Yeah, Hines Ward is a Hall of Famer … After Isaac Bruce And a Bunch of Other Guys Get In
Hines Ward announced his retirement today, after 14 seasons with the Pittsburgh Steelers. A month ago, the news that the Steelers were going to release Hines Ward came out. At the time, Hines Ward said he was not ready to retire. I didn’t think anyone would have any interest, but you can never rule out what a franchise like Arizona will do with washed up Steelers. The lack of response once free agency, though, told Hines Ward it was time. Now, he gets to retire having played his entire career as a Steeler, and the talk turns to his Hall of Fame chances.
Hines Ward played hard, sometimes on the edge, played for a long time, and was a Super Bowl MVP. People will point out that he has more receiving yards than Stallworth and Swann, two other Pittsburgh Hall of Fame wide receivers. If Pittsburgh gets to push more wide receivers into the Hall of Fame because they always have a great defense, then of course, he has a chance.
I’m a Big Hall of Fame guy, and I think there is way more room than just the Jerry Rice’s and Joe Montana’s. I have no problem with 7 players going in every year in perpetuity. These guys put it on the line when it can end in a moment’s notice. More is better when it comes to remember this fleeting game. A large Hall also allows us to disagree or have different types of players, from the career longevity guys to the brilliant mercurial stars to the playoff heroes.
That said, there is currently a major logjam at wide receiver, when guys like Cris Carter, Tim Brown and Andre Reed (three guys I would put ahead of Ward) are having difficulty getting in. Marvin Harrison, Terrell Owens and Torry Holt are going to be coming up soon, before Ward. Randy Moss will be soon behind. Not too many years after you’ll get Larry Fitzgerald.
At pro-football-reference, his most comparable players based on career shape and regular season value (and granted, this is just based on the regular season) are Derrick Mason and Keenan McCardell. Both played 14+ years, made a couple of pro bowls, and were generally among the best 10-15 receivers for a long period of time. Mason has 57 fewer catches and 22 fewer career receiving yards. Hines Ward made 4 pro bowls during his 14 years, a little higher rate than the other two. He gets credit for his blocking, but Mason also gets extra credit for being a pretty good return man for the first half of his career on top of playing receiver, leading the league in all-purpose yards during Tennessee’s 13-3 season in 2000.
Hines Ward’s playoff performance separates him (Mason played in a fair number too, Ward’s numbers are better) and I think he’s ahead of those two. But it’s not that far of a jump, and nobody will talk about Mason or McCardell, at all, as a Hall of Famer.
Okay, but what about another guy who I didn’t mention yet. Do you think Isaac Bruce is a Hall of Famer? Gut reaction?
Here are his numbers compared to Ward:
- Isaac Bruce: 16 seasons, 223 games, 1024 receptions, 15208 receiving yards, 91 receiving touchdowns, 4 pro bowls, no first team all pros.
- Hines Ward: 14 seasons, 217 games, 1000 receptions, 12083 receiving yards, 85 receiving touchdowns, 4 pro bowls, no first team all pros.
Bruce played a little longer (though the final season in San Francisco added little). He has over 3,000 more receiving yards in roughly the same number of games, and more receptions. The numbers are remarkably similar, both selected as pro bowlers four times, neither considered the best receiver in the game at any point, they transitioned from #1 receivers in their 20′s to quality #2 receivers who continued to produce in their 30′s.
Ahhh, but the postseason! Hines Ward was a Super Bowl MVP. Here’s one where if any sense is applied, this factor doesn’t help Ward against Bruce either. Yes, Ward was selected MVP of Super Bowl XL. Here are Ward’s numbers from Super Bowl XL set against Bruce in Super Bowl XXXIV, when the Rams beat the Titans:
- Isaac Bruce in Super Bowl XXXIV: 7 receptions, 127 yards, 1 touchdown (game winner just inside two minute warning);
- Hines Ward in Super Bowl XL: 5 receptions, 123 yards, 1 touchdown, 1 rush for 18 yards.
Almost identical. The difference, and why people will tout that Ward has that MVP as a Hall of Fame qualification while Bruce will go unnoticed: Ben Roethlisberger stunk and Ward caught his touchdown on a trick play from Antwan Randle-El, while Warner was brilliant. As far as the game, though, Bruce’s big play was the deciding touchdown, while Ward’s came in a far less memorable game.
What about the rest of the postseason? Ward was excellent in the playoffs for the most part, and he gets a boost there. 18 games, 88 receptions, 1181 yards and 10 TD’s is another year’s worth of great play against good opponents.
Here’s Isaac Bruce in the playoffs: 9 games, 44 receptions, 759 yards and 4 touchdowns.
Exactly half the number of playoff games, exactly half the receptions, and a higher yards per game rate.
Hines Ward’s Steelers ranked #1 in points allowed four times, in the top 3 three other times, and never below the league average. Bruce’s Rams ranked in the top 10 in points allowed only twice, and usually below the league average. Ward played in more playoff games because his teammates were better. Bruce played just as well or better in the playoff games in which he played, including their signature Super Bowl performances.
Hines Ward is going to be an interesting discussion in five years. I’m not sure how they have it without Isaac Bruce being part of the talk as well. If they will put Bruce in, then yeah, maybe Ward is a Hall of Famer. If not, I think it’s quite frankly a bunch of junk.
[US Presswire]

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259 Responses to “Yeah, Hines Ward is a Hall of Famer … After Isaac Bruce And a Bunch of Other Guys Get In”
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March 20th, 2012 at 3:19 PM
Oh my God, nice hat you douche
March 20th, 2012 at 3:21 PM
Is that Lou Diamond Phillips?
March 20th, 2012 at 3:21 PM
ill give $100 to the person who wipes that fucking smile off that dirty, filthy, cheap ass overrated WR. the “good defensive first baseman” of football.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:22 PM
Right. The Peter Kings of the world like to compare Ward’s numbers to Swann and Stallworth as if they’re the least bit relevant. Also, no WR in history has ever gotten in for his blocking. Ward is HOVG (hate that term but it fits).
March 20th, 2012 at 3:23 PM
When’s Herman Moore and Jimmy Smith getting in?
March 20th, 2012 at 3:23 PM
Steeler fan. I’d say Bruce over Ward, before even reading this. Read it still agree. Love Hines though.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:24 PM
character flaw.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:25 PM
if only they played for marquee teams their entire careers…maybe they’d be in the “hof discussion” too.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:25 PM
I think you made more for a case of Bruce not getting in, rather than Ward getting in.
Let the other receivers you mentioned represent the position in the annals of NFL history.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:26 PM
He’s one of those guys only fans of his team love. I’d hate his dirty ass if he played for another team.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:26 PM
He’s arguably the best blocking receiver ever. He should get in before most of the guys listed because of that. It would be like comparing Lorenzo Neal to Rob Conrad.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:26 PM
Hell no.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:27 PM
Hines Ward = Legendary philanderer
March 20th, 2012 at 3:27 PM
He’s a horse, cut him some slack.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:28 PM
The numbers are remarkably similar, both selected as pro bowlers four times, neither considered the best receiver in the game at any point
I can remember people actually making that argument for Bruce at some point, though. Like in ’95 or ’99
March 20th, 2012 at 3:28 PM
Are you wearing the same hat as the one in that picture? Because you sound like a complete and utter douche bag right now.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:28 PM
Konrad*
March 20th, 2012 at 3:28 PM
He breaks jaws, I can respect that.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:29 PM
Very industirous critique of Ward’s HOF credentials, Lisk. Very industrious
March 20th, 2012 at 3:29 PM
no, this is like comparing a wide receiver who didn’t receive as much to his peers. blocking WR? who gives a flying fuck? im sure hines’ crackback blocks sure helped the bus and duce staley and mendenhall out big time when they were running up the gut. THANK GOD THAT CB WHO WASNT IN THE PLAY TO BEGIN WITH GOT PANCAKE 20 YARDS AWAY FROM THE PLAY.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:29 PM
For stating what most people accept as a fact? That’s a huge part of the game.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:29 PM
Right after Rod Smith and Donald Driver
March 20th, 2012 at 3:30 PM
So you’re all saying that Art Monk shouldn’t be in the hall either.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:30 PM
What about Carl Pickens and Andre Rison?
March 20th, 2012 at 3:30 PM
Right after Rod Smith and Donald Driver
Is that before or after Haywood Jeffires?
March 20th, 2012 at 3:31 PM
Right, this is the “best defensive 1st baseman” argument referred to earlier. Didnt make Keith Hernandez a HOFer. And are we sure he’s even the best blocking WR ever? Who the fuck watches WR’s block during a game?
March 20th, 2012 at 3:31 PM
He’s arguably the best blocking receiver ever.
Are you wearing the same hat as the one in that picture? Because you sound like a complete and utter douche bag right now.
Google agrees with that assessment.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:31 PM
pretty much.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:31 PM
I think Yahoo’s Doug Farrar put it best here
That was such a fun game to watch. I remember that play and this one where some how McNair was able to get out of Kevin Carters grasp to complete the ball to K. Dyson for a 1st down.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:32 PM
You answered the question right here.
I’m glad he’s got lots of Yinzer scrapitude, but he’s not a HOFer.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:32 PM
Dont sleep on Robert Brooks, Brett Perriman, and Darnay Scott
March 20th, 2012 at 3:32 PM
Haywood Jeffires is between Brett Perriman and Joe Horn.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:33 PM
So you’re all saying that Art Monk shouldn’t be in the hall either.
Art Monk gets a lot of shit for being a compiler but it’s a kind of distorted view of his worth. He was a big part of the Skins offense for a long time, during which they were usually a really good offensive team in spite of some average QB play. He came along right when the game switched to a more pass-heavy orientation and he was really good for a really long time.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:33 PM
that is the stupidest fucking thing I’ve ever heard anyone say on this site.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:34 PM
What the fuck is your problem? Honestly.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:34 PM
yea, for blockers. receiving’s a huge part of being a WR, you know.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:35 PM
Irvin Fryar and OJ McDuffie.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:36 PM
I wonder who did more blow in the early stages of their careers: Fryar or Cris Carter.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:36 PM
Not enough butt play.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:37 PM
Which he was pretty goddamn good at. Not sure why people are acting like he’s a horrible receiver. Not everyone can be Dennis Northcut.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:37 PM
Gary Clark has like 1,200 fewer receiving yards and 3 fewer years. When’s he gonna sniff the HOF?
March 20th, 2012 at 3:38 PM
I wonder who did more blow in the early stages of their careers: Fryar or Cris Carter.
Does Michael Irvin belong in this conversation?
March 20th, 2012 at 3:38 PM
You’re saying something really fucking stupid and it’s annoying me. BLOCKING?! For a fucking wide receiver?! And trying to say that it’s a HUGE part of the game?
March 20th, 2012 at 3:38 PM
he averaged under 5 catches per game for around 55 yards…that’s fine and dandy, just not HOF worthy.
it pisses me off because the ONLY reason he’s mentioned as being a HOF candidate is because of you fucking obnoxious yinzer sixburgh fuckfaces.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:39 PM
even hines ward’s best seasons weren’t the best seasons for WR that year.
if he gets HOF it’s not for his career accomplishments, it’s the associations of a long and productive career with the steelers.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:39 PM
Her co-worker has begun to wink at her when she is told she is going to go pinch a loaf.
It’s unsettling.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:39 PM
Better than J.J. Birden but worse than Curtis Duncan
March 20th, 2012 at 3:40 PM
You honestly don’t think that receivers being able to block in a scheme that focuses on running is important?
Oh wait you’re a Bears fan what the fuck would you know about a successfully schemed offense.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:40 PM
He has a kung fu grip on the Hall of Fame
/TBL’d
March 20th, 2012 at 3:40 PM
no, it’s Michael Irvin and LT and then everybody else a distant second.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:41 PM
ahh… hall of fame arguments. sports radio heaven.
I know a lot of people care about this sort of thing, but I honestly could not care less if Jeff Cirillo or Don Beebe make the HOF (not that they should even be considered). They’ll always hold a special place in my heart, that’s all that matters IMO.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:41 PM
it pisses me off because the ONLY reason he’s mentioned as being a HOF candidate is because of you fucking obnoxious yinzer sixburgh fuckfaces.
Spence, if you think that’s obnoxious…
March 20th, 2012 at 3:41 PM
Jerry Rice and nobody else.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:43 PM
it does if there are runs outside of the tackles. where are all the hosannas for the pats’ WR’s who block like crazy on all those bubble screens? or the west coast WR’s who routinely blocked way downfield on screens and slants that saw a lot of YAC’s?
the steelers weren’t an outside running team until rather recently. so what does it matter if a CB’s blocked on a dive?
March 20th, 2012 at 3:44 PM
I laughed out loud.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:44 PM
Anything that insults that assclown of a player is fine by me. Fuck Hines Ward.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:44 PM
He was always the most fearsome receiver on the Skins in my opinion.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:44 PM
some dude i see on my commute home everyday has a bumper sticker with “stairway to seven on it…”
i often considering opening fire on his auto.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:44 PM
Steelers fan and Bears fan fight to the death. Everybody wins!
March 20th, 2012 at 3:45 PM
i wanna go home early and smoke some doja.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:45 PM
Well, one, you just mentioned every pass routine that the Steelers ran before Mike Wallace came around. Their go to was the bubble screen and slants.
Two, Willie Parker.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:45 PM
WR blocking was important on Alex Smiths 28 yard TD run against the Saints and Steve Youngs epic TD run vs. the Vikings. And probably others, but I can’t remember any.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:46 PM
Fuck Bruce Arians.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:47 PM
Yet the Bears offense, in Lovie Smith’s words, is a RUN FIRST OFFENSE which, by your standards, means our wide receivers are out there blocking like gang busters every fucking game.
If the receiver at the heart of this post was anyone other than someone from the Steelers, and some moron came on here saying this receiver deserved to be in the HOF because of his stats and his BLOCKING ability, you would mock him until the guy ran out of here crying.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:47 PM
Lots of receivers block well, Ward was the only one who got talked about for it since he was cutting knees and making it a story
March 20th, 2012 at 3:47 PM
I’m actually okay with the token vote by the hometown sportswriter in baseball though. Tim Wakefield isn’t a HOFer by any means, but I’d love for him to get thrown a few votes in 5 years, just to have an excuse to look back fondly on a part of a team that meant a lot to me.
/purposely didn’t use Tek as the example, because I’m afraid someone will give him serious consideration
March 20th, 2012 at 3:47 PM
John Taylor and Ed McCaffery > Hines Ward at blocking down the field.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:47 PM
For the record I don’t care about the Hall of Fame I just think it’s stupid to compare Hines Ward to some of these guys based only on stats. I’m not talking the fact that he’s a smiling tough guy, but the fact that he actually did shit on the field that nobody has ever done as well. That is important.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:48 PM
Yeah, that’s the way the world works. If you’re a great player for a marquee and successful franchise, you get recognized. Same as in other sports, businesses, etc. It will take a long time but someday there will be one of those years where there aren’t HOF locks, but he’ll get in. Right or wrong, he’ll get in.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:48 PM
Every one of Nebraska’s 19* touchdown they scored against Florida in the 1996 Fiesta Bowl.
*slight exaggeration
/Fuck Florida
March 20th, 2012 at 3:48 PM
There is a San Francisco 49er “Rainbow 6″ joke out there to be made but I’m not gonna make it.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:49 PM
Was Ward ever a top 5 WR at one point in his career? No. Fin.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:49 PM
I bet he smiles creepily during sex too
March 20th, 2012 at 3:49 PM
I said he should get in BEFORE those guys. Big difference. It’s something that separates him from those comparable statistically, which is what this post is about.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:50 PM
Hines got more pub for it, but I agree with this.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:50 PM
I’m not picking sides here, because fuck Hines Ward and fuck the Steelers… but just because you are a run-first offense, doesn’t mean that your WR’s are good at or know how to block. It just means that your backs can’t get the corner because some idiot thought playing Devin Hester at WR was a good fucking idea.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:50 PM
They’d have more room for receivers if they took those frauds Namath and Aikman out.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:50 PM
Word on the street is he is in fact hung like an Azn, so probably not.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:50 PM
I thought Carl Perkins was already in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? He’s gotta be, right?
March 20th, 2012 at 3:51 PM
you’d think Ward could block the 2000 baltimore ravens defensive line all by himself with the way this argument is going.
his blocking ability is a silly add on that ultimately means nothing when considering his HOF credentials.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:51 PM
OT: just watched Peyton’s presser. What a huge freakin’ melon. Aaaand, now John Elway…
March 20th, 2012 at 3:51 PM
Also, while Archie Manning will never make it in to the HOF, they need to clear out a wing for his sperm.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:52 PM
so your counterargument, keep in mind you’re making a hall of fame case, is a two year stint where willie parker was above league-average and the time back in the day when the steelers had a shitty passing game?
i mean, i know you said above you don’t like comparing stats between hines and other WR’s, but, in my opinion, you gotta have a pretty airtight HOF case, statistically and anecdotally. and since we can’t compare blocking WR’s to each other for a variety of reasons, it’s equally unfair to call hines the best ever.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:52 PM
And Jerry Rice, of course. But was better than everyone at everything.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:52 PM
The shit-eating grin on John Elway;s face is priceless. He has to be thrilled to get rid of Derp Derp Arm Punt and land Peyton with the same move.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:52 PM
Plus, Ward walked out of a $150 bar bill my cousin was bartending at. Fuck him.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:53 PM
The awful question about what Manning would say to Tebow fans was both sad and entirely expected. I would have bought my authentic Manning Denver jersey if he would have said, “what the fuck do I care?”
March 20th, 2012 at 3:53 PM
Is Sterling Sharpe in? No. Then no.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:53 PM
frankly, i don’t think any of them should get in. TO, randy moss, marvin harrison, steve smith…maybe fitz and andre if they keep it up, maybe cris carter and tim brown, MAYBE.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:53 PM
Word on the street is he is in fact hung like an Azn, so probably not.
I’ll wait for TBL to do his much ballyhooed investigative journalism before I believe that.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:54 PM
Nope. I’m making a case up against others that Lisk mentioned being in the same region.
I mean he will get in, don’t think there’s much debate about that, because of how this shit works. But I think the argument could be made that he should be in before someone like Bruce, in a vacuum of whether either deserves it.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:54 PM
I’m all for this.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:55 PM
Largely agreed.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:55 PM
I’d pay for the audio of that cold call.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:55 PM
I don’t care what any you say this is awesome
March 20th, 2012 at 3:55 PM
“you know how excited you were when yall drafted tebow? well, in your wildest dreams, if tebow lived up to every conceivable expectation laid at his feet for a solid decade straight…he still wouldn’t measure up to me.”
March 20th, 2012 at 3:55 PM
I bet he smiles creepily during sex too
better than grunting creepily during sex.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:56 PM
My cat is on my lap and is making it really hard to make snarky comments and talk about Jerry Rice.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:56 PM
im more offended by rivers’ lazy pursuit and shitty angle than i am about hines being a headhunting cunt.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:56 PM
Husker, you’re killin’ me today. I’m in tears over here, cracking up.
You’re right though. Elway never talked about Tebow like he’s gushing over Peyton. I can feel the love thru the television screen.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:56 PM
That would have been just about the best thing of all time.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:56 PM
On pure talent absolutely but the career was just too short…amazing the numbers he was putting up with Don Majkowski and a raw Brett Favre throwing to him, didn’t have the luxury of a seasoned Joe Montana to kick off the career
/To hell with Fumblin’ Rice
March 20th, 2012 at 3:57 PM
I must be crazy or biased, but I don’t see TO as a HOFer. He’s got the numbers, and was the best player on the field in a Superbowl he had no business playing in, and somehow it’s just a blind spot to me.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:57 PM
Perfectly clean play, too. Punished a lazy player and extended his team’s game. Gotta love it.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:57 PM
So, what you’re saying is, you’re not a Blyleven fan.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:57 PM
*gain
March 20th, 2012 at 3:57 PM
Yes, all those silly add ons besides just looking at numbers are ridiculous. Wouldn’t want to consider anything that actually makes someone a COMPLETE football player. Let’s just look at stats. I suppose route running, toughness, leadership, and all those other intangibles don’t mean anything.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:57 PM
This too.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:58 PM
it’s like how jack and arnie talked about tiger…when there are only two or three people on the face of the earth who can say they’re better than you at something you’re one of the greatest of all time at, you tend to get reverential.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:58 PM
WHERE THE FUCK WAS THE BALL? that’s worse than anything james harrison has ever done.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:58 PM
Yet the whole point of moleman’s argument was that the wide receiver being able to block in a run-heavy offense is important. Which is clearly an untrue statement. You can use the Bears as a perfect example.
The Steelers being successful with the run wasn’t remotely affected by the blocking ability of Hines fucking Ward.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:59 PM
It really is amazing to see. He’s so fucking happy. I can only imagine how happy John Fox is.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:59 PM
My cat is on my lap and is making it really hard to make snarky comments and talk about Jerry Rice.
Does this mean you’re fucking your cat, Ballz?
March 20th, 2012 at 3:59 PM
They’d have more room for receivers if they took those frauds Namath and Aikman out.
Namath should be in the fraudiness HOF. Aikman belongs in the HOF.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:59 PM
BUT BUT BUT HE DOESN’T BLOCK SECONDARY PLAYERS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD!
/Browns fans
March 20th, 2012 at 3:59 PM
spencer, that is rarefied air where those guys live. They’re just…different from the rest of us.
March 20th, 2012 at 3:59 PM
If Jim Rice played football, he would have been Hines Ward.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:00 PM
Don’t poke the bear.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:00 PM
Ball carrier was heading towards Reed. I think he tackled before he got there.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:00 PM
Spencer you read the Tiger Kill House story?
March 20th, 2012 at 4:00 PM
im just curious as to what that accomplished seeing as there wasn’t anyone within 20 yards in any direction involved in that play.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:00 PM
A couple of those are pretty well encompassed by ‘stats’. As for leadership… he didn’t exactly take a pack of cub scouts up Everest. He played receiver. He ran where he was supposed to. Caught the ball more often than not. Whoopdedoo.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:01 PM
yep…dont blame tiger one bit. id literally kill a baby to get a chance to shoot guns and parachute with navy seals.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:02 PM
For the record I don’t care about the Hall of Fame I just think it’s stupid to compare Hines Ward to some of these guys based only on stats. I’m not talking the fact that he’s a smiling tough guy, but the fact that he actually did shit on the field that nobody has ever done as well. That is important.
Pittsburgh averaged 4.12 yards per carry from 1998-2011. That ranks as 12th in the NFL over that entire span. The Bears, with their inability to have any wide receivers who ever made a block ever, averaged 3.85 yards over that span, 30th in the league.
Over the course of 14 years, if we assume that Hines Ward was solely responsible for the difference between Chicago and Pittsburgh in terms of rushing yards per play, and Pittsburgh would have been 30th in the league in yards per carry without Ward (which is a ridiculous assumption in the first place) then the total rushing yards difference is 1901 yards over 14 years, or 135 yards per season.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:02 PM
don’t forget complaining about big ben…pouty hines.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:02 PM
Who are “Three people who have never been in my kitchen”, Alex?
March 20th, 2012 at 4:03 PM
The Rams were breaking huge runs all the time during their glory days…one would have to assume Isaac Bruce was throwing successful blocks downfield on those, it just wasn’t an announcer talking point to mention since the focus was always on Faulk
March 20th, 2012 at 4:03 PM
carve that bust!
March 20th, 2012 at 4:03 PM
OT
Jennifer Lawerence. Yes please.
/Carry on
March 20th, 2012 at 4:03 PM
Rod Smith.
Fin.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:04 PM
I can’t tell, I’m too busy looking at that wonderful score below.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:04 PM
Pittsburgh averaged 4.12 yards per carry from 1998-2011….. then the total rushing yards difference is 1901 yards over 14 years, or 135 yards per season.
That seems like not that much, but that little bit of marginal gain from a WR seems like maybe it makes a big difference. Can you control that for how good the backs were? How many CBs made tackles?
March 20th, 2012 at 4:04 PM
What a fucking stupid statement. Have you ever seen a football play drawn up? Every player has a responsibility. Hines just took his non pass-catching responsibilities a little more seriously than other, lazier, self centered, egotistical wide receivers.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:04 PM
greatest show on turf seemed to always have a convoy of blockers going downfield.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:05 PM
The only negative about this Broncos press conference at this point is that Pat Bowlen is clearly slipping deeper and deeper into senility.
I have a Bronco-themed boner right now. That is all.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:05 PM
this is dogshit.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:05 PM
ok, so he can block. does that elevate him above other receivers yet to make it into the hall that were arguably better receivers? Does that make up for him not being a dominant receiver at any point in his career?
saying he’s great b/c he can block is like saying a full back was great b/c he could run a really nice receiving route out of the backfield.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:05 PM
Over the course of 14 years, if we assume that Hines Ward was solely responsible for the difference between Chicago and Pittsburgh in terms of rushing yards per play, and Pittsburgh would have been 30th in the league in yards per carry without Ward (which is a ridiculous assumption in the first place) then the total rushing yards difference is 1901 yards over 14 years, or 135 yards per season.
Lisk just treated the comments section like an “And-1″ basketball game…
March 20th, 2012 at 4:06 PM
Call him on Cold Call Monday, see what Hines thinks abotu his HOF credentials.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:06 PM
So 135 yd/season = Ward was worth 9 yards a game rushing? Big deal, so was Laurence Maroney.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:06 PM
I’d like to put Herman Moore in the HOF, as he was clearly responsible for Barry Sanders’ 2000-yard season.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:06 PM
What a fucking stupid statement. Have you ever seen a football play drawn up? Every player has a responsibility. Hines just took his non pass-catching responsibilities a little more seriously than other, lazier, self centered, egotistical wide receivers.
get ready for a 47th year
March 20th, 2012 at 4:06 PM
Lions re-signed Tulluch. Meh…
March 20th, 2012 at 4:06 PM
Careful, bees are attracted to semen.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:07 PM
This comment
Should meet this one
March 20th, 2012 at 4:07 PM
The only negative about this Broncos press conference at this point is that Pat Bowlen is clearly slipping deeper and deeper into senility.
If true, that part is sad. He seems like a good dude, and a reasonable team owner.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:07 PM
It’s not like he blindsided Reed. He was right in front of him. Play was heading that direction. Not even close to a cheap shot.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:07 PM
even that has merit. hines is like walter payton only if walter payton still blocked like walter payton but did everything else like…say…garrison hearst.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:07 PM
jesuschrist why does everything have to come back to Tebow
March 20th, 2012 at 4:07 PM
Nobody cares. Fuck the Peyton stealing Broncos.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:08 PM
bullshit…he fakes like he’s going to engage 27, WHO’S CLOSER TO BEING IN THE PLAY MIND YOU, to go after reed. it was stupid and pointless.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:09 PM
Perfect response to the annoying reporter question…
“I appreciate everything Tebow did; I would want him to marry my daughter. The Bronco fans are in love with the Broncos, not any one player. I was hired to do a job and that is help the Broncos win championships and without a doubt, having Peyton here helps us do that.”
Basically, sit down and shut the fuck up.
It kind of is, he’s always been one of the non-douchebag owners. He could barely finish sentences from prepared statements and took no questions.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:09 PM
jesuschrist why does everything have to come back to Tebow
I am sorry, but in my head I heard you saw that with Billy Graham’s voice.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:09 PM
So wait…should Eddie Brown and Ernest Givins be in the Hall of Fame or not?
March 20th, 2012 at 4:10 PM
seriously, im blown away that someone would defend a play where hines goes out of his way to not block the guy who should’ve been blocked in order to hit a guy who’s not expecting it as a good football play. ridiculous.
dirty, clean…doesn’t matter. hines let a defender completely off the hook so he could hit reed. again…worse than anything harrison’s ever done.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:10 PM
jesuschrist why does everything have to come back to Tebow
I think you answered your own question there.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:10 PM
No, it’s football.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:11 PM
I want a decathlon to take place between Spencer and Hines Ward. Let’s start coming up with 10 events for this. Five should be geared more towards Spencer, five towards Hines. I feel we can do this, people. COMMENCE.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:11 PM
yeah, and oddly enough those lazier, self centered, egotistical wide receivers were dominant in the passing game, not in the run blocking game. b/c receivers are primarily on the field to catch the ball. blocking is nice, but ultimately if the RB even gets close to a WR that’s blocking the real work was done by the OL and TE
March 20th, 2012 at 4:11 PM
Seriously. If he signed with the Texans, would they be screaming “BUT WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH TJ YATES?????????????????????????????????????”
March 20th, 2012 at 4:11 PM
Lisk, if you’re in here, can sometime this NFL offseason you do a piece on NFL Stength of Schedule?
March 20th, 2012 at 4:11 PM
TO was a “lazy, self-centered, egotistical WR” right? he was also a pretty good downfield blocker.
it’s not football…and im beginning to wonder if you understand what football is. because it sure isn’t just letting a guy get into perfect defensive position so you can hit some dude and get on sportscenter. yup…no ego there.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:12 PM
If Keyshawn Johnson had as many clips of blowing guys up, would Ward still be considered the greatest blocking WR ever? The kill shots and highlight reel hits aren’t required to be a good downfield blocker, and Johnson was a phenomenal blocker. Ward gets more ink for it because he hammered a few guys.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:12 PM
Bad football.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:13 PM
And plays like this made other defenses keep an eye out for Hines Ward, thus maybe distracting them from their assignments for 1 quarter of a second, which could be the difference between a TD or not on some plays. You had to account for Hines as a defensive player or you could get hurt. You know, the way the game used to be played pre-Goodell.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:13 PM
No because Matt Schaub is the starting quarterback. And yes, they would ask that question about him.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:13 PM
anquan boldin is every bit the blocking WR hines is.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:13 PM
Your eternal whinyness gives me strength.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:13 PM
Oh, yea! You just reminded me of his great blocking on Garrison Hearst’s 96 yard OT run. Thank you.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:13 PM
Or, winning football. Semantics
March 20th, 2012 at 4:14 PM
OT: “We don’t have a plan B”. John Elway – killin’ it at the presser.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:14 PM
It’s all just based on order of finish in the division.
/TBL
March 20th, 2012 at 4:15 PM
I enjoy the great generalization that follows Hines around. A few borderline cheap shot blocks and all of a sudden he’s Anthony Munoz. Can anyone really say (prove?) he is a great blocker? Or do we just rely on some talking heads that in turn are relying on the fact he once blocked a guy really hard.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:15 PM
I want a decathlon to take place between Spencer and Hines Ward. Let’s start coming up with 10 events for this. Five should be geared more towards Spencer, five towards Hines
Hines gets ping pong and badminton, Spence gets golf and zonk.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:15 PM
And their uniforms suck, too.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:15 PM
…and Manning is holding up an orange number 18 jersey with his name on it.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:15 PM
With Spencer’s musical background, I wonder if he could dethrone Hines in the field of ballroom dancing.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:16 PM
Openly mocking Woody Paige was also a high point for Elway.
You can’t hear Woody’s question, but the only response was ‘Only you would think that way Woody.’
March 20th, 2012 at 4:16 PM
that’s the first one that came to mind. i remember i was at a buddy’s house and happened to watch that…against the jets, right?
March 20th, 2012 at 4:16 PM
It’s all just based on order of finish in the division.
/TBL
I know you know this, as I believe this topic and Jeff Fisher being over rated are two things we steadfastly agree on. But yes, “all” in TBL’s world is in fact 2 games.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:17 PM
that’s a negative.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:17 PM
“Plan B” is tattooed on his right bicep. You know after watching Tebow’s chemistry with the turf last year, he’s loosened up the wing a few times.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:17 PM
And their uniforms suck, too.
In the running for worst in the NFL. Need to go back to the orange crush uni’s and the D on the helmets.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:18 PM
Glenn Foley’s one moment of NFL glory and it ended in heartbreaking fashion
March 20th, 2012 at 4:18 PM
Yep. Against the Jets in week 1. I ran outside my house cheering after that play.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:18 PM
OT: “We don’t have a plan B”. John Elway
Tebow doesn’t have any plan B in his nightstand either.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:18 PM
here’s louis murphy with some damn good downfield blocking. no kill shots that’ll end up on sportscenter tho. no yinzers waving pee towels either.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:18 PM
Rod was as important to the Denver rushing attack as Ward was to Pittsburgh’s at least — and that that particular rushing attack was #1 in the NFL basically his entire tenure — and was also a better wide receiver. And I have no doubt that Ward will get into the Hall before he does based on nebulous bullshit like we’re hearing here.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:19 PM
they should make the orange jersey their default home jersey.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:19 PM
i remember some good downfield blocking by eagles WR’s during brian westbrook’s heyday…
March 20th, 2012 at 4:19 PM
Was Issac Bruce truly a dominant top five receiver?
March 20th, 2012 at 4:19 PM
I’d actually like to see a stat that shows that with the turnover in division finish, the first place games are actually no harder than second place historically. Before Peyton, who do you think teams wanted to play, Denver or San Diego?
March 20th, 2012 at 4:19 PM
I wish. Bowlen will never go back to those.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:20 PM
The orange ones blow ass as well. The Bills or the Pats have the current worst uni’s.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:20 PM
no.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:21 PM
this…and id argue that being a dominant WR that demands double coverage is WAY better for a team’s running game than a blocking WR aanyways.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:21 PM
The best part is that both of their throwbacks are among the best.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:22 PM
Broncos really need to adopt this.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:23 PM
Rod Smith’s first career catch was a 43-yard Hail Mary from Elway to win a game against the Redskins.
/HOF
March 20th, 2012 at 4:23 PM
Okay so then why should he get in before Ward? Again I’m not saying Ward should get in before guys like TO, Moss, Shoot em up Harrison, but I’m just confused as to why his complete game is so dismissively worse than Bruce.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:23 PM
worst unis, and it’s not even close…bengals.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:23 PM
Hey SROD… just was thinking I hadn’t heard much from Strasburg. Struggling this Spring so far… any worries or just normal ups and downs?
March 20th, 2012 at 4:23 PM
I disagree. He was definitely a top 5 guy in his day.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:23 PM
That’s horrifying.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:24 PM
Or do we just rely on some talking heads that in turn are relying on the fact he once blocked a guy really hard. WHEN THEY AREN’T LOOKING
/fixed
March 20th, 2012 at 4:24 PM
I like the Bills new jerseys…they have a throwback look to them.
Current Pats and Vikings unis are turrible.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:24 PM
There’s actually two Shoot em up Harrisons.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:24 PM
it’s not and im not making that argument, even tho bruce is a better blocker than you give him credit for as well. im pretty sure i said it above…in my opinion, neither bruce nor hines get in.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:24 PM
The orange ones blow ass as well. The Bills or the Pats have the current worst uni’s.
In no order for worst unis — Seahawks, Bengals (great helmets, terrible unis), Titans, Broncos
March 20th, 2012 at 4:25 PM
I always liked the Bengals uni’s for some reason. But the Bills uniforms are horrid.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:26 PM
Doesnt matter, 8-8 next year.
/flips a quarter 100 times
March 20th, 2012 at 4:26 PM
The Bledsoe era Bills unis are bad — the new ones with the white helmets are fantastic.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:26 PM
I like the new bills unis. SHARP.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:27 PM
Oh yea. Forgot about the Sea-chickens. That bright green stripe makes me dry heave.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:27 PM
carolina’s look like they were trying to cater to the female/glitter/stripper crowd.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:27 PM
Ballz just doesn’t like the Bills uniforms because they’re the challengers for his boyfriend Chris Berman’s heart.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:27 PM
THIS. John Taylor GOAT
March 20th, 2012 at 4:28 PM
considering moss, TO and marvin harrison were all in the top 5 for about a decade and carter, jerry rice, tim brown smiths rod and jimmy, sterling sharpe, andre reed, etc when bruce first came into the league, it’s a hard inclusion. i loved his route running and how smooth he was downfield, but he gets kinda lost in a loaded era for WR’s.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:28 PM
Meanwhile on the internet Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle fan boys are reasonably discussing Michael Bay changing the main characters to aliens.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:28 PM
not a hall of famer.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:28 PM
This is correct. I forgot about those sweet blue jerseys with the old school bison on the helmet. Good call.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:29 PM
Have they put out actual pictures of the new ones yet? I thought they were switching to just blue and white, no more black one.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:29 PM
An all-time favorite.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:29 PM
Meanwhile on the internet Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle fan boys are reasonably discussing Michael Bay changing the main characters to aliens.
i linked to this in the Round Up and it was completely ignored. Apparently no TMNT fans around here.
fuck michael bay though. with donatello’s bo staff
March 20th, 2012 at 4:29 PM
The Bills went back to that throwback-ish look permanently last year. If you think those are in the worst uniform discussion, you need a 12 step.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:30 PM
Maybe it’s just because he always played so well against the Niners, even before they had Kurt Warner.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:30 PM
WWoS…(clearing my throat)…”numbers in the spring don’t count as much”…”we’re more concerned with process than results in March”…”we’ll be ready when the bell rings on Opening Day”…”velocity is up around 93-96 mph”…”more concerned about getting work in versus won-loss or ERA.”
He’s starting tonight against the Mets. I think pitch count will be important tonight. If Johnson lets him go 60-75 pitches tonight AND Strasburg has good movement on his pitches, one would expect optimism.
It remains to be seen.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:30 PM
Have they put out actual pictures of the new ones yet? I thought they were switching to just blue and white, no more black one.
I know the updated the lettering/font from their mid 90′s zubaz garbage they had before, that’s all I’ve heard though. Didn’t know they were changing the uniform.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:30 PM
I don’t care what those nerds say, but Michael Bay can get fucked for this idea and many others.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:31 PM
Ballz, are you gonna keep up the alternate history/massive queef thing you were doing on Twitter yesterday? That was rad.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:32 PM
I didn’t realize that was permanent move. Good for them.
/watches Mario Williams tear acl/get busted for PEDs/die in a fire
//laughs
March 20th, 2012 at 4:32 PM
could be that…there’s always those players that do well against your team and it inflates your opinion of them (not saying that’s the case here tho…). for me, it was jamal lewis. he ran for 500 yards against the browns the year he broke 2,000 and im not exagerrating by saying 500 yards. it was legitimately 500 yards in two games. i thought he was the most unstoppable running back in history and always thought he was better than he actually was.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:33 PM
The comments are gold about this on AV Club. Gold.
“Every scene will open with a close up of April O’Neils ass”
March 20th, 2012 at 4:33 PM
Been there. And when are we gonna talk about how stupid it is for Peyton to choose the Broncos over the 49ers?
March 20th, 2012 at 4:36 PM
Warriors fans won me over last night. Rick Barry is still a condescending douche.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:36 PM
the only reason i can think of is that it’d be easier to add the players he wants to the broncos than it would be to deal with VD and crabtree. even that’s a stretch cuz him and gore would be play action maestros.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:37 PM
Warriors fans won me over last night. Rick Barry is still a condescending douche.
I’m amazed at how large/vocal their fanbase is, given that the franchise has been complete shit for just about as long as I’ve been alive.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:39 PM
Crabtree would shape up on the first day of camp when he realizes he has a QB who can get him the ball downfield. VD isn’t a problem anymore. Best thing Singletary did.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:39 PM
Ballz, let’s just have a geography trivia contest so you can feel better.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:40 PM
Or he thinks that people with the last name Harbaugh are usually dickheads. Which would make him correct.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:40 PM
Peyton smells the 49er regression coming and wants no part of it nor the upcoming Flynnsanity running that division in Seattle
March 20th, 2012 at 4:41 PM
Assuming Wikipedia is working, of course.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:42 PM
Alternate history thig: maybe. Massive queef thing: definitely.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:42 PM
The dog in the hat on the right is currently the best thing about this site.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:43 PM
Goddamn it. I’m gonna call in to Shatners podcast, have him ask me questions, and shut y’all up.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:45 PM
Regression? Why would we regress? We’re only gonna be getting better. Nice try trying to sneak that one past me, though.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:46 PM
Excellent.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:48 PM
Yeah, that ought to do it.
March 20th, 2012 at 4:50 PM
Won’t set league records for fewest turnovers and there’s no guarantee of recreating a dominant defense (the 2010 Packers were 2nd in the NFL and we all saw what happened last year)…also if Alex Smith is still the QB that means Alex Smith is the QB
I’d expect something closer to 10-6 from them this season…the division is slowly improving around them and the law of averages would suggest that conservative shit won’t work as well again
March 20th, 2012 at 4:51 PM
If this really is it for Bowlen, thanks for not being a jackass, and thanks for opening your wallet and always trying to make the team better. All you can ask of any owner. Not that you read the comments section of sports blogs or give a crap what I think, but still . . .
March 20th, 2012 at 4:53 PM
Well, I disagree!!! Also, that defense is a once in a generation D in my opinion. Even the backups knocked fools out. And, we have Patrick Willis.
March 20th, 2012 at 5:07 PM
easy there…the 2000 ravens weren’t all that long ago.
March 20th, 2012 at 5:10 PM
What Ballz said.
March 20th, 2012 at 5:16 PM
Hell, they weren’t even as good as the 2008 Steelers that gave up a full yard less per play (on the exact same number of snaps amazingly enough)
March 20th, 2012 at 5:17 PM
Once in a decade then. Whatever.
March 20th, 2012 at 5:17 PM
that blew my mind.
March 20th, 2012 at 5:26 PM
I had to look at it a couple times to make sure I didn’t load the same page twice
2011 49ers: 974 snaps, 4,931 yards allowed
2008 Steelers: 974 snaps, 3,795 yards allowed
But I suppose if the decade started last year they’re right up there with the leaders in the clubhouse (although last year’s Steelers still gave up fewer yards and points than the Niners)
March 20th, 2012 at 5:28 PM
Like STEELER bias wont get him in.
March 20th, 2012 at 5:37 PM
That pass was on a rope. I never considered it a Hail Mary.