Congratulations, Robert Griffin III, You’re About to be Drafted By an Idiotic Washington Organization
Late last night, in case you missed it, the Washington Redskins completed a trade to acquire the Rams’ second overall pick, presumably to draft Robert Griffin III. They gave up the 6th overall pick this year, plus their 2nd round pick this year, plus next year’s first round pick. Oh, and their 2014 first round pick as well. To move up four spots, the Redskins threw in two future firsts and this year’s second round pick.
I don’t even know where to begin with that trade.
I guess I will start with this. That trade could work out for Washington. It could work out if Robert Griffin III is Peyton Manning and John Elway rolled into one package, and the next 14 years are a halcyon era that ends with Daniel Snyder hugging RGIII and crying at a podium, because he has to move on after the Redskins had a rare bad season when the 36-year old Robert Griffin III had a knee injury, and the team is set to draft Owen Lisk first overall. So yes, all that could happen.
Short of that, there is little way that they actually get equivalent value to what they surrendered, even if RG III turns out to be among the top 25% or so of all quarterbacks selected in the Top 3 of a draft. If Griffin is merely an average 2nd overall pick, which is to say a pretty good starter for a period of time (think Jim Everett), and if the Rams are just average at drafting with those four draft picks, they will get more than double the value of Washington.
A few weeks ago, I talked about what the draft value chart would look like based on actual results. I also delved into the history of the Draft Value Chart, looking at the actual years used, and seeing that there were only three trades at the top of the draft included, that were likely not representative. I was meaning to do a follow up post looking at the years prior to 1987, to show that it was not representative of actual trading behavior. Then, the Scrutiny on the Bounty hit, and things got crazy, and I figured it would be best to wait until all the March Madness and Manning Madness and Bounty Madness passed before getting back into it.
But now seems like as good a time as any. I can tell you that, yes, the Draft Value Chart created by the Dallas Cowboys never actually reflected trading behavior in the league, beyond a small four year window with a small sample size. If they had included a decade’s worth of data, rather than four years, the chart would have looked much, much different. For example, did you know just a few years before the Draft Value Chart was created, someone traded the first overall pick for the #16 pick and the #28 pick. That’s all. Just those two. Could you imagine if that happened today? Well, that was in 1984, when the Bengals traded down and the Patriots gave up those two picks to select Irving Fryar. According to the chart now, that was a trade of 3000 points for 1660 points. Unconscionable.
From 1978 to 1986, in a period that was ignored in creating the Draft Value Chart, there were 13 trades of at least one pick within the top ten in a draft. Only 3 resulted in the team trading down getting more value than the Chart, and those were just barely over. The average result from those high draft pick trades was that the team trading down got over 400 fewer points than the Chart (based on 1987-1990) would have dictated.
If we were going to redraft the Draft Value Chart based on actual team trading behavior, and use a larger sample size, then the top 3 picks wouldn’t be worth 3000, 2600, 2200, respectively. They would be worth 2400, 2200, and 2000 (with the 4th pick still worth 1800). That seems more reasonable, doesn’t it? Instead, we got a poorly constructed chart that never really reflected reality, and it became dogma (Dallas was successful, ergo it became popular, when the success was likely independent of the validity of the underlying values).
It has become gospel, when trades are actually accomplished near the top. The problem is that people sort of knew it was bad, but couldn’t stop speaking that language. The result was fewer trades in the top 10 than a generation earlier, much fewer. Among those that were consummated, only the Baltimore/Jacksonville trade to get Derrick Harvey deviated by as much as the average trade from the 80′s.
One thing I can tell you, though, is that quarterbacks do generally demand more in trade among the top five picks. The problem is that the baseline is now out of whack, and then the Redskins just shot that through the roof. Let’s go through every trade where a team traded up to get a QB in the top 3 of a draft since the merger. The Washington Redskins lapped the field in what they gave up. I’ll go through that in a post later today, though.
For now, let’s just leave it with this. Robert Griffin III may turn out to be pretty good. This is still a trade that likely doesn’t work out for Washington. They have no first round picks the next two years, and no early second rounder this year. If he’s merely an average 2nd overall pick, it’s a disaster. If he is a bust, oh boy.
So congratulations, Robert Griffin III. The Redskins really want you. They also have no sense of value and just paid way too much, robbing you of getting good players around you. Using the value of the 12th pick in the next two drafts, Washington gave up 4520 points on the trade value chart to get 2600. But the future picks are discounted, you say? Yes, at usurious rates, which is why teams should not trade future picks. By waiting a year, the Rams almost double their chances of getting a good starter if we count that future first as a current second for trade purposes.
Daniel Snyder is the perennial offseason champ, and it looks like he’s done it again. As we know, that’s the only thing they’ve won since he’s been there. I don’t see that changing.
[photo via US Presswire]

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48 Responses to “Congratulations, Robert Griffin III, You’re About to be Drafted By an Idiotic Washington Organization”
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March 10th, 2012 at 9:06 AM
If RG3 is what he’s supposed to be, then I think it’s a good move. Still vastly overpaid, but not anywhere close to the worst NFL personnel move made by a team yesterday.
March 10th, 2012 at 9:11 AM
At first, I thought WAS might be okay if RG3 can win for them in 5 years or so. But, it’s almost like you’d have to wait 6 years, but essentially they mandated they must draft high impact guys in the 2nd and 3rd rounds for 3 straight years. And I dont think that’s going to happen.
Would the Rams give up one of their 2nd rounders to CLE to swap up from 6 to 4 & get Blackmon?
March 10th, 2012 at 9:12 AM
Is the Rams staying in St Louis settled?
Sounds like a good young team is about to hit L.A.
March 10th, 2012 at 9:25 AM
Hey Lisk, really late to the party on this but your Big 12 tournament post from a day or two ago was great stuff. I’m an old Big 8 guy myself and this whole thing is incredibly sad.
March 10th, 2012 at 9:28 AM
“Is the” nice English
March 10th, 2012 at 9:40 AM
Who excited for golf and hoops today? Great TV day.
March 10th, 2012 at 9:44 AM
As a Skins fan, I’m pretty fine with the deal, mainly because it provides the intangible HOPE. There is going to a major buzz among a fan base that has become pretty apathetic. I’ve been so depressed to go to games at FedEx Field the last couple of years, and find that the crowd is half Steelers, Eagles, and Cowboys fans. It’s depressing. RG3 is going to, at least for now, keep that from happening.
My personal opinion is that he’s the best college QB since Peyton. I hope I’m right.
March 10th, 2012 at 9:45 AM
Thats the most absurd trade I’ve ever seen. To move up four, FOUR, spots when you have holes over your entire roster.
Just an FYI young Robert, your chuck and duck passing style wont work so well with Jabar Gaffney and their disgusting WR corps.
March 10th, 2012 at 9:54 AM
Possibly…but I would bet a month’s salary that Vincent Jackson is going to be a Redskin next year…and maybe Mike Wallace too. Drunken sailor spending is about to go down in DC. Is that a good thing? Maybe, maybe not. But they ain’t going into next season with the current WR corps.
And Leonard Hankerson is a legit stud, as the rest of the NFL will find out soon enough.
March 10th, 2012 at 9:55 AM
Never mind about Mike Wallace, forgot he was tendered. Duh. He ain’t going to WAS.
March 10th, 2012 at 9:57 AM
St. Louis fleeced them. STL will have two top 10 picks in 2013 and at least one in 2014 (Was). By then Snyder will be on another new recycled coach and STL will be contending.
Now we now the top 3-Luck, RG3 and Kalil to the Vikes. Who goes #4?
March 10th, 2012 at 9:57 AM
JayV – I was talking with one of my friends before on facebook earlier who said exactly what you said, Redskins are about to go all in on signing Vincent Jackson. I was hoping the Eagles would go after him, but the ‘Skins have him now.
March 10th, 2012 at 9:58 AM
So this may be the breakfast Guinness talking but shouldn’t RGIII hold out? There is no way the ‘Skins can give up that much and not sign him. RGIII has these cunts over a barrel. Bleed these dumb motherfuckers dry before ever putting on the uniform.
March 10th, 2012 at 9:59 AM
Take your pick of Blackmon, Claiborne or Richardson. Although we should ask spence what he thinks.
March 10th, 2012 at 10:00 AM
With the new rookie salary scale, I don’t really think he’s in any position to do so.
March 10th, 2012 at 10:06 AM
Claiborne. Blackmon will go 6th to the Rams.
March 10th, 2012 at 10:12 AM
Now we now the top 3-Luck, RG3 and Kalil to the Vikes. Who goes #4?
Heckert is going to back up, add a two, and maybe go for Coples or the Iowa OL. If he’s stuck there he’ll go Claiborne b/c he’ll have the highest grade.
March 10th, 2012 at 10:14 AM
I wanted to Browns to get RG3 but not at that price. Do you think they’ll go after anyone in free agency. And they better not doing anything stupid like trading back to draft Tannehill.
March 10th, 2012 at 10:20 AM
It’d be great for the Browns to get that guard from the Saints. But most likely it’ll be bargain-versatile LB or maybe a coverage safety type (Adams is UFA). If Hillis bolts they’ll have to add a journeyman RB. Hillis might end up being the beneficiary of this all.
March 10th, 2012 at 10:21 AM
Brilliant
March 10th, 2012 at 10:22 AM
Lisk, any data out there to look at Super Bowl teams, to see who had the fewest # of starting players who were 1st round draft picks?
March 10th, 2012 at 10:24 AM
So this may be the breakfast Guinness talking but shouldn’t RGIII hold out? There is no way the ‘Skins can give up that much and not sign him. RGIII has these cunts over a barrel. Bleed these dumb motherfuckers dry before ever putting on the uniform.
With the new rookie salary scale, I don’t really think he’s in any position to do so. Jay
Yep. It is a new era in the NFL regarding this type of thing. He’ll be drafted and signed with little fuss.
March 10th, 2012 at 10:28 AM
Good insight from twitter: “@evansilva Remember #Redskins have a ton of cap space, too. Fully intend to use it. Expect big supporting cast upgrades. Carl Nicks? Vincent Jackson?”
Just look at the list of Skins starting QBs as of late. Shannerpuss is all-in with this move, and really, he had to be.
March 10th, 2012 at 10:32 AM
I just watched a team with a mediocre offensive line win a Super Bowl this year. I watched a team wearing Black and Gold with a mediocre offensive line win a Super Bowl a few years back. I watched a team with a great defense lose the NFC Championship game this year because they’re QB couldn’t throw his receivers open. The Redskins traded 3 draft picks extended over 3 seasons to pick up a franchise QB and make themselves relevant again.
March 10th, 2012 at 10:34 AM
lthey’retheirMarch 10th, 2012 at 10:58 AM
Lisk, any data out there to look at Super Bowl teams, to see who had the fewest # of starting players who were 1st round draft picks?
My guess is the Washington Redskins of the 1980′s. They went a long period where they traded picks for veteran players, and their only first rounders were Darrell Green and Art Monk.
March 10th, 2012 at 11:01 AM
I just watched a team with a mediocre offensive line win a Super Bowl this year. I watched a team wearing Black and Gold with a mediocre offensive line win a Super Bowl a few years back. I watched a team with a great defense lose the NFC Championship game this year because they’re QB couldn’t throw his receivers open. The Redskins traded 3 draft picks extended over 3 seasons to pick up a franchise QB and make themselves relevant again.
I don’t disagree that if RGIII is a Hall of Fame QB, this trade will be a win for the Redskins, which is basically what I said. The concern is that they gave up a haul where he must now be that, and the trade has a very negative EV. What if he is Bernie Kosar or Daunte Culpepper or Vinny Testaverde?
March 10th, 2012 at 11:04 AM
As a Skins fan, I’m pretty fine with the deal, mainly because it provides the intangible HOPE. There is going to a major buzz among a fan base that has become pretty apathetic.
This country is littered with people who have built fortunes selling hope and dreams to people who are willing to overpay for it.
March 10th, 2012 at 11:12 AM
Let the offseason champs have their one shining moment Lisk
March 10th, 2012 at 11:18 AM
What if he is Bernie Kosar or Daunte Culpepper or Vinny Testaverde?
Kosar took a team to 3 title games, and then had his elbow blown out and suffered a cracked jaw. I think he did a little more than Dante.
March 10th, 2012 at 11:19 AM
My guess is the Washington Redskins of the 1980′s.
Yeah I shoulda said salary cap era. I dont even compare the team building of pre-cap to post-cap eras.
This country is littered with people who have built fortunes selling hope and dreams to people who are willing to overpay for it.
Bible sales are the way to go.
Todd Charske.
March 10th, 2012 at 11:24 AM
Kosar took a team to 3 title games, and then had his elbow blown out and suffered a cracked jaw. I think he did a little more than Dante
I wasn’t necessarily saying that they had exactly identical careers, only that they presented different situations, all of which would be a well above average result for the career of a top QB pick. Kosar, pretty good early, injury, pretty much done by 29. Culpepper, pretty good early, injury, done before 28. Testaverde, saddled by horrible team, struggles, but goes on to a long career and good seasons when he plays with better teams in Cleveland and New York, so the drafting franchise realizes little of it.
March 10th, 2012 at 11:36 AM
The problem with your pov is you place a higher level of certainty on the unknown of what can come out of the 3 picks the Skins gave up than you do on RGIII,when in reality there is an ability to flop for every pick from Luck, to Griffin, on down. So, as a team thats drafting, you have to look at each player and determine what it is they can bring to your team and what are their deficiencies and from their make your decision. Thats where the debate on RGIII or any draft pick should start. The Skins are a team with a very good defense, an offensive system that creates running lanes for rb’s, a rising TE in Fred Davis, an underrated WR in Moss, and a hole at QB. RGIII takes this squad to the next level, just like Bernie Kosar did for the Browns.
March 10th, 2012 at 11:36 AM
Poor guy is focked. Seriously, the Redskins organization?!?! They’re more inept than the Phins. They’re owner is qwaaaazzzzzy, though the Skins cheerleaders are hot
March 10th, 2012 at 11:37 AM
They also have no sense of value and just paid way too much, robbing you of getting good players around you
that is what i dont like about this move. rg will need some good pieces, just like any other qb. skins gave up too much.
but, the comments of “dink and dunk” and “he played against a crappy big 12 d” need to fucking stop. it is lazy and pathetic that a good sports blog can overlook so much and reduce rgIII to those points. outside of the sec, no one plays d. and rgIII is one of the most accurate deep passers of the last 20 years.
March 10th, 2012 at 11:44 AM
Kosar is gold. Guy was knocked on his career what his mechanics, foot & arm, and all he did was win games and make the most with his skills. Love Bernie, still listen to on WQAM from time to time.
March 10th, 2012 at 11:45 AM
Lotta pressure on WAS to hit on their existing draft picks. Damn. In reality not having a 1st rounder will have them make a UFA signing = the slotted cap space of the 1st rounder. It’ll be intersting on how they inject young talent on that team. Maybe look for the Maybins of the world.
March 10th, 2012 at 11:46 AM
Apparently Kosar is not a drunk, and his slurred speech is a result of a botched jaw repair.
March 10th, 2012 at 11:50 AM
He was going to be a Bust anyway. He had exaggerated numbers in a conference that played no Defense. He ass raped Washington in the Alamo Bowl, another school from another conference that play no Defense.
Bust. He is the adam morrison of Black QB/s. But of course you will defend them and blame it on the inept Redskins who have such a bad stink people will over look that fact taht Griffin is overrated.
March 10th, 2012 at 11:55 AM
In addition to the IRS and the creditors and an angry ex-wife chasing his ass all the time. I like Bernie, I cheered for the Browns in playoffs (when not playing against MIA) when I was kid. He was tough. I think those Browns teams got a raw deal in the late 80s against the Broncos. the Browns were a bad ass team then. Would of done a whole hell of alot better than those shitty DEN SBs we had to watch then.
March 10th, 2012 at 11:56 AM
Who is the Adam Morrison of QBs? race is irrelevant to the conversation
March 10th, 2012 at 12:20 PM
Then, who is the Larry Bird of Black QB’s?
March 10th, 2012 at 12:28 PM
Then, who is the Larry Bird of Black QB’s?
what would it be like if the Larry Bird of Black QB’s was white?
March 10th, 2012 at 12:37 PM
Chaos.
March 10th, 2012 at 12:39 PM
They’d make him a wide receiver?
March 10th, 2012 at 12:43 PM
I wonder what the Colts could have gotten for the #1?
Keep Peyton, trade the Luck pick, trade for a guy like Flynn. Improve the whole roster?
March 10th, 2012 at 1:02 PM
I wonder what the Colts could have gotten for the #1?
I’ve been wondering that myself. But not with keeping Peyton. I like it better with bottoming out completely (like they’re doing) and then getting a bunch of picks. Maybe they get all those picks next year when they finish 1-15 again and somebody wants that kid from USC really bad, Barkley.
March 10th, 2012 at 1:57 PM
This definitely is karmic payback for 1999, when the Skins got the Aints’ entire draft in exchange for the pick that was Ricky Williams. Of course, Washington did nothing with all those picks outside of Champ Bailey, while New Orleans had to draft Deuce McAllister three years later because Ricky was such a head case.