MLB Division Series Format is Back to Being Asinine
Remember when Major League Baseball first introduced the Division Series back in 1995? It was a welcome addition for most, but still had its faults. Most notably, the teams that came into the five-game series with “home field advantage” inexplicably went on the road for Games 1 and 2. A foolish oversight for sure, though the issue was promptly fixed. Unfortunately, the 2012 postseason will mark the triumphant, albeit brief return of the bafflingly stupid home field setup.
The following excerpt was taken from the official MLB press release issued back in August. With the playoffs less than a week away, it’s a stark reminder of an idea so thoroughly doused in stupidity that it’s astounding the format was ever considered to begin with, as it makes no sense:
For the 2012 Postseason only, the five-game Division Series will begin with two home games for lower seeds, followed by up to three home games for higher seeds. This one-year change, which eliminates a travel day prior to a decisive Game Five of the Division Series, was necessary because the 2012 regular season schedule was established before the agreement on the new Postseason format was reached. Next year, the Division Series will return to the 2-2-1 format used in previous years.
In summation, since it took so long for Bird Selig and his devoted flock of fickle pigeons to decide on the addition of a second wildcard, this is what the best teams in baseball are stuck with. Sure, next season MLB will return to the format that actually rewards teams with the most wins, but it’s a sad reality that surprise clubs like the Nationals, a team that has won 96 games and could be a one-hit wonder, might potentially host their first home playoff game while staring at elimination. That’s dumber than Lenny Dysktra with a mouth full of Twizzlers.
[via MLB]
Previously: Bud Selig Announces Expanded MLB Instant Replay
Previously: Bud Selig on Instant Replay: Attendance is Up, Why Do We Need Replay?
Previously: Cal Ripken Jr. Has Chimed in on Instant Replay
Previously: Bud Selig Has Little Interest in Expanding Instant Replay

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October 2nd, 2012 at 2:31 PM
MLB Division Series Format is Back to Being Asinine
This one-year change, which eliminates a travel day prior to a decisive Game Five of the Division Series, was necessary because the 2012 regular season schedule was established before the agreement on the new Postseason format was reached. Next year, the Division Series will return to the 2-2-1 format used in previous years.
OH NO!!!! THE HORROR!!!!!!!!!!!!
FIRE BUD!!!
–Idiots
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:33 PM
More asinine? Having the first round of the playoffs be a best-of-one after a mind-numbing 162-game season.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:34 PM
More asinine? Having the first round of the playoffs be a best-of-one after a mind-numbing 162-game season.
Here’s a suggestion: don’t watch. That way we don’t have to put up with your bitching about the sport all summer. For someone who seems to hate everything about it, you sure do like to talk about it a lot.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:34 PM
More asinine? Having the first round of the playoffs be a best-of-one after a mind-numbing 162-game season.
Here’s a suggestion: don’t watch. That way we don’t have to put up with your bitching about the sport all summer. For someone who seems to hate everything about it, you sure do like to talk about it a lot.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:35 PM
Yes, it actually is horror and unfair to teams that could be one-hit wonders (Nats, Orioles).
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:37 PM
Yes, it actually is horror and unfair to teams that could be one-hit wonders (Nats, Orioles).
Not really. Don’t lose 3 straight games (one at home). Problem solved.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:37 PM
So, anyone else here really looking forward to Thursday and Friday? Should be amazing TV.
Oh, and no post about FOX/MLB lifting the Saturday blackout restrictions? Good work, Bud.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:37 PM
Letting another team in was always going to be a bad idea logistically…playoff creep should have been cut off at 4 per league, that was more than enough
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:38 PM
Even more asinine? Having the home field advantage for the World Series not decided by the team with a better record but by an exhibition game that takes place in the middle of the summer which features an unequal sampling of players based on a popularity contest amongst fans who happen to find the all star ballots at the ballpark while looking for the concession that sells some kind of beer other than Bud Light.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:38 PM
Even more asinine? Having the home field advantage for the World Series not decided by the team with a better record but by an exhibition game that takes place in the middle of the summer which features an unequal sampling of players based on a popularity contest amongst fans who happen to find the all star ballots at the ballpark while looking for the concession that sells some kind of beer other than Bud Light.
Pretty much the only valid criticism of Bud. That nonsense needs to end.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:38 PM
Not sure why anyone is surprised baseball can’t come up with a uniform set of rules. This is a sport that has the pitcher bat in one league while the other uses that spot for a true hitter.
/human element’ed
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:38 PM
Nats could be one-hit wonders but they’re a pretty strong organization all the way through so that would be surprising. Did you stop watching baseball this year, Tim, is that why we lost Yardwork?
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:39 PM
baseball is laughing all the way to the bank
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:39 PM
I don’t understand how the problem caused the outcome in this situation, seems really fucking weird.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:39 PM
crazy stat (?). this is the first time the tiggers have won back to back division titles since the 30s. it may be first time they’ve made the postseason in back to back years, even more amazing
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:40 PM
So, anyone else here really looking forward to Thursday and Friday? Should be amazing TV.
Oh, and no post about FOX/MLB lifting the Saturday blackout restrictions? Good work, Bud.
Yup.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:40 PM
I think they made this post just so Queefer could continue to bitch about MLB and the wild card situation.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:40 PM
Nats, O’s, whoever, it’s not fair. One travel day fixes this. Dumb.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:41 PM
/cues up “Modern Day Delilah” on the ol’ iPod
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:41 PM
I’ve come around to actually like the Wild Card as a one-game play-in. It seems fair enough that if you don’t win the division you’re assured of almost nothing
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:41 PM
I would love to see the Yankees go one and done (for multiple reasons). But for sake of argument, it will hurt ratings.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:41 PM
The White Sox have never made the playoffs in consecutive seasons so Detroit’s got another one up on them
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:41 PM
I doubt “dont watch” is a mantra baseball can afford to hold.
/EiC
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:41 PM
Nats, O’s, whoever, it’s not fair. One travel day fixes this. Dumb.
They still have more home games than the team with the lessor record.. how is it not fair? Ideal? No. But not fair? Come on.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:42 PM
On the radio here in ATL this morning they said the WC play in game will either be at 4pm or 8pm. The Braves will probably play at 4 if the Yankees are in the AL Wild Card play in game.
/primetime
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:43 PM
The Braves will probably play at 4 if the Yankees are in the AL Wild Card play in game.
On a Friday?
Plenty of seats still available at the Ted I’m sure.
/sits in 330 on a Friday rush hour ATL traffic
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:43 PM
I’d be more in favor of making the two worst records play the single game, winning the AL Central doesn’t automatically mean your season was better than either Oakland’s or Baltimore’s
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:44 PM
Nats, O’s, whoever, it’s not fair. One travel day fixes this. Dumb.
I’m going off the assumption it’s a problem with TV scheduling more than anything else. As for those two teams, the Orioles could very easily be a one-year wonder but the Nationals seem pretty solid. I hope the O’s are legit but they’ve got a lot of spare parts making up that roster
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:44 PM
How is it home field advantage if the other team gets two cracks at home before the team technically with home field advantage gets any? Criminally unfair.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:44 PM
Not sure why a three-game playoff would assure anyone of anything, but OK.
I get that the inherent drama of a one-game playoff makes for good TV. If I’m a baseball team with no rooting interest, I’m pretty stoked about it. However, if (and believe me this is a hy-po-thetical) I’m a fan of a smaller market team stuck in a stacked, money-soaked division with a once-in-a-decade chance to advance through the MLB playoffs, this is grade A horseshit.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:47 PM
Being down 0-2 is a huge burden mentally. That’s why it’s such an advantage to win the first two for a home team in a normal series. Go down 0-2 and have the pressure to know that you have to win 3 in a row? It’s a massive fail.
And, if I read things right, the fail is on the player’s union, who would not waive the travel clauses in order to make the series setup better.
To be honest, the whole playoff setup is just dumb. It’s an attempt to re-create the magic that happened on the last day last year. You don’t re-create that stuff with rules and major tweaks to the game.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:47 PM
I’m a fan of a smaller market team stuck in a stacked, money-soaked division with a once-in-a-decade chance to advance through the MLB playoffs, this is grade A horseshit.
No.
–The Oakland A’s, about 18 hours ago.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:48 PM
Speaking of hypotheticals. If the A’s hypothetically had any fans I’m sure they would be very upset that they are getting a playoff game this year instead of going home.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:48 PM
This I could tolerate. Gives everyone incentive to play every game.
I’d rather see the two teams with the worst record play a three-gamer, though. There’s something fundamentally wrong with having a 162-game baseball season reduced to a anything-can-happen one-game playoff. If it’s to decide a division then OK: that’s within the framework of the season. But to “expand the playoffs” and then stick the two Wild Cards right into this shit is classic Selig.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:49 PM
“The best commissioner in sports,” said no one.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:49 PM
Not sure why a three-game playoff would assure anyone of anything, but OK.
It doesn’t but it also doesn’t make things particularly compelling for a broad demographic and adds even more time to a postseason that is extending farther than it “should” to begin with. The idea is that “hey, people love play-in games when two teams are tied, why don’t we just schedule one and have it every year?”
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:50 PM
Scores of people on here have made that argument. Compellingly.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:50 PM
“The best commissioner in sports,” said no one.
Aside from me. Goodell, Stern and Bettman? Ha.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:51 PM
I agree with you about the rationale. If they truly wanted to improve the playoffs they wouldn’t have come up with some stupid five-team setup.
Like I said before, I’d rather have the old setup with less of a chance to make the playoffs but a fair shot at advancing if I do than to reduce six months of work into a four-hour crapshoot. I understand if people feel otherwise.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:51 PM
uh, says a lot of people.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:51 PM
There’s something fundamentally wrong with having a 162-game baseball season reduced to a anything-can-happen one-game playoff.
This has happened many times before with extra games to decide the division. Twins/Sox and Padres/Rockies come to mind. How is that any different?
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:52 PM
This.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:52 PM
Queefer’s Jihad against the game of baseball and Bud is built upon a foundation of quicksand.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:52 PM
They can still win the west.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:52 PM
What team does this describe? Baltimore? If so, it’s only due to their own incompetence. A team in a smaller market won that division four years ago, and made the playoffs each of the last two years.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:53 PM
Selig>>>>Stern>>>>>>>>>Goodell>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bettman
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:53 PM
if you are to be the champ, win when you have to. it’s a cliche that teams with no home field advantage and worse regular seasons and low expectations and lower payrolls can win. boo fucking hoo, play baseball better than the opponent
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:53 PM
The former runs the most lucrative and popular sports league in the country, and the latter has overseen an NBA growing in relevance and popularity (and I’m no NBA fan, at all). Bettman I can’t make a case for.
But hey, Selig only fucked up like four or five things this year. Good enough for me.
/The Human Element
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:54 PM
A team in a smaller market won that division four years ago, and made the playoffs each of the last two years.
Milwaukee one the Central last year and advanced to the NLCS. HOW UNFAIR!
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:54 PM
cj the site chopping off half of Bettman’s name is PERFECT
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:54 PM
Should be changed to a 12 game season with teams vying to schedule the bottom feeders. Mets and Yankees stop playing each other after 2014. The championship game teams are based on votes and math. Half the remaining teams play their final games with corporate sponsors at neutral fields, replay is used throughout the league.
/Dusts off hands
//I could be commissioner!
///The hell is ‘baseball’?
////Is it anything like soccer baseball?
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:55 PM
holy shit “one?”
*WON. WON.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:55 PM
Are you using Dragon speech recognition software?
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:55 PM
Like I said before, that’s within the framework of the season and thus necessary. It wasn’t added under the guise of “expanding the playoffs.”
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:55 PM
Yeah he’s much better than Darth Goodell, Bettman and Stern.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:55 PM
Obviously something he should be given credit for.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:56 PM
This is groundbreaking stuff, Knute.
/thanks
//;
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:56 PM
Sure, sure. Has nothing to do with the Yankees, Red Sox and a lack of salary cap. It’s all their fault. All of it.
/Romney’d
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:56 PM
Like I said before, that’s within the framework of the season and thus necessary. It wasn’t added under the guise of “expanding the playoffs.”
I fail to see the relevance in how the game is labeled. It was a playoff game, correct? Lose and you go home, win and you play a ALDS/NLDS series.
Again, Quicksand.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:56 PM
I’m an O’s fan, too, this Wild Card shit doesn’t bother me. Odds are still decent that it’s the only reason they can say “We’ve been to the post-season this century!!!” And they’re honestly in trouble the longer a series goes because their starting pitching is not particularly good
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:57 PM
When TBL Baseball Fan is asked to point to reasons why Selig isn’t an incompetent assclown, “revenue streams” and “the sport’s popularity” are the go-to arguments. Can’t have it both ways. You can’t dismiss Godell’s running of the NFL while giving Selig credit for the same thing.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:57 PM
I fail to see the relevance in how the game is labeled.
*If your argument was against having a 162 game season decided with one game.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:57 PM
Lichtenstein has the highest GDP PPP in the world, Hans-Adam II is therefore the best leader in the world.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:58 PM
If you win one game then you have a chance to close out the series with your 3 games in a row at home.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:59 PM
DwanyeBowe, you’re not really a smart guy, are you? I don’t much care if you fail to see the difference. There is a difference whether you choose to accept that or not.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:59 PM
Bill Clinton was President during one of the most successful economic periods in the Country’s history, ergo, he was the best President EVAR.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:59 PM
Well there best player was on horse steroids during the NLDS. So yea.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:59 PM
Look, it would have probably been better for MLB to wait a year for the expanded postseason stuff if it meant these silly exceptions. But it’s really not a big deal. Money talks and the owners are sitting on giant piles of it that keep getting bigger.
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:59 PM
It’s been explained why this is a false equivalency more than once but you just don’t care…not worth the effort anymore
October 2nd, 2012 at 2:59 PM
DwanyeBowe, you’re not really a smart guy, are you? I don’t much care if you fail to see the difference. There is a difference whether you choose to accept that or not.
It would appear that more people are taking my side of the argument than yours, so I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Calling me unintelligent isn’t a way to win an argument.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:00 PM
Well there best player was on horse steroids during the NLDS. So yea.
MVP!
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:01 PM
So we’re clear, I don’t think Godell is a particularly good commissioner, and I hate how he bungled the Saints’ situation. But Selig is a runny turd.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:01 PM
No, but it is accurate
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:01 PM
I would have believed Vatican City raked in far more money per person.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:01 PM
Calling me unintelligent isn’t a way to win an argument.
No, but it is accurate
Neither is that.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:01 PM
HA. Thanks for this sizzling nugget.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:02 PM
And can’t keep labor peace, discipline players without it being overturned in court, maintain the integrity of competition, or get his league’s in house network available via every cable provider in a timely fashion.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:02 PM
Calling me unintelligent isn’t a way to win an argument.
Clearly you are not of the ATL_Badger school of thought when it comes to debate.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:02 PM
GODell under his watch has lead to: two lock outs, one with the players, one with the refs, the latter of which almost destroyed the integrity of the games being played when he decided to use scab personnel. He’s also sitting on a multi-billion dollar lawsuit from former players while paying lip service to player safety and issuing fines via GOD like powers. Players in his league are also furious at him. Oh and his completely bungled Bounty Gate investigation. And rampant steroid usage which is swept under the carpet by the media & league insiders. But yes, keep banging that drum for Darth Goodell. Worst commissioner outside of Bettman.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:03 PM
Clearly you are not of the ATL_Badger school of thought when it comes to debate.
Oh no. Do you know who I am?
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:03 PM
I would have believed Vatican City raked in far more money per person.
Priests and nuns don’t make shit.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:03 PM
It’s been explained. It’s just not correct. Just because you want something to be so (Goddell and Selig not being equal, a one-game playoff to decide the regular season vs. a one-game scenario in the first round of the playoffs) doesn’t mean it is.
Why is Selig a great commissioner?
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:03 PM
It’s just not correct.
Please, show your work ace.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:04 PM
Oh no. Do you know who I am?
Someone with multiple personality disorder?
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:04 PM
How much money have the Sox and Yankees given to the Orioles as part of revenue sharing since it began? How much did Angelos spend? It’s not the fault of the Sox and Yanks that the O’s are terribly run. Look at Tampa Bay who get about 10000 fans per game yet are still able to win with a tiny payroll. There is no need for a salary cap in baseball. There is a need for a salary floor so that the cheapskate owners don’t just pocket all the revenue sharing cash.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:04 PM
But that Pope rakes in billions.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:05 PM
Their per person legal fees getting in the way.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:05 PM
When the NFL cancels its Super Bowl on Goodell’s watch, then maybe we can talk.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:05 PM
Stern is still the leader in the clubhouse of commissioners I wouldn’t pee on while on fire.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:05 PM
Again, the Rays are in a smaller market than Baltimore, and won the division in 2008, and won the Wild Card in 2010 and 2011. If they can do it, then Baltimore can, too. Your once in a decade comment lacks any semblance of fact based support.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:06 PM
You’re welcome. Glad to have enlightened you.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:06 PM
So who is ready for the return of the 30 for 30 docs tonight? BROKE!
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:06 PM
But that Pope rakes in billions.
Red pumps don’t pay for themselves.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:06 PM
Philly, as much as I want it to be so, the officiating mess isn’t Goddell’s fault. It’s the owners’. The rest of that shit would have happened under anyone’s watch outside of the Saints bounty situation, which I agree was a joke.
Selig has had a strike, a massive steroid scandal that he both swept under the rug and dealt with terribly once it game to light, a All-Star game debacle, declining TV ratings and instant replay unrest. So I’m not really sure how he wins this.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:08 PM
pretty much, yeah.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:08 PM
Let’s just stop engaging Queefer. The man obviously can’t be reasoned with. Just let him sit there, watching a sport he hates, year after year. Shouting at his terrible commissioner.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:09 PM
There is a need for a salary floor so that the cheapskate owners don’t just pocket all the revenue sharing cash.
The O’s aren’t in baseball’s “little sisters of the poor” bracket either in terms of revenue or spending. They’re a mid-market team in almost every way it can be presented. They’ve tried to spend money stupidly but players haven’t taken it (see Mark Teixeira). This isn’t Jeffrey Loria we’re talking about here. Angelos is hateful but he’s not particularly stingy
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:09 PM
I would have said unintelligent
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:09 PM
Not Goodell’s fault. Like, at all? Had nothing to do with it. Alright.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:09 PM
The fuck I ever do to you hawkeye?
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:09 PM
This is quite the delicious irony
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:10 PM
How many games did the NFL have to cancel again?
Repeat: under Selig’s watch, MLB canceled its season and didn’t have a postseason/World Series.
Best commish evar!
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:10 PM
Extra chromosomes. You has them.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:10 PM
How many games did the NFL have to cancel again?
Repeat: under Selig’s watch, MLB canceled its season and didn’t have a postseason/World Series.
Best commish evar!
Pete Rozelle a terrible commissioner too? Those replacement players were great for the game!
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:11 PM
So I’m not really sure how he wins this.
The commissioner’s most basic task is to make the game more profitable and under Selig’s watch the game has grown in that regard at a higher rate than any other major sports league. That’s how he wins the argument. Related, Happy 10th Anniversary, MLB.tv!
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:11 PM
This is quite the delicious irony
Link to a topic I couldn’t be reasoned with on. GO.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:11 PM
And Mike, they said baseball would be dead because of it. whoops.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:11 PM
To be fair, the Yankees and Red Sox aren’t well run, either. They make just as many whiffs as the Orioles, they just have the pockets for it not to matter. Albert Belle signing crippled the Orioles for half a decade. Yankees blew more than a quarter a billion on Kevin Brown, Carl Pavano, Kei Ogawa, etc and didn’t miss a beat.
The Red Sox and Yankees can afford to buy the best talent at huge markups over fair market value. Those teams have huge margins for error. Baltimore doesnt.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:12 PM
What does that have to do with MLB canceling its World Series on Selig’s watch?
Canceled World Series + steroids embarrassment = best commish in sports.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:13 PM
Bud Selig can eat shit for the “build us a new stadium or lose your team” blackmail strategy of the last two decades.
And the rest of the league’s executives can do the same for copying it.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:13 PM
This was only a thing in MLB because people don’t care about PED use in football…the bluster over that was more for self-serving baseball writers to opine on than what you heard from fans
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:13 PM
I still want to know exactly who “somewhereoverthedwaynebowe” is. You guys didn’t let him answer.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:14 PM
Definitely, still bitter he didn’t make the Twins go away
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:14 PM
Bud Selig can eat shit for the “build us a new stadium or lose your team” blackmail strategy of the last two decades.
I’ve got some Minnesota Vikings fans and taxpayers on line one for you.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:14 PM
Should say “other league’s”.
The strategy has been enormously successful for baseball, FWIW. I’m sure the owners freaking love Bud.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:15 PM
Fans aren’t embarrassed by it, though. The HR chase single handedly saved baseball, letting steroids and Andro slide for as long as they needed to was a brilliant business decision.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:15 PM
Or did you mean the NFL by “rest of the league’s executives?”
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:15 PM
Absolutely. I meant to point out that the other leagues immediately realized it was a GREAT idea.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:15 PM
I still want to know exactly who “somewhereoverthedwaynebowe” is. You guys didn’t let him answer.
ATL_Badger
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:15 PM
Should say “other league’s”.
Oh, gotchya.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:15 PM
steroids embarrassment
I have to say that anyone who doesn’t think Adrian Peterson took some form of steroids to recover from knee surgery is an idiot.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:15 PM
18 years ago…I seem to remember a game two weeks ago being completely fucked up by a replacment ref. Baseball is better than ever with major young, marketable talent.
Oh yeah, toughest drug testing in sports was pushed in response to the steroid scandals.
The first major sweeping drug bust by the NFL, will be it’s first.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:16 PM
I’m sure it was Bud’s call for the owners to withhold ~$8 million that they were due to pay into the players pension fund. That’s what caused the strike.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:16 PM
To be fair, claims of Selig being the best of the current crop are heavily stacked upon the fact that Stern and Bettman are incompetent, the former ludicrously corrupt, and Goodell has inherited a golden goose ans thusfar only has scandals as his legacy.
The competition for the title is not steep.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:17 PM
Best Commish = Smartest Retard
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:17 PM
I love the idea that steroids are a ‘black eye’ on the MLB but not the NFL. Tee-hee, tee-hee.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:19 PM
Remember when a roided out baseball player ended a teammates career by beating him half to death in practice?
Oh wait.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:19 PM
and Bud has overcome both, though I don’t think baseball was ever really embarrassed, like you say, and record revenue continues.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:19 PM
yes, Selig is at fault for baseball’s ratings declining. Queefer, MLB’s ratings have decreased SINCE THE FUCKING 1970s with the rise of the NFL. The ratings argument is a total pile of a shit and just thrown in for shits and giggles.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:19 PM
I love the idea that steroids are a ‘black eye’ on the MLB but not the NFL. Tee-hee, tee-hee.
turns blind eye to steroids shipped directly to carolina panthers the year they went to superbowl…. you know, to avoid that pesky black eye.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:19 PM
What is the difference between Boston and Baltimore when it comes to market size that gives the Sox such an advantage? Baltimore should have had a huge advantage over Boston prior to the arrival of the Nationals based on market size.
The Sox have been intelligently run up until Theo started throwing money around like a moron/ FSG bought Liverpool and stopped paying attention. You can’t tell me that the current ownership group didn’t run the Sox well with the way that team has become a cash cow. The Sox have even been able to do that while having an old ballpark that seats 10000 less than Camden Yards.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:20 PM
If I can play basketball 6 months after ACL surgery, then he can play football 9 months after ACL surgery.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:20 PM
BLIND EYE >>>>>> BLACK EYE
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:21 PM
turns blind eye to steroids shipped directly to carolina panthers the year they went to superbowl…. you know, to avoid that pesky black eye
The NFL cleaned up that mess right quick, too. Todd Sauerbrun hasn’t received an MVP vote since
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:21 PM
The Yankees and Red Sox are run exceptionally well.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:21 PM
what?
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:21 PM
did you say black eye or black guy?
/hard of hearing racist’d
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:22 PM
The NFL cleaned up that mess right quick, too. Todd Sauerbrun hasn’t received an MVP vote since
tragedy.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:23 PM
Wouldn’t 1994 MikeNYC have been supporting Selig not backing down on player demands and then being upset when he eventually did?
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:23 PM
STINK EYE>>>>>>>>>>> EVIL EYE
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:23 PM
I didn’t care for that film.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:23 PM
pfft…semantics..
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:24 PM
What is the difference between Boston and Baltimore when it comes to market size that gives the Sox such an advantage?
NESN. The Orioles are leveraged wildly into MASN but I’m guessing that investment is starting to turn the corner for them. They don’t have it to themselves but you’re more or less correct in your general argument. The Red Sox don’t have a natural advantage over the Orioles in terms of market size.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:24 PM
Shh…. Let the poor O’s fan feel better. He can’t even be happy that his team is making the playoffs.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:25 PM
The NFL has grown larger in the same time period, too, though.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:25 PM
Still think that’s true now? I can see that in the pre-Nationals days.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:26 PM
As much as I crush Cashman over the years for his bad job getting free agent pitchers, he runs the Yankees so much better than anyone has run the Orioles in decades.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:26 PM
I’ve compiled my favorite comments from this thread into a handy document: http://goo.gl/G0J0j
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:26 PM
What is the difference between Boston and Baltimore when it comes to market size that gives the Sox such an advantage?
Huge. Red Sox have pretty much all of New England. Baltimore is sandwiched in between Philly and DC.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:26 PM
BROWN EYE > BLIND EYE >>>>>> BLACK EYE
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:26 PM
You mean Darth Goodell’s ego has grown larger?
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:27 PM
The NFL has grown larger in the same time period, too, though.
All Goodell’s doing. Obviously.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:27 PM
I seem to remember a perfect game being fucked up by a full-time umpire because the commissioner would not institute an instant replay system.
If youre going to bang Goddell for the officials, this is fair game.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:28 PM
Reading through this thread and one thing is apparent, Queefer is a fucking idiot.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:28 PM
I don’t see the same hatred and vitriol coming from MLB players toward Selig that I do NFL players toward Goodell either. But, what do I know. I’m just an unintelligent person who begins sentences with “but.”
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:28 PM
so you’re asserting that all businesses should be able to rise together and none are affected by the sharp rise of a competitor? If I use your logic, when Walmart came to prominence, KMart, Ames, Sears, and all other department stores should have been able to sustain and not fall down the drain…
Baseball is still profitable. It doesn’t fit the “ratings” buzzword that people use in lazy arguments, mostly due to the emergence of regional networks and people having more entertainment options.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:29 PM
But it’s all Selig’s doing that baseball has grown, right?
Double standards are hilarious.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:29 PM
Stinks like sex in here.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:29 PM
Not sure why anyone is surprised baseball can’t come up with a uniform set of rules. This is a sport that has the pitcher bat in one league while the other uses that spot for
a true hitteran inept fielder.Fixed.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:29 PM
/moleman’d
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:30 PM
But it’s all Selig’s doing that baseball has grown, right?
Double standards are hilarious.
It’s…. not… a double standard?
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:30 PM
I clicked this. And I’d like to thank the fine people at YouTube for having a hot volleyball chicks video queue’d up in my recommendations section. Totally redeemed the experience.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:30 PM
Having the most money to spend doesnt make you shrewd GM. It just makes your job easier, both in terms of attracting talent and mitigating mistakes.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:31 PM
Baseball players: Selig is the best. Guaranteed contracts, bitches!
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:31 PM
Just wait, if Goodell gets his way there will be a SB in London, and a franchise there as well.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:31 PM
OK.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:31 PM
When you hear about things being resolved in the NFL, how often is it Goodell that is really involved? The negotiations lately (including TV) have been handled for a huge part by Bob Kraft. Goodell is just there to punish players.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:32 PM
Orioles have always had money to spend. They just have an owner too stingy and arrogant to give a fuck about the team.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:32 PM
Goodell will get fired before that is allowed to happen
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:33 PM
I find that jingle to be indescribably soothing.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:33 PM
better get to making us some breakfast
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:33 PM
Goodell will get fired before that is allowed to happen
Owners won’t fire him if they see the % of the expansion fee that’d go into their pockets.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:34 PM
Again, completely untrue. They spend money. They’re usually middle of the pack. They just cant get free agents to come there because A) the Yankees and Red Sox overbid and B), they dont want to go up against the Yankees and Red Sox.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:34 PM
I only popped into this chatroom briefly to see if QueeferSutherland was indeed an expert in baseball, like he is in football and politics.
It’s truly, truly impressive. The man is without equal.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:34 PM
Didn’t affect the outcome of a game, but we’ve already established that you’re a false equivalency All Star.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:35 PM
Kraft & Mara doing work. It was all Woody, Richardson & Jerry Jones (and I’m sure Spanos, Hunt and Ross) trying to break the players and the refs. Makes sense considering their political disposition.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:35 PM
That’s the players’ union, no?
Still waiting on what makes Selig a great commissioner. So far I’ve heard “revenue” and “popularity,” two things the NFL has done in greater amounts during the same time period.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:35 PM
Dirt is the wisest man in Vermont
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:36 PM
You can’t expect to get anywhere in business by being a pussy.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:36 PM
Care to explain how the O’s let this situation occur? You’re focusing completely on the currently well run Red Sox and neglecting the previously terribly run/racist Sox of the 1920′s – 2000′s. The O’s screwed things up long before the Sox became actual players in terms of winning anything or having the money to overbid.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:36 PM
this is what you fucking get for a season without yardwork, tbl
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:36 PM
Peter Angelos is a billiionaire, so being “middle of the pack” is unacceptable.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:36 PM
They just cant get free agents to come there because A) the Yankees and Red Sox overbid and B)
So you’re saying the Yankees and Red Sox have exactly the same free agent needs as the Orioles… every year.. and the only reason the Orioles don’t get them is that the other two teams outbid them SEEMS.. implausible.
Link to one player the Orioles showed interest in that the Yankees eventually signed. Texiera? Throwing money at him to join a crappy team (at the time) doesn’t make much business sense.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:37 PM
So it’s fine then. Gotcha.
Greedy owners lock out officials and games are affected = Goddell’s fault
Selig refuses to institute instant replay causing a perfect game to be lost = not Selig’s fault.
OK.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:38 PM
The Yankees and Red Sox sole reason for existing is to fuck up anything the Orioles have ever wanted.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:38 PM
The spotlight is shined brightest on the NFL because it’s actually nationally relevant. Baseball fans hate to admit it, but theirs is a regional, niche sport that rarely attracts a national story line. So when Goodell missteps, everyone hears about it.
If baseball were using replacement umpires, would it even move the needle? Would it be on Good Morning America?
Now, if the NFL were forced to cancel its Super Bowl …
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:38 PM
I appreciate Galarraga’s perfecto being taken away, all but certifies that Phil Humber will be the worst pitcher to toss one for years to come (all due respect to Dallas Bradon of course)
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:39 PM
and the only reason the Orioles don’t get them is that the other two teams outbid them SEEMS..
implausiblevery plausible and highly likely.Fixed for the masses that may not read all of the comments.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:39 PM
If baseball were swayed by gambling as much as football is, then yes.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:40 PM
The Orioles definitely bear part of the blame here. They didn’t draft well, signed the wrong free agents, and didnt move quickly to counter the spending sprees of their northern neighbors.
You know who else did that though? The Yankees. NYY had the worst farm system in MLB and made awful signings. They also spent $200 million a year on All-Stars and won a bunch of WS along the way.
This bootstraps myth that any team can just draft well and compete is bullshit. Especially in the AL East.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:40 PM
Still think that’s true now? I can see that in the pre-Nationals days.
No, I didn’t state that particularly well. But the Orioles are still taking TV money from the D.C. market and everywhere else that MASN broadcasts (which includes DirecTV and Dish).
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:40 PM
Fixed for the masses that may not read all of the comments.
huh?
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:40 PM
If baseball were using replacement umpires, would it even move the needle?
they pulled a Reagan/Air Traffic Controller thing on a bunch of striking umpires within recent memory.
Also of note, I have zero recollection of replacement NFL officials from 2001
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:40 PM
It’s easier to officiate baseball so the screw ups wouldn’t be as frequent
And no one tries to argue that MLB is on the same plane as the NFL, not sure why it has to be repeatedly pointed out
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:41 PM
This bootstraps myth that any team can just draft well and compete is bullshit. Especially in the AL East.
Okay. I’ll just let this simmer. I’m done.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:41 PM
I must have been dreaming what the Tampa Bay Rays have done under their current management.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:41 PM
This right here. A HUGE part of footballs popularity is from gambling.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:42 PM
That too, so again we have something that makes the NFL extremely popular which – at least publicly – is something the league office has no hand in
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:42 PM
they pulled a Reagan/Air Traffic Controller thing on a bunch of striking umpires within recent memory.
Yes they did.
And it was a rather big deal at the time.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:43 PM
This bootstraps myth that any team can just draft well and compete is bullshit. Especially in the AL East.
Well this is wrong.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:43 PM
Comment of the year.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:44 PM
This bootstraps myth that any team can just draft well and compete is bullshit. Especially in the AL East.
Umm, no it’s not. Just because the Yankees can get away with having a poorly stocked system for a few years (and it was really only like 2 years) doesn’t mean that other teams can’t get on their level through the draft and market inefficiencies. Witness the Rays, A’s, and (gulp) Red Sox. And the Yankees when they first turned things around 17 years ago, too, for that matter.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:44 PM
Yes, Tampa can’t compete. They obviously didn’t go to the world series in 2008. Just back away from the computer, go take a walk..you’re in a losing battle.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:44 PM
That ‘bunch’ is one and it cost them approximately 2 billion dollars.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:44 PM
They won the division twice. After half a decade of being the worst team in all of baseball. They also had to jettison half of their talent after the WS appearance because they couldn’t afford them.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:45 PM
I think it’s time to use my Considerable Influence…
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:46 PM
They also had to jettison half of their talent after the WS appearance because they couldn’t afford them.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. (pause) Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:46 PM
I don’t agree with Mike often, but it is obvious baseball takes a backseat once football begins, which isn’t groundbreaking by any means. I wouldn’t go so far as to call it niche when stands are still packed, sans Miami and the like. It is depressing Miggy’s triple crown is barely being talked about except for MLB Network and idiots here arguing Trout deserves the award.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:46 PM
But the Orioles are still taking TV money from the D.C. market
True. The long time Orioles fans in the burbs of DC (Montgomery and PG Counties) have, in general, remained O’s fans. The closer to the city, you find the bandwagon-ers.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:46 PM
Selig has been at the helm for 20 years. Goodell, six. Even if they were running the same company, this is still apples and oranges.
The long career arc means you can judge Selig a little easier. You can’t really with Goodell, especially with so much turmoil looming and the inevitable death on the field that is going to happen to some commissioner. He did get through the labor situation with both players and refs. Plenty of criticism, sure, but it’s done.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:47 PM
Teams that have drafted well and competed for playoffs at one time or another in the past 10 years: Mid-2000s Indians and Twins, 2012 Oakland Athletics and Baltimore Orioles, Tampa Bay Rays for the past 6-7 years, Florida Marlins 2003, Washington nationals 2011-present, Arizona Diamondbacks 2008-2011, San Diego Padres 2010.
That’s just off the top of my head.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:47 PM
I think it’s time to use my Considerable Influence…
what beer are you going to Jedi Mind Trick me into hating now?
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:47 PM
Surviving on a small payroll works in very short does and leaves a razor-thin margin of error. I’m not sure how that’s in dispute.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:47 PM
Ty Detmer has also never won a Heisman.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:48 PM
Wrong. All baseball owners CAN afford to spend at least 100 million in payroll every year. They just don’t have to or want to because there is no requirement to do so.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:48 PM
I like watching football and baseball, someday maybe the internet will set aside the rulers and realize this isn’t a zero-sum game
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:48 PM
They won the division twice. After half a decade of being the worst team in all of baseball. They also had to jettison half of their talent after the WS appearance because they couldn’t afford them.
And they were in the AL East race almost the entire year this year. They are going to win over 90 games in an extremely tough division. It’s not as though they are the 1998 Florida Marlins.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:48 PM
FWIW: The Rays have had a better record than the Red Sox in four of the last five seasons.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:48 PM
How many of those teams sustained that success?
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:49 PM
I like to think of this as Professional Sports Thunderdome.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:50 PM
This is true. I should have said, they thought they could not afford them. I’d be fine with a salary cap and a salary floor.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:50 PM
Any pumpkin varietal.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:50 PM
you do know that those teams that won 4 from 1996-2000 weren’t the 200 million dollar payroll days, right? You do realize a lot of those guys were home grown, right? When the Yankees starting overpaying in the 2000s, they didnt win anything until 2009.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:50 PM
Surviving on a small payroll works in very short does and leaves a razor-thin margin of error. I’m not sure how that’s in dispute.
I’m not sure that anyone is disputing exactly that. Clearly the Yankees can more easily make mistakes than other teams can. But the Rays and A’s and other teams have clearly shown that you can have long term success with a smaller payroll. The makeup of the front office is integral for long term success in baseball. A good GM and staff can set a team up to win for a decade. A shitty one can hamstring them for even longer.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:50 PM
I like to think of this as Professional Sports Thunderdome.
I like that
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:50 PM
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:51 PM
They are going to win over 90 games in an extremely tough division.
Quiet, you
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:51 PM
speaking of the Marlins, that ownership and front office can all go away any time now. One of the worst run organizations in American sports.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:51 PM
How many of those teams sustained that success?
What the fuck are you talking about? The Rays have been in it for 5 years with a bottom of the barrel payroll. How long do they have to do this for? A decade? 2?
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:52 PM
Bengals versus Marlins in a who gives a shit deathmatch.
I’d take Loria, that sleezy fucker is going to be left with the cockroaches after the nukes are launched.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:53 PM
Hey look, those goal posts that were right here a minute ago are now way over there!
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:53 PM
speaking of the Marlins, that ownership and front office can all go away any time now.
Well, the ownership did play an integral role in bringing baseball back to DC. So they’ve got some goodwill stored up in the commissioner’s office
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:54 PM
mike brown is a crotchety old man but at least the bengals are getting better and making half-decent decisions. Marlins make empty promises, swindle the community, sell off players after a half season, and then pussy out by saying they won’t spend as much money next year.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:56 PM
Well, the ownership did play an integral role in bringing baseball back to DC. So they’ve got some goodwill stored up in the commissioner’s office
Jeffrey Loria has got to be up there in any list of scumbag owners. What a cockface.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:56 PM
I would like to think Arizona is going to pitch its way to the next 5-10 NL West titles.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:56 PM
it says a lot when a bitter houston fans trashes another owner
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:57 PM
Outlier teams happen all the time. The question is not whether it’s possible to make the playoffs with a smallish payroll. You absolutely can. Here and there, anyway. Sustaining that success is next to impossible.
The Rays are good right now. The As were good from about 2000-2004 until they had to get rid of all their talent. This is their first winning season in six years. Outside of that, I’m not sure what other examples there are of teams winning long-term without spending lots of money.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:57 PM
it says a lot when a bitter houston fans trashes another owner
I’m a bitter Houston fan?
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:57 PM
between Arizona and SF, fantastic pitching. As long as the Dodgers lose out, its cool
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:57 PM
I would like to think Arizona is going to pitch its way to the next 5-10 NL West titles.
and hey… look at that, they won the division last year… and appeared in an NLCS a few years ago with a completely different team… and WHOA… BEAT THE YANKEES to WIN A TITLE? ZOMG.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:57 PM
oh ms621, ok you’re not bitter. maybe just a frustrated astros fan
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:58 PM
Jeffrey Loria has got to be up there in any list of scumbag owners. What a cockface.
He really is probably the worst thing going in sports. I’ve got a notion that Miami is a little bit of a sleeping giant in terms of what a baseball team can make there so I’m interested to see what happens once he’s gone. If they can find a baseball equivalent of what Cuban has done in Dallas that could be fun to watch.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:59 PM
oh ms621, ok you’re not bitter. maybe just a frustrated astros fan
I can see how some of my spite for Ed Wade and Tim Purpura can make me seem bitter in the past, so it’s understandable. I’m not really frustrated right now though. I love what Luhnow is doing and I love that Crane is giving him room to enact his plan. It is a 180 from what McLane was doing in his last 6-7 years as an owner.
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:59 PM
And the Red Sox had 2003-2008.. wait a minute…
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:01 PM
I would take Giancarlo Stanton on my team any day of the week.
Jose Reyes can go lick taint
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:01 PM
To be fair. That title was bought and paid for. They just finished up paying the deferred money to RJ and Schilling and a bunch others last year.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:01 PM
And our farm system right now gives me a borderline erection.
Yes, I said erection.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:01 PM
Rule number one to run a succesful baseball franchise:
Have management in place that knows what the fuck they are doing.
I dont care if you spend 50 million, or 250 million, if you have idiots at the top that dont have a clue, success will be few and far between regardless of the money you spend.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:03 PM
Since when does being good for 5 years not long enough? How many NFL franchises are good/great for longer than that? Shit, even the Patriots have missed the playoffs a few times. And, regarding your “outlier!” bullshit, that’s where I’ll put the Patriots.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:03 PM
I would take Giancarlo Stanton on my team any day of the week.
He might be my favorite non-Oriole right now
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:04 PM
Payroll rankings of those seasons: 4, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:05 PM
You do realize you just fucked up your own point do you not?
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:05 PM
Kinda disagree. Competence helps, but you can screw up a lot more with $250 million than you can with $25M.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:06 PM
Packers have 2 losing seasons since 1992
/Belt
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:07 PM
Kinda disagree. Competence helps, but you can screw up a lot more with $250 million than you can with $25M.
A competent staff keeps someone from making many mistakes. See, if you’re smart, you do less stupid things. Brian Cashman spends money the way he does because he has the resources to. If he went to Kansas City tomorrow you can bet your ass that his team building strategy would change in a hurry.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:07 PM
I was going to mention the Eagles but it just makes me sad.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:08 PM
Tell that to the Mets.
I’m confused about the whole big market/small market thing. Who exactly are the big market teams in the NL? Mets? Cubs? Dodgers?
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:08 PM
Not really. The Red Sox won two World Series during that time period. Only one of those years did they finish with less than 90 wins. They spent money and won.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:08 PM
I was going to mention the Eagles but it just makes me sad.
You’ll always have TO.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:08 PM
I forgot Philly.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:08 PM
technically speaking – Mets, Cubs, Dodgers, Gigantes, Phillies
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:08 PM
I did anyway. Winning the 8th of 9 over the lucky frauds helps.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:09 PM
not sure why I went spanish on the Giants there.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:09 PM
Yeah right. Those big market clubs sure are taking over the MLB arent they?
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:09 PM
Ravens: three losing seasons in 12 years.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:09 PM
Not really. The Red Sox won two World Series during that time period. Only one of those years did they finish with less than 90 wins. They spent money and won.
Yeah… and they played those huge BIG MONEY markets of Colorado and St. Louis to win those world series. This league is so unfair.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:10 PM
The more money the Red Sox spent the worse they got, once they broke from Theo drafting and developing/dealing and just went for the FA splurges they went to shit
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:10 PM
Then what happened the last few years?
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:11 PM
Fire Larry Lucchino
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:11 PM
Ah fuck, now you’re going to tell us how good Flacco is, aren’t you.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:13 PM
They won two World Series, though. Recently. I’d happily suffer through some rebuilding with two rings.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:14 PM
I’d happily suffer through some rebuilding with two rings.
LOL. Weren’t you on the “sustain success” brigade not 10 minutes ago?
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:14 PM
Since 2008? 95 wins, 89 wins, 90 wins.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:14 PM
You really missed the point there…we’ve reached a point now where I’m doubting you’re being straight here as no one can be this oblivious, there has to be some level of troll-dom at play here, right?
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:15 PM
But they were only good for like six years. Per your retarded rubric, they haven’t had sustained success. So, you’ve once again proved yourself stupid.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:15 PM
Missing the 69 at the end of the list
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:15 PM
/high fives
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:16 PM
The Red Sox have clearly sustained success for over a decade. This is their first losing season since 1997. They’ve been to five ALCSs and won two WS.
What in the hell are you talking about?
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:16 PM
The Suns are the 4th winning-est franchise in NBA History!
/this is the extent of my feeling bad for you
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:17 PM
Denver Broncos. Five losing seasons in the last thirty (since Elway’s rookie year), and two of those were only 7-9. The other three were the McDaniels debacle (2010: 4-12), the year after Elway retired (1999: 6-10), and 1990 (5-11). In that same span, 13 seasons of 10+ wins.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:17 PM
Missing the 69 at the end of the list
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:17 PM
Too lazy to do it myself, but would love to see Lisk run the correlation coefficients between MLB payrolls and wins and compare it to NBA payrolls and wins, say, over the last ten years or so. I did find a link on fangraphs that has some of the baseball data.
I’m also curious about how the new CBA will affect these numbers. As a Red Sox fan I’m not happy with it, but maybe I’m just being negative. There are opinions on both sides regarding how it will affect the big spending teams.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:18 PM
What in the hell are you talking about?
see comment 275.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:18 PM
The Sox strategy since their last title has gone horribly wrong, there’s not really an argument to be made against that. You don’t ship out hundreds of millions of players on the cheap and blow it up just on a whim.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:19 PM
See post 278. In no world have the Red Sox done anything but win since they started spending money until this year.
You know who else hasn’t made the playoffs 3 straight years? The cubs!
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:19 PM
What’s your benchmark for success? Winning seasons or making the playoffs? Your problem is that you’ve started with a conclusion, then tried to reverse engineer an argument to suit it. When somebody presents evidence that disproves one of your points, you simply change the argument. Convenient, and a crutch of the simpleton.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:19 PM
The Red Sox have been good for 17 years. Three losing seasons in that span.
I’m dwaynebadger is a plant.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:20 PM
There are opinions on both sides regarding how it will affect the big spending teams.
There really isn’t much consensus at all. It’s hard to figure because it mostly affects the long-term player development models so we won’t even have reliable data for another 5 years.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:21 PM
I’m dwaynebadger is a plant.
Okay. But that makes you a rock.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:22 PM
Well, that’s a tough question to answer. When you’re the Yankees, success is winning a WS. When you’re the 2012 Orioles, its a winning season. All a matter of perspective.
The conclusion is simple and unassailable: overall, teams that spend less have a tougher time winning games than those that spend more. It’s not an ironclad rule, there are exceptions. But there are more instances of it being true than untrue.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:22 PM
They haven’t spent like drunken sailors that entire time though…when they came back against the Yankees in 2004 I believe there was a $75M difference in payroll, not the way of things anymore and they’re worse off for it
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:25 PM
They had the fourth highest payroll in baseball in 2004. They had the second highest in 2008.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:25 PM
The excitement over the #7 pick is fine, but it would be a lot better if 1) Mark Appel had a better than a #3 starter expecation, 2) there was any really exciting talent this year 3)top draft picks happened to work out more than 10% of the time and 4) didn’t take 4 years to reach the majors.
Other than that, I can’t wait!
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:28 PM
Ugh, I give up…will revisit this the next time McIntyre makes a payroll post regardless of which teams eventually make the World Series
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:30 PM
1) Mark Appel had a better than a #3 starter expecation
He’s enigmatic. He’s got great stuff but he’s inconsistent
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:30 PM
2007?
They’ve been pretty high up for a while. Keep in mind they gave Manny a huge deal in 2000 (?), so they haven’t exactly always scrounged for bargain FAs like they have been the last few years.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:30 PM
World Series teams aren’t always the best indicator of money = success. Sample size is relatively small there. Looking and playoff teams and division winners is a little better.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:31 PM
Also, there’s supposedly a bunch of decent LH pitchers in next year’s draft.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:32 PM
My bad, yes, 2007. They were second. They’ve been second in the league every year since 2004 with the exception of 2009 (fourth).
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:33 PM
Payroll and wins has a pretty decent correlation, IIRC. It’s just not as strong as some might make it. MLB needs rich/popular (NYY) teams to have an advantage. But poorer teams can still compete. It’s really a pretty nice system. Only in the NFL could crappy markets pull good ratings/interest.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:33 PM
World Series teams aren’t always the best indicator of money = success. Sample size is relatively small there. Looking and playoff teams and division winners
So we’re going by playoff appearances now, eh? The Red Sox, Cubs, and Mets haven’t made the playoffs for 3 years!
/dances around
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:41 PM
1) Mark Appel had a better than a #3 starter expecation
He’s enigmatic. He’s got great stuff but he’s inconsistent
starkweather=Joe Morgan?
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:46 PM
Whoa man, let’s not say shit we can’t take back.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:46 PM
starkweather=Joe Morgan?
Ha. I had something else typed out about him never having good numbers but I couldn’t remember if it was actually him I was thinking of. He might have put up good numbers but he’s consider more of an upside kind of pick. So, basically, yeah, that was a Joe Morgan scouting report.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:51 PM
I was under the impression Appel was a more polished pitcher, with less upside but higher floor.
The scouting report is pretty nice though. Not sure if he can dominate in the pros. Very few pitchers can.
http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2012/09/18/potential-red-sox-draftees-stanford-rhp-mark-appel/
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:52 PM
Appel looks like he has all the tools, but the report on him this past year was that his strikeout numbers were extremely low. For someone who has all the tools of being a strikeout pitcher, the fact that he can’t seem to actually strike kids out scared most teams away. Though the Astros will give him another good look this year. Yay for having the #1 pick again.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:56 PM
I genuinely hope Appel loses his pitching arm in a bus accident the day before the draft.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:59 PM
I hope he has another year like last season and the Pirates draft him again.
October 2nd, 2012 at 4:59 PM
I’m pretty sure he’s not going to the Bucs. Who was the dude who called him out on Twitter? I don’t think you can really hate on a guy for passing up all his leverage and going back to school, can you?
October 2nd, 2012 at 5:00 PM
I mean I can hate him but I understand his move, but it was also a very high risk move.
I hate the CBA and ESPN more than anything though. That’s what caused this.
October 2nd, 2012 at 5:01 PM
Holy shit. http://www.weather.com/news/supersonic-skydiver-20120926
October 2nd, 2012 at 5:03 PM
I guess it’s not that much crazier than other jumps he and others did, but still… why???
I can’t see him getting more than the Bucs offered him last year. He could end up really fucking with his career.
October 2nd, 2012 at 5:05 PM
If Mark Appel turns out like Aaron Crow and Luke Hochevar, that might just be punishment enough.
October 2nd, 2012 at 5:12 PM
I believe you mean “All Star Aaron Crow”
/idiot Royals fans