a tougher schedule than Georgia, Kansas State a tougher schedule than Alabama, etc.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:26 PM
That 2006 Florida team looked ugly in most of their wins as well.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:27 PM
flip Georgia and Florida’s schedules and I would say with some degree of confidence that even still with the win over the Gators the Dawgs don’t finish 11-1
Please refer to my 9-10 game requirement “in-conference”. Win and move on …
November 30th, 2012 at 1:28 PM
I agree with this. This version of Alabama isn’t as good as everyone says. Their secondary is suspect and the D-line has been iffy getting to the QB. Having said all that I don’t think Georgia or ND can exploit that, but they do have realistic shots of beating Alabama. Would not be surprised one bit if Georgia throws it all over them. Also would’t be surprised if Aaron Murray sharted himself
November 30th, 2012 at 1:28 PM
November 30th, 2012 at 1:28 PM
Yay – the Brave traded Hanson … buuuuh bye!
November 30th, 2012 at 1:29 PM
The SEC could have gone to 9 games and they could have had Florida face Alabama and Georgia play Arkansas. With so many teams equal scheduling is near impossible.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:29 PM
Doesn’t really help this problem so I’d rather not
November 30th, 2012 at 1:30 PM
Thanks for the update Mole.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:30 PM
I’m praying that ND is a double-digit underdog to them at some point to get in on
November 30th, 2012 at 1:31 PM
I agree with this. This version of Alabama isn’t as good as everyone says. Their secondary is suspect
I agree as well. Additionally, I think last year’s secondary was over-rated and pumped up by bad SEC QB play.
bama struggles against really good QBs (the SEC has one and they lost to him).
November 30th, 2012 at 1:31 PM
Also, polls nee to be hel until week 5 at minimum. Teams outside the top 15 or outside altogether can’t crack the top 5 without going undefeated. Teams in the top 15 are left there by inertia.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:31 PM
So do we get to do that with the Ohio game too? Put the Ohio game they won at the beginning of the season and they probably lose that one. We can play the “but if they played at a different time” game with everyone’s schedule. They still lost by 33. To a team whose only other win was an FCS team.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:31 PM
Please propose an objective strength of schedule metric that shows how – without bias – the SEC is down and Bama is inflated.
Mind you I 100% agree with that assertion, I just want to know how that’s going to be done.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:32 PM
That’s why the defualt should be win your conference, with the assuption that the conference (which handles conference scheduling) knows what it’s doing.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:33 PM
With so many teams equal scheduling is near impossible.
Agreed – to a certain extent. My point is to keep the conferences tight to get a “truer” conference champion to advance.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:34 PM
So I read this, and once again, the best I can figure, the current system is all screwed up, and it’s impossible to give everyone a fair shake.
And to fix it, Duffy is proposing a transparent new system, once again with almost no detail about how to do that, but assures that it will give everyone that guarantee of a fair shake.
I know I read this post two years ago.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:34 PM
Hookers reacting braveheart?
November 30th, 2012 at 1:34 PM
Without question. If that team had “Boise State” on the front of its jerseys with the exact same resume, they’d be playing for nothing tomorrow.
Florida beat No. 7 LSU at home before Mettenberger was a good as he is now, a South Carolina team with exactly one good early-season win, earned a 3-point week 2 win over A&M and got by No. 13 Florida State. I’m don’t think Florida would be favored over A&M or LSU right now on a neutral field. Being 117th in offense and needing a blocked punt to beat a Sun Belt team at home doesn’t help, either. Definitely a great resume, but one that becomes less impressive with a bit of scrutiny.
Again, Ok State had a better resume than Alabama last year but was left out because of the “eye test.” Why is it not fair for the eye test to be applied this year? Because the team it hurts plays in the SEC?
November 30th, 2012 at 1:35 PM
Please propose an objective strength of schedule metric that shows
You can drive these things to mean almost anything you want … kind of like a political poll.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:35 PM
November 30th, 2012 at 1:35 PM
Definitely going to be interested in seeing how that line moves. every casual college football fan I know has said some variation of “Alabama will kill ND”. If Joe public thinks that that line could easily get into the 11 range. Or the ND public could keep it right around 8.5/9. I wonder what the tipping point will be though. I would have taken Alabama at anything below 10, but after the SC game and rewatching Alabama -LSU, I would take ND and may take the moneyline.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:35 PM
Which teams are over/under-rated this year, based on this criteria?
November 30th, 2012 at 1:36 PM
I hate the SEC, but come on! The last half dozen years should count for something since there’s no real data to contradict the “SEC is strongest” mantra.
I love the Big 12, but agree with Watsonian’s 4: Oregon, SEC winner, Florida and ND.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:37 PM
Exactly, which is why it’s not objective, which is why it’s fucking IMPOSSIBLE to remove bias from this setup so I honestly do not understand why people are talking like there’s a way to get the best teams out there that removes all opinions.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:38 PM
Florida State at 13. Beat nobody of consequence, lost to NC State and decimated by Florida. But they were preseason top 3…
November 30th, 2012 at 1:38 PM
The only non biased way of settling a champion is a round robin tournament. As that’s not possible, there’s always going to be a subjective element involved.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:38 PM
Are you under the assumption that Texas is beating KSU?
November 30th, 2012 at 1:39 PM
I’m not really qualified to do that. I lack the algorithms to predict voter turnout or box office grosses, but other people seem to have stepped in to fill that void. I don’t think it would be difficult for someone motivatied to solve this problem as well.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:39 PM
As that’s not possible, there’s always going to be a subjective element involved.
How is this not possible if you only invite conference champs and randomly set the seeding?
November 30th, 2012 at 1:40 PM
To be fair they lost their best player for the season in September. They didn’t have a tough schedule but they were up there because of their defense, which took a big blow.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:40 PM
Hell no.
I think that Baylor loss did KSU in. Big 12 is very deep, but I don’t think there’s much strength at the top.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:41 PM
I honestly do not understand why people are talking like there’s a way to get the best teams out there that removes all opinions.
Conference Champions
/my new meme
November 30th, 2012 at 1:41 PM
What happened in the past should count for absolutely nothing in college sports. New players, new season, new outcomes.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:41 PM
Sorry I meant of the realistic approaches. I don’t mean that derisively, I just mean there’s no way that’s happening.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:41 PM
Florida LSU would be a pick em. Florida would be a 3 point choice over A&M on a neutral field. Florida is good. They can run the ball on 8 man fronts. Their defense is fast as hell. They made FSU’s defense look like Louisiana Tech at times.
also re: Mettenberger. Um, did you see the Ole Miss and Arkansas games? He’s good now? He was AWFUL against Ole Miss and a little bit better than awful against Arkansas. And those two defenses are, howyousay, poo poo. Florida would still eat him alive.
Everyone sees Florida struggle against those small schools and make generalizations, but look at the whole body of work. It’s not a mistake they made teams look bad. That’s because they are really good.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:41 PM
Not really egregious. Without preseason polls…they are ranked 16? They’d have to be ahead of Texas/UCLA.OrSU, right?
November 30th, 2012 at 1:41 PM
Use the PairWise. College hockey goes solely by that formula for its tourney. http://www.collegehockeynews.com/info/?d=pwcrpi
November 30th, 2012 at 1:42 PM
And frankly there SHOULD be a subjective element and some kind of screening. Is Wisconsin more deserving of a title shot than Florida? Fuck no.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:42 PM
I’d be fine with aTm over K-State. Two close losses to Florida and LSU are far more respectable than a Baylor ass whoopin.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:43 PM
There would need to be 8 12-team conferences all playing a round robin schedule. Win your conference, advance to the playoffs. That’s the only real way.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:43 PM
You could always use the hideous RPI that they use in basketball. FWIW, here’s what the football rankings would be:
Bama…number 10
November 30th, 2012 at 1:44 PM
Squawk really wants that UCLA v Oklahoma and Wisconsin v Georgia final four…and eliminate any OOC games of any significance.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:44 PM
Other than South Carolina in there, that’s much closer to “who’s deserving” than the current BCS standings.
Alabama is closer to No. 10 than No. 2, I’ll say that.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:47 PM
Pairwise for football would rely heavily on RPI because of the bigger scheduling gap because of number of teams as compared to hockey. That’s not a horrible system though.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:48 PM
Squawk really wants that UCLA v Oklahoma and Wisconsin v Georgia final four…and eliminate any OOC games of any significance.
If they’r all conference champs, then they deserve to be there.
Don’t you have HS playoffs? Region champs are tossed into a bracket and they play till you get a champ? Seems to work pretty well at that level. I believe it should translate pretty well to college.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:48 PM
Whatever rules the committee has will have a BCS poll component to weed out 5 loss conference championships from participating, but if you have 4 major conference champions in the to 6-8, the field is set.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:49 PM
that’s a bit of a stretch. they were controlling in the third quarter and then completely fell apart.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:49 PM
If only 2-3 conference champs in to 6-8, the you go to at large.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:49 PM
This actually sounds good.
So if we moved to Pairwise, polling goes away basically.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:50 PM
4 quarter game, and FSU scored a garbage time touch down to make get to 26.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:51 PM
Aside from a 5-10 minute meltdown in the 3rd, Florida dominated that game.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:51 PM
Yesterday the internet was abuzz with the “it’s hard to pick 4 teams, so let’s move to 8″, as if that’s going to alleviate the problem. Fuck that.
Yeah, I know it’s coming eventually. Hopefully later than sooner.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:53 PM
Was he completing passes against Ole Miss and Arkansas? OK then, he’s improved.
Florida caught an A&M team with a freshman QB in week 2, benefited from three South Carolina unforced errors, got LSU at home with a new QB and needed a punt block to beat a Sun Belt school. Their offense is an abortion, they’re overdependent on special teams, and they have one decent win outside of Gainesville.
I’d be a much stronger advocate for Florida had the “title game rules” not been changed last year to make room for Alabama. Good team with an impressive resume, but not one of the four best in the nation, IMO
November 30th, 2012 at 1:53 PM
I think most of us agree that SOS needs to matter more, and teams should be rewarded (and not penalized) for scheduling good OOC opponents. Where it gets tricky is the unbalanced conference schedules are set up by the conferences and not the teams themselves.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:53 PM
So I guess the RPI would be an objective way to measure SOS in that it merely looks at the numbers. And it would seem to fuck over Bama. MY TUNE IS CHANGING.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:54 PM
Stanford beat Oregon in Eugene, won the Pac 12 and would be left out because of their second loss on the road, to the No. 1 team in the country on a controversial no touchdown call in overtime.
I would argue the loss to an average Washington team would be more of the reason Stanford would get left out.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:55 PM
Yeah, I mean. Florida only played 5 of the top 12 teams. Won two road games in that group, but shit, they suck.
Anyone making a case for Florida’s season NOT being impressive is breathin’ out their mouth.
Or would you rather make a case for Oregon because they win big? The beat ONE team in the top 25. ONE.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:56 PM
This escalated quickly.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:58 PM
All they had to do was beat Georgia and we wouldn’t be having this coverstation.
November 30th, 2012 at 1:58 PM
November 30th, 2012 at 2:00 PM
I guess that 117th ranked offense/not scoring 14 points a game on special teams catches up to you sometime.
Florida has a legit resume. Absolutely legit, even with the closer examination. I personally wouldn’t put them in the top 4.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:00 PM
Confused by this Florida is ahead of Oregon in the BCS and their schedule is a factor in that.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:00 PM
It was actually A&M’s (and Manziel’s) first game.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:01 PM
Absolutely. I’m not advocating them for the BCS Championship. I’m downplaying the stupidity of shitting on their wins because they had a bad game with their backup QB against UL-Lafayette.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:01 PM
For the selection committee eliminating KSU because of how they have looked lately…shouldn’t they be elevating Stanford based on how well they are playing with their new QB?
November 30th, 2012 at 2:03 PM
Treigh, shut it. Oregon is better than Florida. Because I said so.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:03 PM
How does Florida NOT pass the eye test? Because of one game?
And by the same token Oregon gets a pass because they score a lot of points and played a shitty schedule?
November 30th, 2012 at 2:05 PM
This is exactly why I doubt the presime and outcome of SI’s story. Both KSU and Stanford (assuming they win out) will likely be almost automatic to the playoff, no matter how they’re playing (eye test). Conference champion inside the top 8, and if someone from you conferenceis ahead of you, you beat them head-to-head.
Where teh committee will have issues is selecting a 4th team if there aren’t conference champs in the top 8.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:06 PM
I personally believe Stanford is the best team in the country right now.
They don’t pass the eye best because of their inability to score points and overdependence on special teams.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:08 PM
Ah, the USC Defense where if you win a few late you’re suddenly the best in the country…forget the bad loss along the way, like it never happened
November 30th, 2012 at 2:09 PM
Let’s not forget Bowling Green and Jacksonville State.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:09 PM
Again. Oregon passes despite their inability to play defense and inability to perform on special teams.
Florida proved they can win DESPITE that, just like Oregon did. Florida did it 4 times. Oregon did once.
But yeah. You have to score a lot of points to be good in football. I forgot. (Checks last 6 National Champions)
November 30th, 2012 at 2:10 PM
That argument could certainly be made, and they would be third in RPI if we used that.
Using the Pairwise formula though they’d be out of a title game but definitely in the playoff. Lost to ND (and again, don’t care about how, but you cannot in any system put them above ND when they lost to them) and Washington whose common opponent to Florida is LSU.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:10 PM
Because 90+% of football fans value offense more than defense.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:11 PM
This point is even juicier considering he’s a Ravens fan.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:11 PM
Dude. We sat half our team and ran the ball relentlessly against Jax State so we lay the cock hammer to FSU.
I guess killing the 1 loss Noles in Tallahassee doesn’t count in that whole eye test thing though.
Score points. Got it. Let me get Mike Leach on the phone.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:12 PM
I think so too. (Sincere)
November 30th, 2012 at 2:13 PM
Treigh, to be fair your SEC homerism is as bad as HuskerDawg’s. You think the final four should be Bama, UGA, Florida, and LSU. So your opinion doesn’t mean much.
Please go back to putting criminals back on the streets.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:13 PM
If you’re gonna schedule a I-AA cupcake, you need to beat the hell out of them. 23 points against a mediocre FCS squad isn’t good.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:13 PM
They played at Washington on a Thursday night early in the year with their now backup-QB coming off a then-huge win at No. 1 USC. That’s as trappish a game as has ever existed. Pretty sure that’s the outlier.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:14 PM
NFL =/= college football
November 30th, 2012 at 2:15 PM
Washington wouldn’t be that bad of a loss if it weren’t for them losing to WSU.
USC, OSU, Oregon, LSU, Arizona, they didn’t really have any losses to bad opponents on their schedule. Under a two team system, fuck yes use that to keep them out. Under a four team, if they beat UCLA this weekend, don’t think so.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:16 PM
I’m lol’ing all over the place. So which of their 37 points last week was based on their overdependence of special teams? Was it the fumble they forced on a kickoff? Or did FSU just drop it? Was it he fake field goal they ran that Trey Burton messed up and they got nothing?
Also is special teams not a part of the game? Because last I checked LSU and the honey badger were special teams monsters last season. Didn’t see anyone saying that was a negative.
Ludicrous to think Florida is not one of the best 4 teams right now. or ND. Just shows someone that doesn’t watch the games. Is this really TBL?
November 30th, 2012 at 2:18 PM
Florida, ND, Stanford, and then who the fuck cares that’s my top four. But it’s sure as hell not Kansas State.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:19 PM
So your argument is.
(1) Ignore the impressive wins, particularly the quantity of them
(2) Ignore where you’ve won, and where it was on your schedule.
(3) Ignore how well you’ve played in other areas of the field
(4) The focus should be on rolling D-IAA teams.
(5) Score points
November 30th, 2012 at 2:19 PM
I didn’t mean to come down on Stanford, I’m a fan of theirs…it’s just the moving target of this discussion grows tiring
November 30th, 2012 at 2:20 PM
Just to be clear, in the middle of saying the RPI is a pretty true judgement of CFB this year, QueeferSutherland spends 1000 words describing all the reasons Floridas resume is bad. You know, #1 RPI Florida.
/good job
//good effort
November 30th, 2012 at 2:20 PM
Why not? Just the Baylor loss?
November 30th, 2012 at 2:20 PM
Hey it doesn’t count guys when my own theories go against me. Trap game! Obvious loss. You guys are dumb. It’s not like Stanford’s D gave up 40 plus points and 600 yards of offense to Arizona at home. Oh, they did? Doesn’t count! Trap game! Best team in the country because they beat Oregon and a UCLA team that wasn’t trying!
November 30th, 2012 at 2:22 PM
/drops mic
November 30th, 2012 at 2:22 PM
I’m late to the party, but I wan’t to offer a fly-by opinion on my way back to the coach/email post:
The BCS, yet again, got it right.
/hates the BCS
November 30th, 2012 at 2:23 PM
Probably being harsh but yes. You get drubbed by a not good team and it counts against you big time.
Though I agree their schedule is better than Bama. I mean I guess I would have to put them there it’s just, woof, that Baylor game.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:23 PM
No. Learn to read.
Florida is absolutely deserving based on their resume. Unfortunately, the SEC succeeded in moving the goalposts last year, making title game worthiness about the “eye test” rather than resume in order to make room for Alabama over OkSt. OK, fine. That doesn’t go away now because an SEC team is on the short end of that stick.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:26 PM
Only two undefeated teams in the land. INJUSTICE!
November 30th, 2012 at 2:27 PM
On the road, Klein still not himself…I dunno, I can certainly understand why people will discount a team because of that loss. I tend to give them a pass, though.
Personally, I place much more value on who you beat then who you lose to. Everyone has bad games. That was their only one, but it was really bad.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:28 PM
I’m still confused as to the short end of the stick unless you’re referring to someone saying Florida should be in the 1v2 title game this year. They’re ahead of every team playing for a conference title in the BCS rankings outside of their own conference, and had ND lost they’d be in the title game if Bama beats Georgia.
Or are you saying that for an eye test of picking people to go into the playoff?
The post is about how Florida would get into the playoff.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:29 PM
I always love hearing this, as if we would have had different title game participants without this system. I don’t know why we’re pretending that the BCS is anything more than a mirror of the human polls. Undefeated ND vs. SEC title game winner would have been the outcome without formulas and computers.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:29 PM
I was against it before I was for it.
Hilarious. You’ve only spent years deriding the objective formula.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:30 PM
(1) No one used the “eye test” last year. Bama got in because they didn’t lose to 6-6 Iowa State.
(2) No one is arguing Florida (including myself) should be included in the Nat’l Championship under the BCS system. Which is the system that you claim the “eye test” is used in. They lost a game to a team ranked above them.
(3) Florida was dragged in because of a playoff, which if it existed now would and SHOULD include Florida based on what they’ve done.
(4)Basing this “eye test” on how many points a team scores is retarded. If you want to hold the small games against Florida, so be it. However, IF you’re going to do that you can’t discount the big wins, which there are more of.
(5) Score points, right?
November 30th, 2012 at 2:32 PM
SEC ballwashers went crazy when I didn’t include Florida in my personal top 4. My rationale was that they didn’t pass the eye test compared to Oregon, Stanford, etc. Their rationale for including Florida was “Look at their resume.” Well, the SEC lobbied hard for eye test to replace resume last year in order to ensure Alabama played in the title game vs. the more deserving Ok. St. So that yardstick should still apply now.
That’s all I’m saying.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:32 PM
They lost by 28 to a team that was 4-5 coming in and was beaten by 14 at Iowa State (although I’m sure that will branch off into how no one escapes Ames with an easy win)…McIntyre doesn’t work this hard to conform everything around a set opinion
November 30th, 2012 at 2:34 PM
He’s a natural.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:37 PM
Oregon is 46th in total defense. Which is actually more impressive than it sounds given the amount of possessions an opponent has. That’s more than enough to avoid disparagement.
Florida, however, is 101st in total offense, a legitimate liability.
But let me guess — its only because the defenses in the SEC are so good, right?
November 30th, 2012 at 2:39 PM
Okay so your “eye test” and not any actual “eye test” that is being used which has Florida above everyone else you mentioned.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:41 PM
The transitive property is worthless, but yes, it was a bad loss. If KSU loses by 10 there, does that change anything in your mind? Or was it because they got their ass kicked?
I will say this about Baylor: they’re a bit better than you’re giving them credit for. They lost at Oklahoma, at Texas, and at WVU by one score each. They beat KSU and Texas Tech. Doesn’t change the fact that KSU was blown out on the road. But lets not pretend Baylor sucks.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:42 PM
The eye test is what gave Alabama its chance at a national title last year. I simply don’t think its fair to now eliminate eye test from evaluation criteria because it could adversely affect/effect an ACC team.
/rounduped
November 30th, 2012 at 2:42 PM
*SEC
November 30th, 2012 at 2:45 PM
Judging by your posts in this topic, you clearly undervalue defense. WVU is horrible.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:45 PM
The college football playoff TBL shitfest has returned to glory!
November 30th, 2012 at 2:46 PM
FWIW the FEI, which attempts to correct for opponent, drive starting position and number of possessions, has Florida’s offense 48th and Oregon’s defense 8th. Judge for yourself whether their ratings make sense.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:57 PM
My argument was simply that Florida had 3 “bad” games, not one.
November 30th, 2012 at 2:58 PM
If we reach the point where CFB has a playoff system where teams such as Oregon and Florida (this season) get left out in favor of mediocre conference champs, well, I’ll have a hard time still calling this my favorite sport.
If I wanted to watch a cookie-cutter league with a cookie-cutter playoff system I’d watch the NFL.
/Watches the NFL anyway
//CFB is unique in so many ways and that’s why I love it
November 30th, 2012 at 2:59 PM
How does Florida NOT pass the eye test?
Fuck the eye test…. win your conference championship so we don’t need a ridiculous metric based on opinions.
November 30th, 2012 at 3:00 PM
win your conference championship so we don’t need a ridiculous metric based on opinions.
That doesn’t even appear to be enough for some people.
November 30th, 2012 at 3:05 PM
bring back the gladiator system
/are you not entertained?!
November 30th, 2012 at 3:08 PM
It matters but when that metric uses the ridiculousness of random scheduling it loses some of its luster…college football bloat has turned it into the NFL in just about every way other than postseason format
November 30th, 2012 at 3:10 PM
It seems like taking away the power from the conferences and having centralized scheduling would go a long way towards solving some of those issues, Butters. Because if winning your conference isn’t worth anything then what’s the point of even competing? It’s a little existential I know, but that’s basically what the question boils down to.
November 30th, 2012 at 3:14 PM
Gives the fans a place to tailgate
November 30th, 2012 at 3:14 PM
Gives the fans a place to tailgate
I do enjoy tailgating….
November 30th, 2012 at 3:18 PM
It’s just a little off-putting to me that Alabama doesn’t play UGA, UF or SC, Georgia doesn’t play Bama, A&M or LSU and those teams just happened to win their divisions…it’s why I can’t can’t fall in line with the conferance champs only mentality
November 30th, 2012 at 3:18 PM
Gives the fans a place to tailgate
Good call.
November 30th, 2012 at 3:19 PM
Butters it’s almost like the conferences are too big and amalgamation is a bad thing for college football…..
November 30th, 2012 at 3:19 PM
Hooray superconferences!
November 30th, 2012 at 3:21 PM
BLOAT!
Maybe once the leagues all get big enough we’ll have 10-team divisions play a round robin with each other and then their championship game will be a quarterfinal of sorts…pay the damn playoffs indeed
November 30th, 2012 at 3:21 PM
/bring back the SWC
November 30th, 2012 at 3:33 PM
Personally, I place much more value on who you beat then who you lose to.
Except when its ND, then it’s who you SHOULD have lost to that is the determining factor.
November 30th, 2012 at 3:35 PM
Alabama played in the title game vs. the more deserving Ok. St.
Who says Okie St. was more deserving? The “resume” says Bama lost an overtime game by 3 points to the then No. 1 team in the country while OKST lost to a mediocre Iowa St. team. Oh, that’s right, OKST scored a lot of points.
November 30th, 2012 at 3:36 PM
These comments were a treat to read…bravo.
Don’t see how anyone could be upset with a Final Four of:
ND, Stanford, Florida, Bammer
/Would have bumped Florida for teh OSU if they didn’t cheat…
November 30th, 2012 at 3:48 PM
No one mention OSU before now is interesting.
The same resume that had OSU beating more quality teams against a tougher schedule. But Alabama went because “eye test.”
Squawk, should Alabama have been in the national title game last year?
November 30th, 2012 at 3:54 PM
Squawk, should Alabama have been in the national title game last year?
Personally, I don’t think Alabama should have played in the NC game. Not because OKST was more “deserving” but because I think that if you don’t even qualify for your conference championship game, you shouldn’t qualify for the NC game.
November 30th, 2012 at 4:57 PM
god damnit gene, you’re the worst. i hope urban meyer fires your ass.