Comments on: Justin Verlander is Now 0-3 with a 5.14 ERA For His Career in the World Series

By: Wide Word of Sport (?)

Wide Word of Sport (?) — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 16:26:25 +0000

small sample size

Define this for me, Jason.

/taps foot

By: Scalia

Scalia — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:44:41 +0000

Fitting that their season ended in a beautiful 1-0 shutout

Pitcher should have done a better job pitching to the score.

By: ms621

ms621 — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:41:00 +0000

Fitting that their season ended in a beautiful 1-0 shutout

/Uncalled for

Pistols at dawn.

/you couldn’t be more right though

By: ButtersBC

ButtersBC — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:40:07 +0000

Because the Astros had a horrible offense that year

Fitting that their season ended in a beautiful 1-0 shutout

/Uncalled for

By: Nada

Nada — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:38:06 +0000

beautiful setting and park

My favorite MLB stadium.

By: Nada

Nada — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:35:32 +0000

But what are the ratings for World Series games that Verlander has started?!

By: Career High

Career High — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:34:25 +0000

“Outs in the 9th are the hardest to get” chaps my ass…if there are three better hitters coming up in the 8th have your best go after them then

Or even if it’s 2nd and 3rd with one out in the 7th and your up by a run or two.

By: ms621

ms621 — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:34:02 +0000

I do want to take issue with the statement “statistics can be misleading”. Statistics tell you exactly what they purport to show. It’s how people use, and misuse them, that is the problem. By just about every measurement Roger Clemens had a ridiculously good year in 2005: 200 IP, 1.87 ERA, an absurd ERA+ of 226 (100 is league average), 7.9 K/9, only 2.6 BB/9 and he only gave up 11 home runs all year. But he was 13-8….why? Because the Astros had a horrible offense that year (Bagwell’s career was done, Biggio’s was on the downslope, and Berkman missed the start of the season after tearing his ACL in the off season). Clemens had some of the worst run support in the league. But if you look solely at his W-L it looks like he had a pretty OK yeah….nothing spectacular. He in fact had a ridiculously good season but was let down by his teammates. You cannot divine any of that from simply looking at his W-L.

By: ButtersBC

ButtersBC — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:32:01 +0000

Which is why I’ve never understood why the idea of a relief ace working any late inning in a high leverage situation hasn’t worked. It has always been blamed on bullpen pitchers needing to know their role

“Outs in the 9th are the hardest to get” chaps my ass…if there are three better hitters coming up in the 8th have your best go after them then

By: Career High

Career High — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:29:58 +0000

Absolutely, wonder what the odds are for any team to score 3 runs in any given inning…the requirements for a save are ricidulously low

Which is why I’ve never understood why the idea of a relief ace working any late inning in a high leverage situation hasn’t worked. It has always been blamed on bullpen pitchers needing to know their role.

By: H.E. Pennypacker

H.E. Pennypacker — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:25:08 +0000

A good pitcher will pitch differently with a large lead than one where he is up by 1 run. That’s where advanced metrics are sometimes misleading.

I hope you know this has been proven false

By: ButtersBC

ButtersBC — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:23:39 +0000

Numbers tell a story, but sometimes don’t tell the right one without the correct context

I don’t think anyone’s disputing this, it’s still not a valuable argument for W-L record ever being used as a measurement tool

but I save most of my disdain for Saves

Absolutely, wonder what the odds are for any team to score 3 runs in any given inning…the requirements for a save are ricidulously low

By: ms621

ms621 — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:22:21 +0000

And who cares if you allow baserunners when up 7? That’s the point. Pitchers don’t pitch to the statistics. They pitch to win a game. In some cases, that is reaching back for everything on every pitch. In other cases, where you are staked to a lead, the pitcher can coast a bit. Those numbers don’t provide that type of story telling.

Statistics measure things that directly lead to whether or not a team will win a game and a pitcher will be successful. I’m not sure why there is a perceived divide between the two because they are directly related. So I’m not sure what you mean when you say “pitcher’s don’t pitch to statistics”….they are producing statistics that measure their worth whether they mean to or not.

By: ms621

ms621 — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:20:59 +0000

W-L record is a bad way to measure a pitcher’s worth but I save most of my disdain for Saves. They have twisted the game to a point where you have one guy on the pitching staff come in and get some outs (rarely more than 3 these days) in what is usually not the pivotal moment of the game. And these guys usually cost more than middle relievers too…it’s ridiculous.

By: Scalia

Scalia — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:20:53 +0000

This is a common argument that really doesn’t make much sense. So a good pitcher with a big lead is going to now allow the opposing team to hit him? Isn’t this the Jack Morris argument?

It’s also contradicted by the fact that these are some of the most competitive people in the world. You always see quotes froma pitcher with a big lead that they don’t want to get too complacent and imagine the game is 1-0.

By: Wally's World

Wally's World — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:20:15 +0000

I work in an advanced metrics area. The same struggles happen there. Numbers tell a story, but sometimes don’t tell the right one without the correct context. But, those advanced metrics are needed. They just need to be taken in context and not as the gospel.

By: Career High

Career High — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:17:50 +0000

And, from a statistics perspective… Wins and losses are not the end all, be all. However, great pitchers will coast through 6-7 innings if given a big lead. By coasting to just get the win, it could skew all the REALLY IMPORTANT METRICS that stat heads get so worked up over.

This is a common argument that really doesn’t make much sense. So a good pitcher with a big lead is going to now allow the opposing team to hit him? Isn’t this the Jack Morris argument?

By: Scalia

Scalia — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:16:16 +0000

However, great pitchers will coast through 6-7 innings if given a big lead. By coasting to just get the win, it could skew all the REALLY IMPORTANT METRICS that stat heads get so worked up over.

Someone out there can probably confirm this, but I’m pretty sure studies have been done to basically show that this isn’t the case.

By: ms621

ms621 — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:15:35 +0000

A good pitcher will pitch differently with a large lead than one where he is up by 1 run. That’s where advanced metrics are sometimes misleading.

Advanced statistics don’t tell you to do anything differently. They show that if you allow a lot of base runners many of them are likely to score and you are not likely to be a successful pitcher. Anything beyond that is just verbal masturbation.

By: Wally's World

Wally's World — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:13:20 +0000

Yes it is because if a pitcher allows a lot of those things to occur runs will invariably follow.

A good pitcher will pitch differently with a large lead than one where he is up by 1 run. That’s where advanced metrics are sometimes misleading.