Jason Kidd Should Be Done as a Starter, While Lakers Hope Steve Nash Ages Like Stockton
Jason Kidd and Steve Nash made big news this week, signing with teams in the two biggest markets in the NBA. Of course, given their respective histories, it is probably not surprising that the Lakers acquired the old point guard that is still leading the league in assists, while the Knicks acquired the one that showed marked decline in 2012. That differing outlook is reflected in their prices (Nash, 3 years for 27 million; Kidd, 3 years for 9 million). After the Rockets signed Jeremy Lin to an offer sheet, though, the Knicks either have to match or have Kidd play a larger role to which he is probably no longer suited.
In the NBA, only three point guards have averaged over 5 assists a game at age 37 or older, and two of them just changed teams. John Stockton, of course, is the other (Michael Jordan also averaged over 5 assists at age 38). Thus, while these two point guards have a long history of success in the league, trying to project play at an age when most point guards are providing color commentary is difficult. Only 9 other point guards have even averaged 5 assists a game at age 35 or older: John Stockton, Lenny Wilkens, Mark Jackson, Sam Cassell, Gary Payton, Rod Strickland, Dennis Johnson, Rickey Green, and Andre Miller.
Johnson retired after age 35, and Andre Miller was 35 last season. Among the others, any drops in assists were usually playing time related. They transitioned to backup roles and had their minutes reduced. Jason Kidd, on the other hand, saw his assist rate decline dramatically last year, going from 8.2 to 5.5 (8.9 to 6.9on a per 36 minutes played basis). The only other older point guard to decline so much in a season was The Glove, Gary Payton. He signed with Miami in 2006 and saw his assist rate cut in half on a per minute basis at age 37. He played one more year but did not rebound.
While we don’t know what will happen to Kidd, such a precipitous decline in assist rate is likely not good. He had his minutes reduced last year, but is probably at a point where he should be playing less than half the game.
Kidd and Nash have had differing aging curves. Kidd was the much better younger player, while Nash has developed later and been better in his 30′s. Stockton is the only other example of a point guard still going strong at this age. At 37, he averaged 8.6 assists. At 38, it was 8.7, followed by 8.2 and 7.7 per game. That gradual decline was mostly minutes related. He didn’t decline as a facilitator, just slowed down and didn’t play quite as many minutes. Nash has led the league in assists each of the last three seasons. I’m fine with taking a chance on elite players as they age, when they haven’t dropped off yet. Could he fall off at age 38 like Kidd? It could always happen with Father Time, but I’m guessing Nash ages more gracefully and can justify the move by the Lakers. He’ll just likely see his minutes dip below 30 per game (he was at 31.6 last year) as he moves toward 40.
[photo via US Presswire]

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79 Responses to “Jason Kidd Should Be Done as a Starter, While Lakers Hope Steve Nash Ages Like Stockton”
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July 6th, 2012 at 10:40 AM
The Knicks having to start Kidd will be hilarious. What a shit show.
July 6th, 2012 at 10:42 AM
did the Lakers still sign Ramon Sessions? or is he still unrestricted?
July 6th, 2012 at 10:42 AM
Sessions will be shown the door.
July 6th, 2012 at 10:43 AM
Sessions will be shown the door.
can they afford him? he’d be a nice backup. and the Lakers need someone who can defend the 1.
July 6th, 2012 at 10:43 AM
The Lakers still need an athletic wing for Nash to thrive. I wonder what they’ll do with Artest and Barnes.
July 6th, 2012 at 10:43 AM
I thought the Knicks said they would match Houston’s offer for Lin?
July 6th, 2012 at 10:44 AM
Do the Knicks really care about the Luxury Tax? Will they match on Lin? Economically, will they make the money back on Lin through China?
July 6th, 2012 at 10:45 AM
If they can land Grant Hill, I would think Barnes would be leaving thru the same door Sessions does. I think Artest stays, partially due to his horrible contract, but he can also still add some value on D.
July 6th, 2012 at 10:45 AM
The best thing that could happen to Jeremy Lin is to be tutored by Jason Kidd. Lin is not that good right now. After that two-week burst onto the scene, opponents started to figure him out.
July 6th, 2012 at 10:47 AM
But if they sign Sessions, they’ll still need someone who can defend the 1.
Sessions is a decent-to-good player, but he’s awful on D.
That’s why the “LOL who guards Westbrook/Chris Paul” stuff about the Lakers has been pretty ridiculous. They didn’t have anyone who could guard those players last week, and they still don’t.
Then again, who does?
July 6th, 2012 at 10:48 AM
I would think Artest would have to stay. I’m not sure how reliable Grant could be for a season. Towards the end of last year he was breaking down.
July 6th, 2012 at 10:50 AM
But if they sign Sessions, they’ll still need someone who can defend the 1.
Sessions is a decent-to-good player, but he’s awful on D.
would you say Sessions can defend better than Nash?
July 6th, 2012 at 10:51 AM
Oh like an Asian doesn’t know how to emotionally subjugate a woman already. COME ON.
July 6th, 2012 at 10:52 AM
the heat.
/high fives lebrontosaurus
July 6th, 2012 at 10:52 AM
Oh yeah. My point is it would be a bad use of resources. You wouldn’t sign an offensive PG to back-up your other offensive PG because he’s marginally better at defending PGs.
I think Sessions will end up in Dallas.
July 6th, 2012 at 10:55 AM
If the suns don’t pick up the option on Telfair then the Lakers should probably target him. Right price and a good backup for Nash.
July 6th, 2012 at 10:57 AM
I think this is also make or break for Mike Brown. I was NOT impressed last year. Now with a training camp and everyone healthy there will be no excuses. Lakers seem acutely aware of Kobe’s window and I can’t imagine they let Brown hold them back.
/Bring back Phil!
July 6th, 2012 at 10:58 AM
Nash has basically said he won’t be running Brown’s crappy offense.
July 6th, 2012 at 10:59 AM
I think Sessions will end up in Dallas
that’d be good for dallas.
Nash has basically said he won’t be running Brown’s crappy offense.
don’t be ridiculous, mike brown doesn’t run an offense.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:01 AM
Wonder if Kobe has called Phil yet. Probably doesn’t trust Brown with his last few years.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:04 AM
Wonder if Kobe has called Phil yet. Probably doesn’t trust Brown with his last few years.
Kobe calls Phil and Mike Brown calls John Kuester.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:04 AM
Can’t find it, but I read he also led the league in turnovers per 36 last year. People talking about him the past few days like he’s a superstar or something, guy takes as much off the table as he brings. And that old Lakers team isn’t going to be pushing the tempo, which is where he is best.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:04 AM
Sessions is the target for DAL. Sessions opted out of a chance to stay in LAL so he aint going there. Also above, Lisk failed to note any defensive metrics. Kidd isn’t elite on defense. Nash is a sieve.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:07 AM
Nash had 3.7 TO per game but I presume that’s some creep due to playing for a pedestrian team.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:08 AM
But has he stopped beating his wife as well?
/ Stern’d
July 6th, 2012 at 11:09 AM
Kidd’s defense held up pretty good. 2.1 DWS (Nash’s was a suprising .9) but Nash had the higher overall WS.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:12 AM
Probably why they are still pursuing Dwight for Bynum. Bynum is proving to be quite the asshole and moves like a 35 yr old running underwater up and down the court.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:12 AM
Both Bryant and Nash were high turnover prone last year, but I think that will decline as they share ball handling abilities. Nash doesn’t have to generate 90% of the offense anymore, and neither does Kobe.
I’m more worried about Mike Brown fucking this up royally. For the love of god, get Gasol back in the paint!
July 6th, 2012 at 11:12 AM
Somewhat. He makes a lot more bad decisions now then he did say 5 years ago. Especially towards the end of games. I think some of it can be fatigue at times, especially when the team going against him has a speedy backcourt.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:15 AM
Gasol will make up for Bynum running slow. However, I don’t understand why people are actin as if Nash can only play run-and-gun. He’s a great PG in a half-court system as well. My only concern is his defense in the playoffs against the Westbrooks/Parkers, but that didn’t stop Phx from attaining success before. The Lakers are a pretty good defensive team so I think Gasol/Bynum can mask his bad D.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:18 AM
“Hey, you guys are forgetting we have Stevie Blake on our squad. I plan on using him far too much this season just like I did last year. Should be fun.”
-Mike Brown
July 6th, 2012 at 11:18 AM
No PG can guard those guys, and most good defensive teams don’t even try to let their PG do it.
They put an athletic guy (Tony Allen-type) on them, then play team defense behind them.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:19 AM
We were a much younger team than the Lakers are now.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:20 AM
This Lakers team is decent, but they still need a more solid bench. Troy Murphy was not the savior.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:21 AM
WWOS – you ever go to this place?
July 6th, 2012 at 11:21 AM
They put an athletic guy (Tony Allen-type) on them, then play team defense behind them.
This Lakers team is decent, but they still need a more solid bench. Troy Murphy was not the savior.
don’t forget they have Christian Skyenga!
July 6th, 2012 at 11:22 AM
FWIW: Westbrook in games against Nash/PHX last year: 21.3 ppg, 49% shooting, 6.3 apg.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:23 AM
Like 6 years ago.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:23 AM
in 3qtrs!
/because by the end of the 3rd the Suns were usually down 30.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:24 AM
Its not healthy to worry about events that are guaranteed to take place.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:25 AM
Ebanks is coming along and re-signing him is a no-brainer. I like his game and he can also take Barnes role should they not get Hill and let Barnes go.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:27 AM
I think OKC won most of the games by double digits.
/ sign of things to come
July 6th, 2012 at 11:28 AM
+1 jumper off side of backboard and +2 dribbles off of foot
July 6th, 2012 at 11:29 AM
He’s also sexting the hottest Kardashian.
Nash led a group of crappy Suns players (minus Amare) to the 2010 WCF.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:29 AM
I think Jim Buss sleeps with a Bynum doll under his pillow and wears a Bynum jersey to bed, and is the #1 apologist in the Lakers front office for Bynum. Maybe (Webb) or some of the LAL hardcores around here can confirm that, but it’d be a shock if he traded Bynum.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:31 AM
That’s an understatement. He and McRoberts both underwhelmed, but again, could that be because Brown appears to be clueless 90% of the time? Murphy won’t be back, but McRoberts might. Like his tough edge, but we may need a smarter coach to use it effectively.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:32 AM
who is that person on the Lakers? Kobe?
July 6th, 2012 at 11:32 AM
Yea Amare was on that team buddy and played one of his best seasons of his career.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:33 AM
oh i get what you were saying. I need to read faster.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:34 AM
Jason Richardson was pretty solid on that Suns team though and they had a lot of depth and really got some flukey bracket setups.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:34 AM
I was referring to good defensive teams.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:34 AM
Bynum’s development and the trust in him is all Jim Buss. He scouted him, drafted him, and pushed his development. Phil didn’t want to use Bynum much offensively (he wanted Gasol as the offensive forefront, and Bynum as the defensive anchor), and Buss sees him as a offensive juggernaut.
The Lakers won back to back titles with Bynum barely contributing in the playoffs and Buss wanted him to be more of a focal point on offense. Buss proved most people wrong with Bynum’s leap last year; however, to not trade him for Howard is a bit stupid. Howard’s offensive skills may be less polished, but not by that much.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:35 AM
There is no doubt Jim Buss is all-in for Bynum. But maybe Daddy and Mitch can persuade him to not fuck this up. Not exactly trading down to get Howard.
After Kobe called Phil, I bet his next call was to Jerry West.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:37 AM
McRoberts was doing well at the beginning of last season, IIRC. Brown yanked his minutes and replaced him with Murphy, who I saw make maybe one three pointer out of the 500 that he took from the top of the key.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:38 AM
The Lakers are a pretty good defensive team so I think Gasol/Bynum can mask his bad D.
Gasol needs to mask his own bad D
July 6th, 2012 at 11:39 AM
McRoberts will make over $3M next year so he’ll be back.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:39 AM
I’m not sure it’s as easy as all that. Dwight is smaller, two years older, and relies heavily on his athleticism.
Bynum’s skill set seems to age better.
I’d want to know Howard’s back was healthy before I pulled a trade.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:39 AM
Gasol is a decent help defender. He just gets really lazy sometimes. Hopefully, with less trade rumors this season, his motivation picks up.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:40 AM
Kobe can definitely log a few minutes on those guys, but certainly you don’t want to wear him out doing for extended minutes. Maybe with Nash shouldering more of the offensive burden he’ll have a little more juice for defense.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:40 AM
Can’t be any less risky than relying on Bynum’s knees.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:40 AM
didn’t pay that much attention to Mike Brown in Clev., has he always fucked with thte rotation on a daily basis with seemingly no rhyme or reason??
July 6th, 2012 at 11:42 AM
Gasol is still too much of a quiche eater for me. So frustrated with his inability or desire to sack up and be aggressive.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:42 AM
He did a great job on Westbrook the few times that he was on him against OKC. However, Kobe does not have the ability to stay with him for longer than maybe a quarter without getting gassed and chucking up airballs on the other end.
/ he will shoot those shots regardless
July 6th, 2012 at 11:43 AM
or Kobes. Or Nash’s back. Or Gasols work ethic and mood. or Mike Browns coaching.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:44 AM
Bynum has the fluidity of a corpse which makes him struggle against length. That is why he struggled against Denver and OKC for large stretches in the playoffs. The Lakers will never be the best they can be at this point as long as they have their best post player hanging around in the high post and perimeter.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:45 AM
I was more pissed about him turning Gasol, one of the best post players in the league, into a spot up shooter.
I’m not sure if that was due to Buss’s commands to free up Bynum or what, but it was a stupid move. Gasol is a decent shooter, but I don’t want to see a 7-1 player not named Dirk shooting spot up 3s.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:46 AM
ok so if this Jim Buss-Bynum stuff is as we think, there is no Bynum-Howard deal occurrring. So the lakers core is set. Say what you will about Mike Brown, I am not sure how he coaches this team or creates a better rotation to beat SAS or OKC.
He did well with rotations in CLE. Rotations take time to evolve and last year was a nightmare with the lack of practices for new coaches. Plus he didn’t have Odom or Gasol was at times in a funk. It’s a player’s league and not sure who was getting more from last year’s team.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:46 AM
I was more pissed about him turning Gasol, one of the best post players in the league, into a spot up shooter.
I’m not sure if that was due to Buss’s commands to free up Bynum or what, but it was a stupid move. Gasol is a decent shooter, but I don’t want to see a 7-1 player not named Dirk shooting spot up 3s
100% agree, the guy (Brown) just does some weird shit
July 6th, 2012 at 11:47 AM
Bynum averaged 19 and 12 in a slow paced offense with the fluidity of a corpse at the same age that Howard averaged 18-13 in a pretty fast paced offense.
It is likely that he’ll age better than Dwight Howard.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:51 AM
Yes. Starting lineups and rotations changed daily. One game a guy would get 30 min and then he’d go 2 games without seeing the floor. Completely inexplicable.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:56 AM
Dwight got open looks for his perimeter players because of defense’s focusing on him. Bynum gets one on one looks because the defense is focused on the perimeter. Different circumstances. The way I see it, if the players switched teams, the Lakers would be better and the Magic not as good.
July 6th, 2012 at 11:57 AM
where is the damn edit button!!!
July 6th, 2012 at 12:00 PM
Ultimately I think the Lakers/Magic will make this deal. Bynum is the best thing the Magic can get in return, and Howard will be cool joining the next “superteam”. That crap about his back and re-signing is posturing. It’ll get done.
July 6th, 2012 at 12:00 PM
That’s probably true. The Magic have been built around Dwight’s skill set while the Lakers have been built around Kobe.
Take Dwight off of Orlando, and there would be a drop-off.
July 6th, 2012 at 12:00 PM
To add, he really struggled when Kobe was out with injury. The Lakers were winning, but it was due to Gasol’s increased efforts. Bynum is pretty good on D though, but he struggles offensively any time he’s double teamed.
July 6th, 2012 at 12:02 PM
Philly’s about to amnesty Elton Brand. He had 18 million (!) left on his final year.
July 6th, 2012 at 12:02 PM
From the rumor mill
July 6th, 2012 at 12:05 PM
You just beat me to it. Rumblings are that there will be a deal in place by Sunday. It seems to be Bynum/MWP for Howard.
July 6th, 2012 at 12:15 PM
Hate to lose MWP, but I’m giddy for next season with D12.