Marty Schottenheimer Will Never Be in the Hall of Fame, Tom Coughlin Will, Because of Fumbles and Fate
Marty Schottenheimer is one of the best coaches of all-time. It is doubtful, though, that he will ever be selected for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Tom Coughlin may have very well cemented his position in the Hall of Fame some day (though Tom Flores would like a word) with his second run to a Super Bowl title.
If you look at their regular season records, it’s not particularly close, and that’s no slight against Coughlin, who ranks 19th all-time in wins. Marty Schottenheimer is at 6th on the list, sandwiched between Hall of Fame coaches. Schottenheimer is 200-126-1; Coughlin is 142-114.
Of course, then there are the playoffs. Both men have now coached in exactly 18 postseason games after last season. Schottenheimer is a dreadful 5-13, while Tom Coughlin has two magical runs to Super Bowl titles out of the wildcard round, and is 11-7. It’s easy then, to look at those 18 games and wipe everything else away. What are the chances, though, that they are really more similar, and any judgments are based on luck factors?
Marty Schottenheimer is known for Marty Ball, hard-nosed defensive football, kicking field goals, and creating turnovers. That settling for field goals thing is what most would point to. You might be surprised to learn, then, that Coughlin’s teams have attempted slightly more field goals per game than Schottenheimer’s in the postseason. Schottenheimer’s opponents also had slightly more than him (36 to 35). The difference, of course, was the percentage of makes. Marty’s kickers missed 14 of their 35 playoff kicks, so that his opponents, despite basically the same number of attempts, made 8 more.
Then there are the fumbles. Forcing fumbles (or not fumbling on offense) is a skill. Recovering a forced fumble and having it bounce the right way is not. Schottenheimer’s teams actually forced more fumbles in the postseason than their opponents. They recovered fewer. In three different playoff games–three different gut punch games that would qualify as the worst for most coaches–Schottenheimer’s opponents went a perfect 5 for 5 in recovering every fumble. Those are huge swings if the recovery luck is merely average, and all of them were decided late.
Those games were the ridiculous loss to New England in 2006, where the last lost fumble was after an interception of Tom Brady on fourth down; the loss by Kansas City to the Colts in 1995, where the Colts fumbled four times but recovered all of them, while Lin Elliott missed three field goals; and the infamous “The Fumble” Game in 1987. Earnest Byner’s goal line fumble was merely the fifth of the day, all recovered by the Broncos.
As much as we don’t like to contemplate the role of old fashioned luck, it plays a huge role. A catch off a helmet here, a fumble in overtime by a punt returner there, a goal line fumble somewhere else, or a fumble after a game saving interception, and perception is vastly different. I would like to think we can strip those things away, but I doubt it.
[photo via US Presswire]

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36 Responses to “Marty Schottenheimer Will Never Be in the Hall of Fame, Tom Coughlin Will, Because of Fumbles and Fate”
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September 6th, 2012 at 6:40 PM
That’s astounding. Nate Kaeding and Lin Elliot have to be responsible for at least half of those misses.
September 6th, 2012 at 6:45 PM
The Pats are a good example too…just in the Super Bowls a different bounce in each and they are anywhere from 0-5 to 5-0.
September 6th, 2012 at 6:45 PM
Marty Schottenheimer will always be in the Tanner’s Hall of Fame. Too bad that happened pre-internet age. All the Google results were message board comments.
September 6th, 2012 at 6:50 PM
Marty went to prevent defense on the Drive. That killed them. He let Chip Banks run around like a retard instead of mirroring Elway. He also was too loyal to some assistant coaches who underperformed.
He had two strong favorite Chargers teams blow games to the Jets and Pats. Conservative game plans when aggression was called for.
5-13 in the playoffs.
Great coach of the game but a mediocre tactician at the highest level. He couldn’t get it done and while some bad bounces occurred, he caused a lot of his own misery and a lot of those losses he had the better team going into the games.
/there’s a gleam
September 6th, 2012 at 6:53 PM
That Chargers-Pats playoff game was an all-timer. That moron could have taken a knee and the game was over, instead he ran around and Troy Brown stripped him. Troy Brown was a gamer.
September 6th, 2012 at 6:57 PM
My dog still walks funny from the kick I gave him after goddamn Marlon Mccree dropped that interception.
September 6th, 2012 at 7:07 PM
LDT should have had 40 carries in that New England game. Every sweep they ran gained 5 or more yards
September 6th, 2012 at 7:11 PM
very well said.
phenomenal motivator, always had disciplined teams, but it’s hard not to think his conservative approach hurt him when the margins were so thin. always thought if you’re going out, empty the chamber…marty still has some ammo.
September 6th, 2012 at 7:13 PM
empty the chamber…marty still has some ammo. Spencer
That’s what he did inside of that Tanners waitress he impregnated.
September 6th, 2012 at 7:14 PM
School administrators are such pussies
September 6th, 2012 at 7:17 PM
School administrators are such pussies
Saw that a few days ago on Fox
September 6th, 2012 at 7:18 PM
empty the chamber…marty still has some ammo. A.P.
The administrators are just doing what the school board/district officials deems the rules. They risk their careers not cowtowing to idiots in power. I’m just saying your blame is misplaced. It is the BOE that are pussies.
September 6th, 2012 at 7:18 PM
In that photo above, Marty looks like the character Kent from Real Genius. Classic 80′s movie.
“What are you looking at? You’re laborers – you should be laboring. That’s what you get for not having an education!”
September 6th, 2012 at 7:19 PM
Fucking dumb, banning shirts with like 8 different numbers or something like that just because of possible gang affiliation.
September 6th, 2012 at 7:20 PM
They should rename 18th St. and thus the shirt would be allowable.
September 6th, 2012 at 7:21 PM
just because of possible gang affiliation.
America!
September 6th, 2012 at 7:22 PM
“What are you looking at? You’re laborers – you should be laboring. That’s what you get for not having an education!”
Is that a line from that movie? If so, and there’s more like it, I may have to see that.
September 6th, 2012 at 7:40 PM
Marty was way better than both Coughlin and Cowher, both of whom likely make it in.
September 6th, 2012 at 7:59 PM
Cowher’s got some bad playoff losses too. Probably b/c he’s from the Marty coaching tree.
September 6th, 2012 at 8:39 PM
Art Modell fired Paul Brown, fired Bill Belicheck – two of the best coaches in history. He also de facto fired Marty. 3 of the top 10 coaches in wins.
September 6th, 2012 at 8:48 PM
Billick made the radio rounds today…had nothing but great things to say bout modell
September 6th, 2012 at 8:54 PM
A.p. is it true the carrier dome has no ac? How embarrasing for an hvac company and syracuse. I heard it was like 110 in there for nw game
September 6th, 2012 at 9:03 PM
Way better at what? Marty stayed around long enough to accumulate some numbers, so what? His defenses were predictable and he couldn’t develop an offensive philosophy to save his life. Great regular season coach. If Mike Smith stays around long enough, he’ll get those wins too.
September 6th, 2012 at 9:04 PM
Pontiac Silverdome had no a.c. I was there for the World Cup games in 94 in the upper deck.
September 6th, 2012 at 9:05 PM
It also cracks me up how stats guys ridicule “the eye test” and play up the notion of luck.
September 6th, 2012 at 9:11 PM
Why can’t everyone just stay in one thread dammit. It was sickening seeing ESPN talk about Art Modell glowingly today. Fuck that guy. The Silverdome was garbage. And is Boise St. still joining the Big East?
September 6th, 2012 at 9:20 PM
Wrong, just wrong. He will eventually.
September 6th, 2012 at 9:22 PM
Have some popcorn.
September 6th, 2012 at 9:25 PM
Have some popcorn.
No Youtube videos at work. Or popcorn.
September 6th, 2012 at 9:29 PM
Or fun.
September 6th, 2012 at 9:31 PM
Meth, how’s it going? I’m in San Fran right now. Drove through the Utah and Nevada deserts the last coupla days. Whoa.
September 6th, 2012 at 9:38 PM
Pretty good, Nada. Since I worked the holiday I only have a 4 day week this week. Gotta take the small victories when you get them, ya know? A drive through the desert and Utah huh? Haven’t been out that way since I was a kid, so don’t remember too clearly but it sounds like that’d be a relaxing, borderline mind-numbingly boring, drive. Enlighten me.
September 6th, 2012 at 9:49 PM
MM
Join the party pal
/in that other thread
//die hard
September 6th, 2012 at 10:01 PM
“There’s a gleam, men…”
I miss Marty. Would take him over Norval raght naaaow.
September 6th, 2012 at 10:31 PM
Stayed around? Marty didnt limp along with the same franchise chocking up wins. Dude went to bad team after bad team and turned them into winners. Last place to #1 seeds. Then he leaves and those teams went back to being losers. Great coach.
WWW – we will win
September 7th, 2012 at 8:49 AM
Coughlin took an expansion team to the Conference Championship game in his second season. He left an expansion team with a winning record. He brought discipline to an undisciplined Giants team with a rookie QB, and made them 2 time (and counting) Super Bowl Champs. Add to that, he personally made Tiki Barber a back who now has consideration for the Hall. If you want to state the merits of Marty being in the Hall, that’s fine. But there’s no need to diminish Coughlin’s achievements in order to build up the minimal achievements of Marty.