Notre Dame Also Benefiting From Present BCS Formula
Dan Wetzel mentions how preseason polls created an uphill battle for Notre Dame. The Irish began the season ranked lower than Kansas State and Oregon. Voters resist change. Notre Dame had the burden to justify why it should move ahead of those two schools as the season progressed. Results from last season, such as Notre Dame losing to FSU in the Champs Sports Bowl, might have undue influence on results this season.
This is true and significant, but it’s hardly the only factor at play and perhaps not the most significant. There are also ways Notre Dame benefits from the present system.
The W-L Record: College football skews common sense. In the NFL, one could argue a 12-4 team that faced a harder schedule was better than a 13-3 team. Try floating that logic in college football. A 10-0 team is almost always slotted ahead of a similar stature 9-1 team, especially in the more conservative Coaches Poll (and the Harris poll that apes it). Of the top 17 teams, only one, 8-2 LSU, is slotted ahead a of a team with fewer losses.
Notre Dame is 10-0. They might face a greater burden of proof than Kansas State or Oregon because of their preseason ranking. However, they are also insulated from multiple SEC teams (Alabama, Georgia, Florida) one might predict to beat them.
No Margin of Victory: The BCS performed a Halsted operation. Facing a minor problem, the formula technically promoting running up the score, the organization enacted a radical solution. The BCS removed margin of victory from the formula. This eliminated the tangible incentive to run up the score. It also rendered the polls mathematically invalid and useless.
Notre Dame has won a number of close games (6-0 in one score games), some of them against not very good teams. They labored to wins against Purdue (20-17), BYU (17-14) and Pitt (29-26 in OT). They needed a controversial call in overtime to beat Stanford. They only beat and okay Michigan by a touchdown despite a (+4) turnover margin.
Alternative formulas that account for victory margin reflect this. Notre Dame is ranked 6th in Sports Reference SRS, behind Alabama (9-1), Florida (9-1) and Texas A&M (8-2). They are ranked 7th in Chase Stuart’s SRS, behind those three teams and Oklahoma (7-2). In Jeff Sagarin’s more accurate rankings that include margin of victory, Notre Dame drops from first to fifth.
Conclusion: Picking two teams is dumb. Picking two teams with the present BCS formula is really dumb. On balance, though, Notre Dame is playing on a level field. Had the Irish beat Purdue, BYU and Pitt comfortably they likely would be much closer to Kansas State in the human polls.
[Photo via Presswire]

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123 Responses to “Notre Dame Also Benefiting From Present BCS Formula”
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November 12th, 2012 at 2:03 PM
They’re insulated from a 9-1 Alabama because a 9-1 Alabama has zero legitimate claim over any of the undefeated teams.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:03 PM
My hate is not truly for Notre Dame. My hatred burns for Killer Kelly. If not for that rat bastard ferret-faced weasel, I would have no problem with ND in the NC game.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:07 PM
Make sure you save this. In a couple years you can just replace “two” with “four”.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:08 PM
I sent a tweet to Chase Stuart trying to find out the difference in the two rankings, but didn’t receive an answer. I’m a dork.
I also didn’t know what a Halsted operation was. Learned something new.
You did make one claim that I’m fairly certain may be somewhat accurate, but would love to see a study: It also rendered the polls mathematically invalid and useless. Perhaps an investigation of which computers “predict” bowl winners best would be instructive. I assume MOV would help with the predictions, but…
November 12th, 2012 at 2:08 PM
or just say “THIS YEAR” it’s dumb/really dumb/whatever…works out occasionally.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:08 PM
Is everyone using the same BCS formula? Yes? I don’t see the issue. The system may be broken, but it is broken for everyone.
/KSU has a loss in them. They looked tired and beat in the second half.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:11 PM
If Texas beats them…a BCS berth? Mack Brown’s obituary may have to be re-written.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:11 PM
Yes, by coincidence, it works out sometimes. If I make all of my life decisions by flipping a coin, some of them might work out.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:13 PM
I would imagine Oklahoma would get second bid first.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:13 PM
I’m enjoying the fact that Notre Dame is 10-0. What a beautiful turn to familiar riches.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:15 PM
Agreed. I dont even want them to make the championship game.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:15 PM
by coincidence, it also didn’t work this year.
counterpoint…if you make all your life decisions by flipping a coin, youre still gonna die, so might as well just enjoy the ride instead of worrying about shit we can’t control that, at the end of the day, is about as meaningful as the miss america contest.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:15 PM
Yeah, I was greedily penciling in one more OU loss. They’ve got three non-gimme’s left.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:15 PM
If Texas beats them…a BCS berth?
KSU would still be league champs and OU would still have a game on Texas. If my math is right.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:15 PM
one may also argue that making conclusions before a season is finished is really, really dumb.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:16 PM
I make my own luck.
/sticks chin out
November 12th, 2012 at 2:16 PM
I’m enjoying the fact that Notre Dame is 10-0. What a beautiful turn to familiar riches. Tim
You are the frontrunniest frontrunner of all time. And you embrace it. I can’t even make fun of you for it.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:17 PM
Which was stolen by Miss RI this year. Or was that Miss USA? Who cares, it’s the most relevant moment for the state in this century, probably.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:17 PM
one may also argue that making conclusions before a season is finished is really, really dumb. ARK
Agreed. However, everybody has been making conclusions for three weeks now.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:18 PM
much like judging the hottest woman in the country, you use different polls, you’re going to get different results. the only thing that’s consistent is that the winner will look pretty damn good.
and the view from the losing side aint to shabby either.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:19 PM
‘Tis untrue. But taking the time to explain my Notre Dame background is beneath me.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:19 PM
reparations for curt schilling stealing millions of RI taxpayer dollars, im presuming.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:19 PM
Would Notre Dame fans rather finish the season undefeated playing in a different BCS bowl or lose in the BCS championship?
November 12th, 2012 at 2:19 PM
Love it when people who spend all day on a website arguing about sports criticize people for arguing about sports.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:19 PM
’tis untrue because lebron james is the frontrunniest frontrunner of all time.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:19 PM
This is sort of beautiful
November 12th, 2012 at 2:20 PM
You’re on the green. Have her try on the bra.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:20 PM
Its a deep seeded love for Sean Astins curly locks.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:21 PM
we spend all day arguing because we all like to argue. arguing is fun…youre just harshing our mellow by wanting to definitively quantify something we all find gloriously entertaining.
we like bowls, we like BCS…it’s almost like we just like watching our regional teams play and leave the harsh objectivity of capitalism to the big boys getting paid over the table.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:22 PM
Speaking of soreheaded losers who can’t accept reality …
November 12th, 2012 at 2:23 PM
this is amateur athletics, right? why do we even need a national champion? exercise is part of a complete human, and the spirit of competition is good for the soul, teaches life lessons
/i cling to this, or all else is cynical and depressing
//i don’t cling to it
November 12th, 2012 at 2:24 PM
and there are like, what, four teams max that are truly worthy of competing for a national championship?
as a fan of a team that’s just not at that level, it’s much easier to enjoy a one-off game than the realization that we’re not even close to competing at the level of one of the decade-long powerhouses.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:24 PM
Fuck Oregon. That is all.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:24 PM
Wake me up when either K-State and/or Oregon loses, or when Notre Dame beats USC.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:24 PM
but seriously, for all the blood this argument stirs, these players would be drafted whether there were bowls or playoffs, no? because what college football really is is a farm ssystem
November 12th, 2012 at 2:25 PM
Lol
November 12th, 2012 at 2:25 PM
as a fan of a team that’s just not at that level, it’s much easier to enjoy a one-off game than the realization that we’re not even close to competing at the level of one of the decade-long powerhouses.
you typed this with glee, gazing into the crystal trophy, oops, ball
November 12th, 2012 at 2:25 PM
Due to circumstances of fate I am going to the Wake Forest vs Cunts game and if the Deacons take it I am going to piss on the Touchdown Jesus mural.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:26 PM
‘Tis untrue. But taking the time to explain my Notre Dame background is beneath me.
I get your Notre Damness. It is the Duke that grates me. Well, not grates. Not even annoyed. Well, pure hate maybe.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:26 PM
“While many young people every year set their goals on becoming NFL players, it is extremely difficult to reach that level. Statistically of the 100,000 high school seniors who play football every year, only 215 will ever make an NFL roster. That is 0.2%! Even of the 9,000 players that make it to the college level only 310 are invited to the NFL scouting combine, the pool from which teams make their draft picks.”
via NFLPA.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:27 PM
You’re confusing me with Mole. I’ve never really liked Coach K and his Wise Chips owl-ness.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:27 PM
im one of the biggest OSU honks you’ll find, and can spin just about anything in an optimistic fashion, but no…OSU wouldn’t stand a snowball’s chance against alabama for at least three more years.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:27 PM
Yes, the farm hands raise the crops for harvest of the Land Owners in exchange for food and board.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:27 PM
Would Notre Dame fans rather finish the season undefeated playing in a different BCS bowl or lose in the BCS championship?
buckeyes fans, can you take this one?
November 12th, 2012 at 2:28 PM
via NFLPA.
Translation… “Don’t take our jobs! Play hockey.”
November 12th, 2012 at 2:28 PM
I like pointing out the fallacy that expanding the “playoff” teams from 2 to 4, 8, 16, or whatever is somehow going to make the bitching and moaning about a team or two getting screwed go away.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:29 PM
Two.
/maybe
November 12th, 2012 at 2:29 PM
You’re confusing me with Mole. I’ve never really liked Coach K and his Wise Chips owl-ness.
Oh, my apologies. I was a contract killer for NCAA basketball fans after the “Order Restored” unpleasantness. You were on the list for some reason.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:29 PM
Better to screw the 5th, 9th or 17th team than an undefeated Auburn.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:30 PM
OSU wouldn’t stand a snowball’s chance against alabama for at least three more years.
which alabama? 2010 or 2011 or 2012? three years seems a little long. would be nice if osu had some battles during the regular season before getting into the final 8. big ten going to need to step up to help out
November 12th, 2012 at 2:31 PM
Listening to a Jim Schwartz presser is exciting….
/Fuck that guy, hang yourself you rube
November 12th, 2012 at 2:32 PM
“While many young people every year set their goals on becoming NFL players, it is extremely difficult to reach that level. Statistically of the 100,000 high school seniors who play football every year, only 215 will ever make an NFL roster. That is 0.2%! Even of the 9,000 players that make it to the college level only 310 are invited to the NFL scouting combine, the pool from which teams make their draft picks.”
via NFLPA.
not sure what your point was, but i enjoyed the exclamation point in a informational paragraph.
arian foster reads this and adds another log to the fire
November 12th, 2012 at 2:32 PM
Better to screw the 5th, 9th or 17th team than an undefeated Auburn.
Yep. I never understand why so much bitching goes on about the 66th and 67th teams that don’t make the tourney. They weren’t winning anything anyway. And the bitching is always shortlived. So, screw #9. They weren’t winning anyway.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:32 PM
as an ND fan who expected 8-4, maybe 9-3 at best this year, it is all gravy at this point for me. I literally do not care if we get tMNC berth after so many years of frustrating under performance. my wife sure appreciates the lack of rum and guinness-fueled rampages post games this year.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:33 PM
BCS controversies Wikipedia page is somewhat lengthy.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:33 PM
I don’t know. Duffy’s fake Internet jihad against anybody that makes money in college football might be worth the sacrifice of Auburn getting screwed in ’04. I mean…not really, but it’s worth a second thought.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:34 PM
Just because your a drunk “Irish” fan does not mean you can beat your wife brah.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:36 PM
What are you, the possible police?
November 12th, 2012 at 2:36 PM
i lolled.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:38 PM
Arrest this man for illegal dumping, trespassing and moral turpitude.
/Just doing my Possible Police job ma’am, one day at time.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:38 PM
it’s not any wife-ly damage that’s the issue, soused, it’s the home owner’s policy. there’s only so many times they will accept a claim for another smashed TV without getting suspicious.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:42 PM
There are 6 teams from the SEC in the top 10 of the BCS standings. Florida has played all the other 5, LSU has played 4, Texas A&M and South Carolina have played 3, and Alabama and Georgia have played 2.
Florida (even though their offense is setting back the forward pass) has a legitimate claim to be the best BCS 1 loss team especially if they beat FSU. If somehow 2 of the 3 unbeatens lose they are the ones that should play for the title regardless that didn’t win their division. Not all schedules are equal.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:42 PM
agreed the TV is more important.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:43 PM
not related to the topic but it really makes me smile that florida has tressel’s old offense while osu’s got urban. fuckin new money gators.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:44 PM
I sent a tweet to Chase Stuart trying to find out the difference in the two rankings, but didn’t receive an answer. I’m a dork.
I also didn’t know what a Halsted operation was. Learned something new.
You did make one claim that I’m fairly certain may be somewhat accurate, but would love to see a study: It also rendered the polls mathematically invalid and useless. Perhaps an investigation of which computers “predict” bowl winners best would be instructive. I assume MOV would help with the predictions, but…
On the one Chase does, I’m not sure of the specifics off the top of my head, but he limits blowouts either by not counting them at full point value over either 24 or 30 points, and by counting all close games as 7 point wins, so that 1, 2, 3 point wins are all the same. When I did my power rankings back in the day for gambling purposes, I did the former, and also tried to come up with a “least squares” measure of the individual game ratings, to minimize the impact of one game with suspensions, injuries, or just a freakish good or bad game.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:46 PM
Richard Nixon’s Head: So anyway, we open the panda crate, and wouldn’t you know it, the damn thing was dead. Upchucked its bamboo. True story.
Captain Zapp Brannigan: Uh-huh.Uh-huh. That’s whatever you were talking about for ya.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:46 PM
“Thank you for calling State Farm, this is Rhonda, how may I help you?”
“Hi my TV was just destroyed and I’d like to file a claim on my homeowner’s insurance.”
“Okay, could I have your name and five digit security passcode?”
“My name is Jason McIntyre, my passcode is 1,2,3,4,5.”
“Okay … thank you Mr. McIntyre. Give me one second to pull up your file… okay it says here you’ve filed six previous claims for destroyed television sets.”
“That’s right.”
“While you are covered, I feel I have to ask, how does this keep happening?”
“It’s simple, I was walking by and out of the corner of my eye I spotted a guy inside the TV, I panicked and tried to hit him.”
“There was an intruder in your home? Sir that’s a police matter I suggest you call them when this is concluded.”
“That’s the thing, after I punched him, he just shattered, I’m really scared, Rhonda.”
“…. what did he look like?”
“Six two, caramel skin, real cut, Lacoste beanie indoors.”
“Sir… sir, that was your reflection.”
“A what?”
“Reflection. You were punching yourself.”
“I don’t follow.”
“Okay, when you are in front of a reflective surface, light bounces off of it and you see an image of yourself.”
“No there was someone inside my TV, you don’t understand.”
“Sir I’m going to end the call now.”
November 12th, 2012 at 2:46 PM
Florida has played all the other 5, LSU has played 4, Texas A&M and South Carolina have played 3, and Alabama and Georgia have played 2.
Florida has played 4 just Like Lsu and A and M I believe. Still they are the only one loss team out of those two so your point remains.
/Just saying
November 12th, 2012 at 2:47 PM
pop.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:48 PM
Crazy opinion alert: They should go back to the original BCS formula that devalued the polls and factored in margin of victory (and I say that as an ND fan whose team would be hurt by such a move). The current BCS is essentially just the human polls with computers as a tie-breaker.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:48 PM
Georgia at No. 4 is more laughable than when Florida was at No. 2.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:49 PM
I was told Urban Meyer left the cupboard bare at Florida.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:51 PM
new money always freaks out when you move their holdings to cash during a broker/dealer switch.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:52 PM
That TV post is brilliant
November 12th, 2012 at 2:52 PM
That got away from me but I was on the phone at the time.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:54 PM
It was wavering until “Lacoste beanie indoors.” You saved it right there.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:55 PM
Whoops, you’re right. But the FSU game probably vaults them over Georgia/ Bama even though they will play each other.
In full disclosure I don’t think Florida will beat FSU anyways. Just like to argue.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:56 PM
TBL’s 6’2″? i always thought he was short.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:56 PM
My understanding is that his TV has a bit of vertical stretch to it.
/hmmm…could be useful for some gay hook-up websites.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:58 PM
I guessed but that would explain a lot Spence. I still think office hierarchy should be determined by height.
Butters, go clean out my car.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:58 PM
what…taking your pic in a TV reflection or reinvigorating the video-dating industry? i think both strategies have some fundamental flaws, to be honest.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:59 PM
I get advertisements for grindr all the time and I don’t know why. I’ve had literally thousands of homosexual relationships and not considered any of them gay.
November 12th, 2012 at 2:59 PM
wouldnt mind seeing rex, SC and roeth battle for control.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:02 PM
http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2012/11/venice-under-water/100403/
A callback to the roundup — here are those images from Venice that EiC didn’t link.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:03 PM
A 1 loss Florida team would have the best resume in the country, assuming they beat FSU – wins over 4 top 10 teams.
The SEC needs to either drop the permanent crossover game or go to 9 games. If Bama wants to play Tennessee so bad, schedule them as a non-conference game.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:03 PM
re: venice…are we sure it wasn’t those hairy wops just clogging the drain? austerity’s really killing the plumbers. more plunga plunga, less bunga bunga.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:04 PM
Not sure what that means, but I can probably make some guesses. I must say, you are an original. And no, that’s not an insult.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:04 PM
Holy shit that’s insane. And makes me want to play ACII.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:06 PM
I can’t remember it to a point of finding it on google but there was an old SNL sketch where one of the conservative talking heads says something like that and it always stuck with me. Not to a point of remembering it, apparently.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:06 PM
you know, i consider AC2 to be a top 10 all-time video game, but have absolutely no desire whatsoever to play the third thanks to their inescapable/horrible marketing.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:06 PM
No doubt. But they wear jerseys that say “Florida” and not “Alabama,” so they’re in some trouble.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:07 PM
Yeah, there hasn’t been a Mario game in years.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:10 PM
Why don’t those lazy-ass shop owners put some sandbags at the doors?
November 12th, 2012 at 3:11 PM
Your issue is marketing?
November 12th, 2012 at 3:12 PM
Italians aren’t exactly known for their work ethic or logistical accumen.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:13 PM
why didn’t new orleasians get some swimming lessons?
/makes “get a load of that asshole” motion
November 12th, 2012 at 3:13 PM
that’s complete crap…mussolini’s trains were ALWAYS on time.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:13 PM
They would, but they spent all morning shaving their chests and not showering. By the time they realized there was a flood they were all “Hey, where’d the dago?”
November 12th, 2012 at 3:13 PM
You are the frontrunniest frontrunner of all time. And you embrace it. I can’t even make fun of you for it.
Awesome word-smithing.
I’d love to see ND go undefeated and not make the NC game.
/2004′d
November 12th, 2012 at 3:14 PM
One of the biggest “you’ve gotta be fucking kidding” moments in Italy was a bus driver just stopping the bus in the middle of a route – not even at a bus stop – to step outside and smoke a cigarette.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:15 PM
Yeah, well, tell that to hundreds of thousands of Italian troops in WWII who deserted and/or lost battles to 12-person Allied scout teams.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:16 PM
You write for Boardwalk Empire?
November 12th, 2012 at 3:16 PM
hmm…methinks you mightve hit the nail on the head with the whole “no work ethic thing.” it’s like they exported all their productive people to america in the early 20th century.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:17 PM
If I did, I wouldn’t have got to the end of that joke for three weeks.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:18 PM
hey…that desert was CRUICALLY important. think of all the resources that would’ve afforded italy! nevermind losing to greece…that’s not important.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:18 PM
vai a fare in culo
November 12th, 2012 at 3:19 PM
Surprised Rommel didn’t just kill the Italians himself.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:22 PM
before or after he “went home sick” when the brits started sinking his supply ships and he wasn’t winning easily?
November 12th, 2012 at 3:24 PM
More like Deserter Fox, amirite?
November 12th, 2012 at 3:24 PM
YOU MAGNIFICENT SON OF A BITCH
November 12th, 2012 at 3:25 PM
desert wily fish.
/erwin brannigan
November 12th, 2012 at 3:26 PM
I’d rather be of Italian descent than French.
/I’m Italian.
//My wife is French
//I have no idea what all of this means
November 12th, 2012 at 3:28 PM
That you give up trying to unclog the toilet after one plunge?
November 12th, 2012 at 3:28 PM
enjoy holmgren, dallas.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:28 PM
She surrendered to your foul odor.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:29 PM
If you like to lol, there is literally no better place for Andy Reid than San Diego.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:30 PM
your surrender flags have marinara stains on them.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:31 PM
You’re both Nazi sympathizers?
November 12th, 2012 at 3:33 PM
think of it more as an allegiance borne from convenience…it’s not that i like their cause, but those hugo boss unis are quite slimming.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:34 PM
That you stop posting whenever Der Kaiser shows up?
November 12th, 2012 at 3:35 PM
If I want my train to run on time.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:49 PM
The same Florida who should have lost to ULL and Mizzou? Because it must be a different Florida these highly accurate computers are talking about.
November 12th, 2012 at 3:49 PM
Fantastic.