Stats Say the 40-Yard-Dash Time at the NFL Combine Doesn’t Matter for QBs or WRs

All, NFL, NFL Combine Jason McIntyre February 28th. 2012, 12:00pm

The brilliant minds at the Harvard Sports Analysis Collective have broken out the calculators and crunched the numbers and determined this about offensive players at the NFL draft combine:

the vertical leap, broad jump, and 3-cone drill do not accurately predict production at any position. Bench press repetitions are only significant for tight ends. Height is important for two positions (quarterback and running back), as is the 20-yard shuttle (for quarterbacks and centers). Weight matters for tackles and running backs. The 40-yard dash is the most commonly significant statistic, influencing four positions (running backs, tight ends, guards, and tackles). These results suggest that the combine should experiment with some other measurements that may better predict performance, especially for wide receivers and full backs.

So Robert Griffin’s 40-time? Not all that important. Hope the Browns or Redskins don’t mortgage the franchise for a crack at the Heisman Trophy winner who torched the allergic-to-defense Big 12 denizens. [HSAC]

[Photos: Dont'a Hightower outside, David Wilson inside, both via US Presswire]

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141 Responses to “Stats Say the 40-Yard-Dash Time at the NFL Combine Doesn’t Matter for QBs or WRs”

1
ms621 Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:03 PM
So Robert Griffin’s 40-time? Not all that important
Considering he should be throwing most of the time, it really is not that important.
2
Irvin Pankey Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:03 PM
Link.
3
vajayjay redick Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:04 PM
Hope the Browns or Redskins don’t mortgage the franchise for a crack at the Heisman Trophy winner who torched the allergic-to-defense Big 12 denizens.
Nah they’ll do it because he’s so “well-spoken.”
4
rittyrich Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:04 PM
Glad somebody put pen to paper on that nonsense. Bet it falls on dead NFL ears though.
5
rittyrich Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:04 PM
* deaf
6
Babar 2.0 Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:05 PM
Hope the Browns or Redskins don’t mortgage the franchise for a crack at the Heisman Trophy winner who torched the allergic-to-defense Big 12 denizens.
You are assuming they are drafting him for his 40 time…which would be untrue.
7
KingGrizz Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:06 PM
“well-spoken.”
Is there such a thing as a “well spoken” white guy?
8
Cowboy Mike's Red Hot Ricochet Barbecue Sauce Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:06 PM
Height is important for two positions (quarterback and running back)
Yep and yep.
9
St. Bear Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:07 PM
Considering he should be throwing most of the time, it really is not that important.
The future of the quarterback position.
/Cam Newton
//Willie Beamon
///Michael Vick
////Randall Cunningham
10
T.E. Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:07 PM
Hope the Browns or Redskins don’t mortgage the franchise
There are already rumors that Snyder is willing to basically give up most of his top picks in this and next year’s draft to St. Louis for the two spot.
11
vajayjay redick Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:08 PM
Is there such a thing as a “well spoken” white guy?
Nope. But they all have “high motors.”
12
jck49erfan Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:08 PM
Glad somebody put pen to paper on that nonsense. Bet it falls on dead NFL ears though.
Exactly. The combine, for the most part, is a joke. Can the dude play football or what?
13
St. Bear Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:10 PM
Exactly. The combine, for the most part, is a joke. Can the dude play football or what?
Maybe, but think about it from a team’s perspective. They already have tape of every game he’s played, so why not run him through some tests to see if he’s committed to an off season program?
More information >>> Less information
14
Cowboy Mike's Red Hot Ricochet Barbecue Sauce Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:10 PM
Also there’s a huge difference between a QB being fast not being an indicator of success and not being an asset. If the guy has the ability to make plays with his feet and with his arm and you have the chance to get him (and a glaring need at the position) it would not be stupid to move up for him.
Especially considering that if you’re drafting near the top there’s a good chance your offensive line sucks. The difference between a non mobile QB and a QB with legs behind a terrible line can be the difference between David Carr getting murdered and Big Ben being massively wealthy and having two rings.
In short. To the title of this post: wrong.
15
jck49erfan Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:11 PM
There are already rumors that Snyder is willing to basically give up most of his top picks in this and next year’s draft to St. Louis for the two spot.
Idiot.
16
H.E. Pennypacker Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:12 PM
Is there such a thing as a “well spoken” white guy?
Nope. But they all have “high motors.”
Anytime a conversation like this gets started I have the sudden urge to murder David Eckstein with a javelin.
17
jck49erfan Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:13 PM
so why not run him through some tests to see if he’s committed to an off season program?
I’ll give you that…some of these guys just don’t give a shit. Then again, you have coaches like Mike Nolan who make the two guys they are thinking of drafting do stupid tests and one of them looks at you and wonders what the fuck is going on and the other does them without question.
In short, I wish we would have drafted Aaron Rodgers.
18
jck49erfan Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:14 PM
Nope. But they all have “high motors.”
/needs more “scrappy”
19
ms621 Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:14 PM
Maybe, but think about it from a team’s perspective. They already have tape of every game he’s played, so why not run him through some tests to see if he’s committed to an off season program?
This seems to be the greatest value of the combine. Which is fine. But I’m sure anyone with basic research skills could put together a post which documents how many players who had a great combine didn’t amount to anything in the NFL.
20
vezina Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:14 PM
this is meaty
21
vajayjay redick Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:14 PM
Anytime a conversation like this gets started I have the sudden urge to murder David Eckstein with a javelin.
You mean Scrappy McGrittygamer?
22
Babar 2.0 Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:16 PM
Yep and yep.
So heavier and shorter running backs tend to be more successful in the NFL than lighter, taller players; speed is also very important for RBs.
From the article. So Danny Woodhead just needs to add 30 pounds, then HOF.
23
Breesus Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:16 PM
My favorite stories from the past were about how Akili Smith became a high draft pick because he could throw the ball 90 yards–which of course comes in very handy when it’s 3rd and 89.
Or how Kyle Boller could throw the ball 50 yards on his knees. He would have overthrown his intended target by 30 yards, but it’s still damn impressive, right?
24
BFFredo Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:16 PM
Of course it doesn’t. I’m more interested in their ability to read defenses, recognize mismatches and exploit gaps in the defense.
If the QB makes the right read and the WR gets to the right space ahead of the DB, they’re going to connect. If the WR can make the right break from his defender, he finds himself open and staring at open field — where even the fastest 40 time can’t help DBs catch up.
25
José Ovechkin Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:16 PM
Stats Say the 40-Yard-Dash Time at the NFL Combine Doesn’t Matter for QBs
As should common sense. WRs though, it’s a weird thing. Lot of quick, speedy receivers have succeed in the NFL with relatively slow 40 times.
26
Irvin Pankey Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:17 PM
This is such a shitty way to do a study. He just threw a bunch of shit in a regression and ran with it.
27
VladimirCrouton Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:17 PM
Is there such a thing as a “well spoken” white guy?
Nope. But they all have “high motors.”
A student of the game.
28
ms621 Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:18 PM
Nope. But they all have “high motors.”
/needs more “scrappy”
//and “deceptive speed”.
29
vezina Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:18 PM
huh, 40s don’t matter for WRs and i’m surprised height matters for RBs…do they mean tall for QBs and shorter for RBs? cuz i think ray rice is pretty happy and mjd is pretty happy with their ‘height’
30
Cowboy Mike's Red Hot Ricochet Barbecue Sauce Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:18 PM
So you guys really think that it would not have made Tom Brady or Peyton evening better players to be a few steps quicker than they are? Okay.
31
MP III Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:18 PM
Hope the Browns or Redskins don’t mortgage the franchise for a crack at the Heisman Trophy winner who torched the allergic-to-defense Big 12 denizens.
to be fair, he also torched the allergic to defense Pac 12, Mountain West, and CUSA. But hey, so did andrew luck.
32
HuskerDawg Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:19 PM
I’ve never understood the fascination with the 40. I remember when Fabian Washington ran a sub 4.3 and got the Raiders (who else?) to bite in the first round. It’s a silly exercise.
33
Cowboy Mike's Red Hot Ricochet Barbecue Sauce Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:19 PM
do they mean tall for QBs and shorter for RBs? cuz i think ray rice is pretty happy and mjd is pretty happy with their ‘height’
Yep. See the children’s elephant’s quote.
34
H.E. Pennypacker Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:19 PM
So you guys really think that it would not have made Tom Brady or Peyton evening better players to be a few steps quicker than they are? Okay.
Yeah, they’d be almost as good as Aaron Rodgers.
35
Jim Harbaugh Scramble Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:20 PM
So Robert Griffin’s 40-time? Not all that important.
amazing how things change so quickly. just the other day it was “he ran a 4.38, you must mortgage your future to get him.” today, “40 times don’t matter.”
36
BFFredo Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:21 PM
So you guys really think that it would not have made Tom Brady or Peyton evening better players to be a few steps quicker than they are? Okay.
So instead of being two of the 10 best QBs ever, they’d be…2 of the bestest QBs evah!!!!!(?)
37
H.E. Pennypacker Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:21 PM
I’ve never understood the fascination with the 40. I remember when Fabian Washington ran a sub 4.3 and got the Raiders (who else?) to bite in the first round. It’s a silly exercise.
…That will also never be duplicated in any sort of game scenario (running in a straight line in your underwear without anyone chasing you).
38
HuskerDawg Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:21 PM
The biggest thing the combine does is put the kids in a pressure situation. That lets the teams see how they handle things, both in the interviews and on the field.
39
vajayjay redick Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:21 PM
If they didnt have them run the 40 at the combine, the Raiders wouldnt know who to draft every year.
40
Ty_Webb 1.0 Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:22 PM
I’ve never understood the fascination with the 40. I remember when Fabian Washington ran a sub 4.3 and got the Raiders (who else?) to bite in the first round. It’s a silly exercise.
I think Jerry Rice ran a 4.6, pretty average by todays standards…
41
HuskerDawg Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:22 PM
I wish they would put pads and a helmet on all of the players for the on-field stuff.
42
Cowboy Mike's Red Hot Ricochet Barbecue Sauce Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:23 PM
Alternatively: if Ben isn’t as quick as he is the Colts get a crack at carrying Peyton to a SB a year earlier.
43
vajayjay redick Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:23 PM
I think Jerry Rice ran a 4.6, pretty average by todays standards…
Anquan Boldin may have had the slowest 40 time ever.
44
H.E. Pennypacker Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:23 PM
The biggest thing the combine does is put the kids in a pressure situation. That lets the teams see how they handle things, both in the interviews and on the field.
Yep. More organizations need to follow our lead and ask questions like “Was your mother a whore?”
–Miami Dolphins managment
45
Jim Harbaugh Scramble Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:24 PM
Yeah, they’d be almost as good as Aaron Rodgers.
he has an unfair advantage due to his herp medicine. allegedly.
46
Matty_Cam Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:24 PM
If they didnt have them run the 40 at the combine, the Raiders wouldnt know who to draft every year.
This. – God rest his soul, but we all know Al Davis was a different kinda cat when it came to who he drafted, but does Heyward-Bey go that high to the Raiders if he does’t run a 4.2 or whatever it was at the combine?
47
St. Bear Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:25 PM
Or how Kyle Boller could throw the ball 50 yards on his knees. He would have overthrown his intended target by 30 yards, but it’s still damn impressive, right?
JaMarcus Russell credits every purple drank he ever drank to this little exercise.
That’s the other thing the combine does. It weeds out the retarded teams who ignore the tape and base their drafts on one weekend in Indy.
Counterpoint, you can’t rely exclusively on tape either. Just ask Dikta about Ricky Williams.
48
H.E. Pennypacker Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:25 PM
So Robert Griffin’s 40-time? Not all that important. Hope the Browns or Redskins don’t mortgage the franchise for a crack at the Heisman Trophy winner who torched the allergic-to-defense Big 12 denizens.
What’s TBL trying to say here? That RG3 ins’t good because of the D’s he went up against. Luck played in the Pac-(12 men are needed on defense in order to stop opposing offenses).
49
WWoS Stayed At a Holiday Inn Express Last Night Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:25 PM
the vertical leap, broad jump, and 3-cone drill do not accurately predict production at any position.
This is stupid. Harvard is stupid. TBL is stupid for having the wrong commentary.
A 40-yard dash won’t make a shitty player great… but if player x was really good but was .1 seconds faster, 0.something better in drills, he’d possibly be great.
Take the top 50 recievers in the league, and see if the top 25 have better cone drill than the next 25. Take the top 40 RBs in the league, and see if faster ones are better.
Running faster wasn’t going to make JaMarcus Russell not be shit, just be faster shit. To Mike’s point… if Tom Brady ran a 4.5 40, he’d be even better than he already is.
50
Cowboy Mike's Red Hot Ricochet Barbecue Sauce Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:25 PM
Also I’d sure as hell rather trade away a draft based on athleticism than whatever the hell the Jets reasoning was with Sanchez.
51
Babar 2.0 Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:26 PM
I think Jerry Rice ran a 4.6, pretty average by todays standards…
But Jerry could run a 4.6 20 times in a row…his fitness was astonishing.
52
vezina Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:26 PM
amazing how things change so quickly. just the other day it was “he ran a 4.38, you must mortgage your future to get him.” today, “40 times don’t matter.”
it’s not that tough….drills need to be position-appropriate to matter more. i don’t gve a fuck what 40 time my OL runs, but i do care about agility and cool facial hair
53
johndewar Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:26 PM
40-times and other combine measurables are just data points to be used as part of a wider analysis of a prospect. I think putting too much weight into these measurables is a foolish way to run a draft.
And as much as I love NFL football, I don’t quite get the fascination with the NFL combine. Unless, of course, you can gamble on it.
54
H.E. Pennypacker Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:26 PM
Also I’d sure as hell rather trade away a draft based on athleticism than whatever the hell the Jets reasoning was with Sanchez.
Well, the new stadium probably needed some landscaping, didn’t it?
55
vajayjay redick Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:26 PM
I think the biggest news to come from the combine is that Justin Blackmon is shorter than Danny Woodhead.
56
WWoS Stayed At a Holiday Inn Express Last Night Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:27 PM
Weight matters for tackles and running backs.
Weight is correlated (to varying degrees) with height -and arm length- and strength. Unless they corrected for those variables, fuck everyone. Jesus God you fucking egghead morons.
57
St. Bear Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:27 PM
i don’t gve a fuck what 40 time my OL runs, but i do care about agility and cool facial hair
I’m believing in this more and more.
58
MP Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:27 PM
So I can’t get on the HSAC site at work, but I need to read more about this. What do they mean by “does not matter”? Doesn’t it depend on how a team plans on using him?
59
ms621 Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:28 PM
So you guys really think that it would not have made Tom Brady or Peyton evening better players to be a few steps quicker than they are? Okay.
I don’t think anyone is saying that (unless I missed it). Certainly speed and quick feet are great assets, but it is by itself not an indicator of value over time.
60
vezina Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:28 PM
if Tom Brady ran a 4.5 40, he’d be even better than he already is.
urlacher thinks he’s already pretty agile mobile and hostile
61
HuskerDawg Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:28 PM
if Tom Brady ran a 4.5 40, he’d be even better than he already is.
Would he be? Would he have developed insane pocket presence if he could tuck it and run all of the time? Would have developed the timing he has if he could bail himself out frequently by running around a bunch?
62
José Ovechkin Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:29 PM
There are already rumors that Snyder is willing to basically give up most of his top picks in this and next year’s draft to St. Louis for the two spot.
God, I hope so.
Speed isn’t the end-all be-all for QB’s, but that added dimension is in part why Aaron Rodgers edges out every other QB in the league right now.
63
cleet Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:29 PM
Anytime a conversation like this gets started I have the sudden urge to murder David Eckstein with a javelin.
Would it calm your urge if you knew he married a girl who competed on GUTS?
64
Irvin Pankey Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:29 PM
Would he be? Would he have developed insane pocket presence if he could tuck it and run all of the time? Would have developed the timing he has if he could bail himself out frequently by running around a bunch?
Think how much better his pocket presence would be if he were slower!
65
Cowboy Mike's Red Hot Ricochet Barbecue Sauce Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:30 PM
I don’t think anyone is saying that (unless I missed it).
Several people in here and the title of the post have said “it does not matter.” Quarterback speed does matter. Not really debatable.
66
H.E. Pennypacker Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:30 PM
Would it calm your urge if you knew he married a girl who competed on GUTS?
Please tell me this is a fact.
67
ButtersBC Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:30 PM
The biggest thing the combine does is put the kids in a pressure situation. That lets the teams see how they handle things, both in the interviews and on the field.
This is correct, in one of the few times that Ted Thompson’s given some insight on how he operates has said when watching the drills he’s just as interested in seeing how focused the players are and how they’re interacting with the other prospects as he is with the results…thought it was an interesting comment
68
WWoS Stayed At a Holiday Inn Express Last Night Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:30 PM
I hate poorly designed studies, and the random throwing of shit into a computer and finding p-values.
Wide receivers: none of the metrics measured at the combine significantly predict the performance of wide receivers. The closest statistic is the 40-yard dash, with a p value of 0.08. Some seem to place special importance on the 40-yard dash when deciding which receivers to draft. Perhaps they should rethink that strategy.
Apparently multiple testings corrections haven’t made it to Harvard yet. As Nick can confirm, a p-value of 0.05 will lead to a type 1 (false positive) error one out of 20 times. So if you do 20 tests on a normally-distributed statistic, it’s gonna come back as spurriously significant 5% of the time.
/fuck this
69
Babar 2.0 Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:30 PM
Would he be? Would he have developed insane pocket presence if he could tuck it and run all of the time? Would have developed the timing he has if he could bail himself out frequently by running around a bunch?
But at the same time, what does the threat of running do to a defensive scheme? Imagine one less LB in coverage at times.
70
St. Bear Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:31 PM
Speed isn’t the end-all be-all for QB’s, but that added dimension is in part why Aaron Rodgers edges out every other QB in the league right now.
Um, the way last season ended, I was under the impression that he is a compiling system QB who lucked into his team winning him a championship.
71
Cowboy Mike's Red Hot Ricochet Barbecue Sauce Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:32 PM
Would he be? Would he have developed insane pocket presence if he could tuck it and run all of the time? Would have developed the timing he has if he could bail himself out frequently by running around a bunch?
I’m not saying if he had the speed of RGIII and is going to run all the time. Ben rarely runs, and it isn’t always to gain yardage, but to extend the play and get away from the rush.
Brady might not be a better example than Manning. If Manning had the ability to avoid a single sack in his career, holy shit.
72
cleet Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:33 PM
Please tell me this is a fact.
OH it is. Her nickname was “The Face” and she got 2nd, no glowing piece of the Crag for her.
73
Cowboy Mike's Red Hot Ricochet Barbecue Sauce Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:33 PM
Also there seem to be a lot of people who don’t understand what the word ‘matters’ means.
74
Irvin Pankey Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:33 PM
Um, the way last season ended, I was under the impression that he is a compiling system QB who lucked into his team winning him a championship.
I wouldn’t go that far. He’s a solid QB. He just can’t beat Eli Manning. Not many can.
75
vezina Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:34 PM
Jesus God you fucking egghead morons.
harvard!! jeremy lin!! who’s the moron jhs?
76
HuskerDawg Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:34 PM
But at the same time, what does the threat of running do to a defensive scheme? Imagine one less LB in coverage at times.
Part of the reason Player X is so great is because he knows what he can and can’t do. If he can fly, maybe he cuts off his progression after 2 guys because he can run. If he can’t run, he knows he has to be able to break down all of his progressions. The drawbacks to a player make them what they are. I don’t think you can automatically say if Brady ran a 4.5 he’d be as good. For one thing, he would have been a first or second round pick for sure, meaning he might not have the chip on his shoulder that he has now. That alone is one of the biggest reasons why he’s so good in my opinion.
77
ms621 Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:35 PM
Several people in here and the title of the post have said “it does not matter.” Quarterback speed does matter. Not really debatable.
I missed the other comments then, but was excluding JMAC since I assume I’ll disagree with any post he writes with the word “stats” in it.
QB speed matters of course, but as you pointed out, a good o-line will conceal a lack of speed. Which is kind of what I thought your point originally was.
78
Cowboy Mike's Red Hot Ricochet Barbecue Sauce Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:35 PM
Part of the reason Player X is so great is because he knows what he can and can’t do. If he can fly, maybe he cuts off his progression after 2 guys because he can run. If he can’t run, he knows he has to be able to break down all of his progressions. The drawbacks to a player make them what they are. I don’t think you can automatically say if Brady ran a 4.5 he’d be as good. For one thing, he would have been a first or second round pick for sure, meaning he might not have the chip on his shoulder that he has now. That alone is one of the biggest reasons why he’s so good in my opinion.
Holy shit this is the most heavily veiled “white players are smarter than black players and have to work harder” comment ever.
79
scripty Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:35 PM
Im at the point where Heckert should just tell the Rams to fuck off with a double #1 salute.
80
vezina Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:36 PM
Also there seem to be a lot of people who don’t understand what the word ‘matters’ means.
or ‘doesn’t’
81
Irvin Pankey Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:37 PM
Im at the point where Heckert should just tell the Rams to fuck off with a double #1 salute.
If the Rams want all of those rumored picks, they should see what the Colts want for Luck.
82
jck49erfan Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:37 PM
Would it calm your urge if you knew he married a girl who competed on GUTS?
Made my day. Moe can get it.
83
Cowboy Mike's Red Hot Ricochet Barbecue Sauce Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:37 PM
QB speed matters of course, but as you pointed out, a good o-line will conceal a lack of speed. Which is kind of what I thought your point originally was.
Yeah. And that if a team is picking close to the top of the draft there’s a good chance their line is not stellar.
84
WWoS Stayed At a Holiday Inn Express Last Night Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:38 PM
Part of the reason Player X is so great is because he knows what he can and can’t do.
Just say “Wes Welker”, it’s okay.
85
mizerle06 is mcintyred of all the trollin' Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:38 PM
I’m really starting to enjoy when WWoS waltzs in here and textually punches TBL in the mouth for his misuse of stats. it reminds me of a less Canadian version of fetch.
86
Cowboy Mike's Red Hot Ricochet Barbecue Sauce Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:39 PM
Racer X is better than most the other racers on Speed Racer because he’s not black.
/husker’d
87
St. Bear Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:39 PM
Enhance your calm, mike.
88
HuskerDawg Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:39 PM
Holy shit this is the most heavily veiled “white players are smarter than black players and have to work harder” comment ever.
Wow. Talk about reading way more into what I’m saying that what was intended.
89
Cowboy Mike's Red Hot Ricochet Barbecue Sauce Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:40 PM
but was excluding JMAC since I assume I’ll disagree with any post he writes with the word “stats” in it.
Fairest of the fair points ever fairly made, sir.
90
WWoS Stayed At a Holiday Inn Express Last Night Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:41 PM
Wow. Talk about reading way more into what I’m saying that what was intended.
Whoa. RT: Part of the reason Player X is so great is because he knows what he can and can’t do. If he can fly, maybe he cuts off his progression after 2 guys because he can run. If he can’t run, he knows he has to be able to break down all of his progressions. The drawbacks to a player make them what they are. I don’t think you can automatically say if Brady ran a 4.5 he’d be as good. For one thing, he would have been a first or second round pick for sure, meaning he might not have the chip on his shoulder that he has now. That alone is one of the biggest reasons why he’s so good in my opinion.
/TBL
91
vezina Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:41 PM
but if wwos wasn’t such a dick, we wouldn;t have to think as hard. i wanted to read this type of stuff to back up my hypotheses and i am happier despite his wet blanketing
92
Breesus Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:41 PM
QB times do matter. Look at Jordan Jefferson. He can sprint out of bounds and not throw a pass faster than any QB in history!
/January 9th’d
93
ms621 Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:41 PM
Yeah. And that if a team is picking close to the top of the draft there’s a good chance their line is not stellar.
Agreed.
/not sure that we ever in disagreement in the first place
94
Irvin Pankey Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:42 PM
ms621 and cowboy should get an apartment together after this.
95
WWoS Stayed At a Holiday Inn Express Last Night Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:43 PM
I’m really starting to enjoy when WWoS waltzs in here and textually punches TBL in the mouth for his misuse of stats.
Well today it’s mostly Harvard I’m mad at. Though I did just read this
and shake my head at him, too.
So Robert Griffin’s 40-time? Not all that important. Hope the Browns or Redskins don’t mortgage the franchise for a crack at the Heisman Trophy winner who torched the allergic-to-defense Big 12 denizens. [HSAC]
96
ms621 Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:43 PM
ms621 and cowboy should get an apartment together after this.
I don’t think he’d dig me. I snore.
97
mrejr8234 comes for the sports posts but stays to kill the local inhabitants Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:43 PM
Raw Review with video of Cena working circles around the Rock on the mic…We’re all pretty broke up about it
98
Eric T0upal aka BrawnyTom Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:43 PM
What a shitty use of “stats”. The Combines main function is for NFL team to get medical checks, face to face interviews and accurate measurables (instead of going of the inflated college ones) on prospects they plan on giving a lot of money to.
The drills either confirm what they see on tape or cause them to re-evaluate the tape. Its not like teams draft solely on these numbers or even put a ton of stock in them come draft day.
99
Cowboy Mike's Red Hot Ricochet Barbecue Sauce Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:45 PM
The drills either confirm what they see on tape or cause them to re-evaluate the tape. Its not like teams draft solely on these numbers or even put a ton of stock in them come draft day.
BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT THE RAIDERS USED TO
100
ms621 Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:45 PM
I’m really starting to enjoy when WWoS waltzs in here and textually punches TBL in the mouth for his misuse of stats.
I enjoy it because WWoS is one of the few willing to write an entire paragraph explaining in detail why a stat is misused rather than just say “JMac doesn’t know anything”.
101
WWoS Stayed At a Holiday Inn Express Last Night Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:45 PM
Can we get a p-value on how good this guy would have been when he ran a 5.0 40 yard dash?
102
Breesus Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:46 PM
So Robert Griffin’s 40-time? Not all that important. Hope the Browns or Redskins don’t mortgage the franchise for a crack at the Heisman Trophy winner who torched the allergic-to-defense Big 12 denizens
RGIII is no Todd Reesing, who, of course, is no Jason White.
103
Irvin Pankey Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:46 PM
WWOS: Have you seen the shitty Dave Berri study about first round QBs v. later round QBs?
104
Eric T0upal aka BrawnyTom Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:46 PM
If the Rams want all of those rumored picks, they should see what the Colts want for Luck.
Sounds like the #1 pick is practically untouchable. Irsay is in love with Luck, much to Cap “Team RG3″ Rooney’s dismay.
105
vajayjay redick Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:47 PM
The drills either confirm what they see on tape or cause them to re-evaluate the tape. Its not like 31 of the teams draft solely on these numbers or even put a ton of stock in them come draft day.
Fixed.
106
ButtersBC Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:47 PM
The drills either confirm what they see on tape or cause them to re-evaluate the tape. Its not like teams draft solely on these numbers or even put a ton of stock in them come draft day.
Careful, this flies in the face of every lazy “Why do teams put so much stock in the Combine?!?!” talking point you’ll read or hear this week
107
Cowboy Mike's Red Hot Ricochet Barbecue Sauce Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:47 PM
Wow. Talk about reading way more into what I’m saying that what was intended.
I know it probably wasn’t the intention, it just read that way. Guys being slow crackers have to rely on their heads more than the descendants of all those plantation workers that spent hundreds of years running from angry dogs and have those fast twitch muscles thanks to natural selection!
108
oskie Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:48 PM
Kirk Cousins
109
Cowboy Mike's Red Hot Ricochet Barbecue Sauce Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:48 PM
Sounds like the #1 pick is practically untouchable. Irsay is in love with Luck, much to Cap “Team RG3″ Rooney’s dismay.
The Colts are such a mess that they should ransom the pick and rebuild. Luck is not solving that team’s problems.
/next Carr
110
WWoS Stayed At a Holiday Inn Express Last Night Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:49 PM
WWOS: Have you seen the shitty Dave Berri study about first round QBs v. later round QBs?
No. I may have to look it up for a laugh. I do still use this cartoon you dropped on me during the Bryce Harper throwdown we had though. http://xkcd.com/882/
111
vajayjay redick Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:49 PM
RGIII is no Todd Reesing, who, of course, is no Jason White.
Maybe not but who is the best Big XII/Big 8 QB of all time in terms of NFL productivity? Kordell Stewart? There are a lot of young guys with potential in the league right now (Freeman, Bradford, maybe McCoy, probably not Gabbert) but overall it has not been a QB factory.
112
vezina Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:50 PM
whatever…you brainiacs hash it out. i just want to see a combine in pads
113
WWoS Stayed At a Holiday Inn Express Last Night Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:51 PM
RGIII is no Todd Reesing, who, of course, is no Jason White.
Give Larry back his fucking Heisman trophy! I’m going to have to change my twitter pic to me with that Heisman when it visited campus. I’ll look for the pic tonight.
114
HtownHacker Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:52 PM
With the Texans successes with JJ Watt, Brooks Reid and Brian Cushing I’m wondering if there’s not a Moneyballesque market inefficiency at work. Is there a bias against white defensive players resulting in them being a value play?
115
WWoS Stayed At a Holiday Inn Express Last Night Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:53 PM
Is there a bias against white defensive players resulting in them being a value play?
Is Howie Long’s kid still a bust?
116
BFFredo Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:53 PM
The Colts are such a mess that they should ransom the pick and rebuild. Luck is not solving that team’s problems.
/next Carr

Luck may not solve all of Indy’s problems. But saying he’s the next Carr? Come on now. That’s quite a comparison.
117
Cowboy Mike's Red Hot Ricochet Barbecue Sauce Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:53 PM
With the Texans successes with JJ Watt, Brooks Reid and Brian Cushing I’m wondering if there’s not a Moneyballesque market inefficiency at work. Is there a bias against white defensive players resulting in them being a value play?
White guys are inferior athletes and have to juice to get picked at the fifteen spot.
118
ButtersBC Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:55 PM
Is Howie Long’s kid still a bust?
I think he’s good now, just plays on that rotten team so he doesn’t get talked about much
119
Breesus Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:56 PM
Is there a bias against white defensive players resulting in them being a value play?
I wish the Saints would have kept Rob Ninkovich over Charles Grant 5 years ago.
120
squawkbox Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 12:58 PM
And, of course, the Wonderlick is not relevant either, right?
Matthew Stafford agrees.
121
Breesus Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 1:02 PM
And, of course, the Wonderlick is not relevant either, right?
Matthew Stafford agrees.
Wasn’t Vince Young’s draft position actually the same as his Wonderlic score?
122
Cowboy Mike's Red Hot Ricochet Barbecue Sauce Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 1:04 PM
Wasn’t Vince Young’s draft position actually the same as his Wonderlic score?
“Fabulous”?
123
HtownHacker Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 1:04 PM
And, of course, the Wonderlick is not relevant either, right?
Matthew Stafford agrees.
I was wishing he’d done the Wonderlic in his study (flawed though it may be).
Not sure what the Stafford reference was…he scored 38 per the study’s link. With Brady scoring 33, Eli 39, etc. the correlation he found might have been significant since they are all pretty high in CAV. McNabb’s 14 would hurt the Wonderlic cause.
124
mizerle06 is mcintyred of all the trollin' Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 1:06 PM
I enjoy it because WWoS is one of the few willing to write an entire paragraph explaining in detail why a stat is misused rather than just say “JMac doesn’t know anything”.
I feel like you’re aiming this at me. I used to detail why TBL was wrong about…well…just about everything football-related. the response I got was either no response or some veiled banhammer threat.
125
Babar 2.0 Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 1:09 PM
McNabb’s 14 would hurt the Wonderlic cause.
So would Alex Smith’s.
126
mizerle06 is mcintyred of all the trollin' Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 1:10 PM
all you ever needed to know about the Wonderlic!
127
HuskerDawg Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 1:11 PM
And, of course, the Wonderlick is not relevant either, right?
Matthew Stafford agrees.
Pretty sure StaffDaddy made a 30 or 28 or something like that.
128
HuskerDawg Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 1:11 PM
Not sure what the Stafford reference was…he scored 38 per the study’s link
I stand corrected.
129
ms621 Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 1:13 PM
I enjoy it because WWoS is one of the few willing to write an entire paragraph explaining in detail why a stat is misused rather than just say “JMac doesn’t know anything”.
I feel like you’re aiming this at me. I used to detail why TBL was wrong about…well…just about everything football-related. the response I got was either no response or some veiled banhammer threat.
It was not at all aimed at you miz. I include my self in the description of those who just say “this is stupid” without bothering to explain why.
130
ButtersBC Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 1:13 PM
The Wonderlic is tricky, it’s the clock that makes it troublesome more than the questions…never got my exact score, they just said “Upper 30s” but left 5-10 unanswered
131
mizerle06 is mcintyred of all the trollin' Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 1:15 PM
It was not at all aimed at you miz. I include my self in the description of those who just say “this is stupid” without bothering to explain why.
whatever…I just needed to include myself in the conversation so I could drop that link into #126.
132
ms621 Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 1:20 PM
I see. I feel so used.
/sobs in a corner while staring out a window
133
illformula Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 1:21 PM
Hope the Browns or Redskins don’t mortgage the franchise for a crack at the Heisman Trophy winner
i’m so torn on what package i’d be willing to live with to see him in a Skins uniform next year. i’m sure the asking price will be too high, but that’s just the nature of business these days.
when it comes down to it, i’d rather overpay and watch him disappoint in burgundy and gold than pass on him and watch him lead another team to the playoffs.
134
HtownHacker Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 1:28 PM
I just needed to include myself in the conversation so I could drop that link into #126.
Page views!!!
Good article, though.
135
Nada Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 1:29 PM
Don’t know if we’re getting a baseball post today, so there’s this feature on Chipper to tide ya’ll over.
136
vezina Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 1:34 PM
potato chipper?
fat and old
137
WWoS Stayed At a Holiday Inn Express Last Night Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 2:06 PM
/sobs in a corner while staring out a window
How exactly does that work? You sob into a corner then quick look to the side out the window? I haven’t been around a whole lot of corner-framed windows.
138
Nada Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 2:19 PM
Stats Say the 40-Yard-Dash Time at the NFL Combine Doesn’t Matter for QBs or WRs
Also OL. Why even time OL in the 40? How often do they even run 40 yards?
139
Nada Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 2:21 PM
potato chipper?
fat and old
Watch it, vez, that’s sure-fire Hall of Famer Larry Wayne Jones Jr. you’re talking about.
140
HtownHacker Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 2:32 PM
FWIW 14 RB’s over last 12 years have run under 4.4 while weighing over 200:
Mario Fannin
Demarco Murray
Ryan Williams
Ryan Matthews
Ben Tate
Andre Brown
Cedric Peerman
Kory Sheets
Michael Bennett
Darren McFadden
MJD
Tatum Bell
Kevin Jones
Justin Fargas
Edgerrin James
141
HtownHacker Says:
February 28th, 2012 at 2:34 PM
15