Super Bowl Prediction Post: Giants vs. Patriots
In Super Bowl XLII (42, not that anyone is counting) the Giants beat the Patriots in one of the biggest upsets in sports history. In week 9 of this season, the Giants beat the Patriots in New England. On Sunday, they meet again at Super Bowl XLVI in Indianapolis. Your predictions go below.
Based on the results above I just don’t see how the Giants can lose this game. It seems like decades since the Patriots won a big game. They lost to the Jets last season. The Ravens crushed them the year before that. Rob Gronkowski is hobbled by an ankle injury. They have a wide receiver playing major minutes at defensive back. Eli is your MVP. Peyton will be seen throwing chicken wings deep in the owner’s box in an attempt to rush his recovery. Pick: Giants 34, Patriots 31
Jason McIntyre: Took the Giants +3.5, but I love the loser of rematches. Patriots 27, Giants 24. I have no rooting interest in this game, but if you held a gun to my head, I’d say I was rooting for the Giants.
Jason Lisk: I’m going to go against the public movement here and take the Patriots to win this game. In the first matchup, New England moved the ball but continually failed in the red zone and on the Giants half of the field. The Giants also came up with the late drive, with the key play being a pass interference at the 1.
In that game, New England still had 438 yards, but only scored 20 points. They’ve had over 400 yards in 10 other games this year, and scored at least 30 in each. New England 30, New York 24.
Tim Ryan: Stephen Douglas just said “I just don’t see how the Giants can lose this game. It seems like decades since the Patriots won a big game.” Wow. The jinx is on. Giants fans must be livid right now. Patriots 28, Giants 17. I pray this doesn’t happen.
Ty Duffy: Can anyone truly win a football contest in which Tim Tebow is not a participant? I saw some ESPN Stats person doodling on a whiteboard on Sportscenter about the Giants’ pass rush being far less effective against two-tight end packages. Bill Belichick was confident enough to wear a purple shirt. My mother would disown me if I didn’t pick the Patriots. New England 24-17 New York Giants.
Reader Note from Jason Lisk: Last year, you put your predictions in the comments, and the winner got to pick a post topic of their choosing for me. We’ll do that again, so list the winner and loser score, and winner will be determined by difference between Giants prediction and actual score, squared, plus difference between Patriots prediction and actual score, squared, plus difference between the predicted and actual margin of victory, squared. Ties go to the earliest poster.

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165 Responses to “Super Bowl Prediction Post: Giants vs. Patriots”
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February 3rd, 2012 at 1:22 PM
Patriots win 31-20. Sterling Moore seals it with a pick 6.
/ctrl+p
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:22 PM
when is the “guess the ratings” post going up?
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:23 PM
Patriots 27 – Giants 20
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:23 PM
Patriots 30 – Giants 17
David Carr’s valiant comeback attempt in the 4th falls short.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:23 PM
I predict that I will watch about 10 minutes total of actual gameplay. I predict that I will spend most of this game drinking, eating, talking and playing poker at the party I’m going to.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:23 PM
NE – 24
NYG – 20
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:23 PM
Please, Tom Brady. Save me from an off-season of Giants fans buying “Super Bowl Champion” memorabilia.
Pats 34 Giants 21
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:25 PM
The stud QB from The University of Michigan team – 32
The hillbilly QB with the annoying-ass dad team – 20
And when I win, I want a post on the greatness known as the Detroit Red Wings.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:25 PM
Giants: 38
Patriots: 17
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:25 PM
Giants 28 – Pats 24
Brady and Belichick pull their trademark “petulantly run off the field without shaking anyone’s hand” maneuver as the clock hits 0:00.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:26 PM
NY- 21
NE- 17
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:26 PM
I can not handle another New York championship in my lifetime, especially working around so many Giants fans. Let’s go Pats!
Pats 37 Giants 20
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:26 PM
Giants 34 Pats 28
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:27 PM
Giants 38
Pats 23
MVP: Elite
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:27 PM
Circus life
Under the big top world
We all need the clowns to make us smile
Through space and time
Always another show
Wondering where I am lost without you
And being apart ain’t easy on this love affair
Two strangers learn to fall in love again
I get the joy of rediscovering you
Oh girl
You stand by me
I’m forever yours
Faithfully
Oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh
Oh oh oh oh oh oh
Faithfully
I’m still yours
I’m forever yours
Ever yours
Faithfully
Patriots: 23
Giants: 30
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:27 PM
Patriots – 17
Giants – 13
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:27 PM
I think the Eli shrinks in this game, ergo (latin), I have the Pats 33, Giants 16.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:28 PM
Patriots are only scoring 17 points? Heh heh heh
Giants 31, Patriots 27…Eli steals the MVP from Hakeem Nicks
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:28 PM
If Tom Brady is clean shaven on Sunday, the Pats are screwed.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:31 PM
Also, we’re about due for a really shitty blow-out-by-halftime Super Bowl.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:32 PM
Wow, it looks like the TBL staff cartel is down with the Pats.
The game is afoot, gentlemen.
Giants, 24-21.
The hillbilly QB with the annoying-ass dad team – 20
Boom, goes the dynamite.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:32 PM
I think the Eli shrinks in this game, ergo (latin), I have the Pats 33, Giants 16.
Cogito Ergo Sum (not quite, but close enough)
Giants 31 – Pats 27
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:32 PM
What is BBoB’s pick?
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:32 PM
NE 31 NY 27
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:33 PM
Wow, it looks like the TBL staff cartel is down with the Pats.
Whoops, I see ya, Stephen. My bad. I sit corrected.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:33 PM
MVP: GRONK
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:33 PM
If Tom Brady is clean shaven on Sunday, the Pats are screwed.
A shorn scrotum?
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:34 PM
Let the record show I got NYG 31-27 in first, enjoy the post about Lynn Dickey’s career everyone
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:34 PM
Giants 28, Patriots 25.
Eli does something fantastic in the final minutes of the fourth to win the game.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:35 PM
As long as it doesn’t say DNP next to his name, they’ll be fine. Brady will win the MVP.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:35 PM
It appears things are starting to shift today, as everyone suddenly realized that everyone and their mother had picked the Giants. Even Cowherd was locked into NY +3 but decided to pick the Pats to win by 2 today.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:35 PM
NE 38 NYG 20
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:36 PM
Pats 45 Giants 13
MVP Brady
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:36 PM
Patriots 37 – Giants 30.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:36 PM
This sounds about right. Luckily I have a practically full bottle of mediocre scotch to drown myself in.
Monday morning, I fully expect to be like Gene Wilder in Blazing Saddles.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:36 PM
can’t pick a winner, but i know we will all be losers if we have to hear “you can’t spell ELITE without E-L-I” after the game on Sunday.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:36 PM
Let the record show I got NYG 31-27 in first, enjoy the post about Lynn Dickey’s career everyone
I’ll do you one better and try to get Dickey for an interview (he lives around these parts) if I can. Assuming you win of course.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:36 PM
That’s the most in lieu thing I’ve ever seen (TBL’s version of Latin)
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:36 PM
Patriots 33, Giants 24
/ looking to win for 2nd year in a row.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:36 PM
Patriots 31 Giants 16
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:36 PM
Giants – 34
Pats – 28
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:37 PM
(I realize that isn’t Latin)
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:38 PM
NE Patriots-30
NY Giant Douches- 21
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:39 PM
Um?
Also, NYG 38 NE 21.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:39 PM
Hopefully Gronk wins MVP so Bibi Jones shows videos of herself pleasuring her pussy on twitter.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:40 PM
A man drink like that and he don’t eat, he is going to DIE!
……….When?
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:40 PM
New England 38
New York 31
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:41 PM
I’m hoping for a win and also hoping for a new meme to start on monday with people spelling funny words with eli in them.
“You can’t spell delicate without ELI!”
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:41 PM
THIS X 1000
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:41 PM
She is not a shy one on twitter.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:41 PM
Thank you. I want more people to pick the Pats; it’s starting to get a little uncomfortable.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:43 PM
OT: We’re finally getting a heavy snowfall in Denver and the Spgs. I am so glad I don’t have to navigate through it.
Also, Heather Tesch on the Weather Channel has all the answers, if you know what I mean.
/wiggles eyebrows
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:43 PM
Elisha Nelson Martian Manhunter Manning
Giants 28 Patriots 6
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:44 PM
You guys are acting like you haven’t seen Bibi Jones twitter her twat before.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:44 PM
Hopefully he retires out of shame.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:44 PM
You can see that anytime you want..this is the internet.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:44 PM
“Ya can’t spell relinquish without ELI”.
All I got, y’all.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:45 PM
While cripplingly lacking in Journey lyrics, that’s a solid post.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:45 PM
31-27 Giants.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:45 PM
Seriously.
But the sad way the male mind works is that if it’s posted on twitter and they follow the person, it’s like they’re showing it just for them.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:45 PM
Don’t be a buzzkill
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:47 PM
Giants of New York: 65
Patriots: 11
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:47 PM
“You can’t spell delicate without ELI!”
That’s rich coming from someone whose QB bitches for a flag every time he gets hit. Fucking pussy can’t take a shot without crying.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:47 PM
i do find it interesting that the giants have been elevated to having the defense of the 85 bears and the offense of the 2007 pats in the past two weeks and the Pats have been reduced to having an offense like the 2011 Jets and a defense like, well, their week 1-16 showing.
both teams got to this game by capitalizing on special teams mistakes made by the better teams 2 weeks ago. The Giants had trouble with Vernon Davis and the Pats had trouble with the big play from the Ravens late in the game when Arrington missed plays due to an eye injury. The giants have an offensive line similar to the Ravens and Wilfork can blow the center, and the Giants have a defensive line that will get more pressure (but not that much more) than the Ravens did.
Do the Giants have a secondary to take advantage of the miscues that might result from Brady feeling the pressure the same way the Ravens did? Will the Pats be able to collapse the pocket and pressure Eli into throws he shouldn’t make?
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:47 PM
I’d feel a lot more confident about picking the Giants to win if we could be assured that they’ll catch every break in the Super Bowl like they did in the NFC championship game.
Alas, at least a Giants victory will arouse a stirring debate about which is the worst team to ever win a Super Bowl: ’69 Jets, ’02 Pats or ’06 Steelers or ’12 Giants.
Giants 24-20.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:47 PM
Me-ow.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:48 PM
Giants 34
Patriots 31
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:48 PM
If anything I was enhancing the buzz..you can see Bibi get plowed in the butthole,,have bewb sex all that stuff without Gronk winning the MVP
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:48 PM
“BotTOM Bitch”
That’s all I got
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:49 PM
Pats 41
Giants 20
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:49 PM
Hey SC… I’m curious as to why you have such hatred for Eli…(don’t know the backstory) usually you’re pretty anti-boston… why the NY hate here?
Bad gambling beat?
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:50 PM
Can’t spell “stoma” without T-O-M.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:50 PM
Giants – 34
Pats – 24
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:50 PM
Eli makes at least 2-3 really bad throws a game. Whether the Pats win or not depends on if they can turn those into INTs.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:50 PM
Hello Strawman, whatcha knowin’? I can see your hyperbole flowin’
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:50 PM
Pats 31 NYG 28
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:50 PM
Another prediction — I’ll spend the commercial breaks either taking a piss or fixing a drink, not crowded around the TV like a doofus.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:51 PM
Would Patriotic Americans beat a Giant? You’re damn we would…we would bomb that big son of a bitch into non existence before he had a chance to explain where he came from and why he was here..because that is the American way people! So go ahead and pick the Giants to win on Sunday but just know logic is against you
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:51 PM
Gints – 32
Pants – 19
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:52 PM
He probably doesn’t know…
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:52 PM
Can’t spell “stoma” without T-O-M.
/high fives Jersey.
Stoma, stoma, stoma, stoma, stoma chameleon. Stolen from Spencer.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:53 PM
Patriots 38 Giants 17
Drunkenness I have + 7.5/10 today/tonight over 9.5
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:55 PM
I laughed
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:55 PM
Pats 27
Giants 21
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:55 PM
I hope Wilfork eats ELOLi
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:56 PM
Aye, once, while sailin’ round the Arctic Circle.
SHUT UP
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:57 PM
21.2 million viewers.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:57 PM
60
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:57 PM
I know people don’t want ELi to win because of the whole Peyton comparison. But if the Pats win, it’s going to be non-stop media blowjobs over Brady and the evil hoodie. Go Giants.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:58 PM
Giants 31
Patriots 24
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:58 PM
31-24 Gmen
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:58 PM
Peyton Manning to the Redskins
/Super Bowl stories are boring
//TBL
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:59 PM
and winner will be determined by difference between Giants prediction and actual score, squared, plus difference between Patriots prediction and actual score, squared, plus difference between the predicted and actual margin of victory, squared.
Ha!
“Math. Nobody said there would be math.”
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:59 PM
I hope Wilfork eats ELOLi
He’s a run stuffer, not a pass rusher. This is what happens when you have to watch juan Castillo as your DC.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:00 PM
I would almost certainly feel this way if the NFC opponent came from a division other than the one my favorite team competes in.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:00 PM
/cries
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:00 PM
Pats 37 Giants 34
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:01 PM
giants comfortably over the pats…two scores at least.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:01 PM
Giants 34
Patriots 13
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:02 PM
So everything will be business as usual? Go Pats. New Yorkers make me want to punch a puppy exhibit A at least if the Pats win we get more stuff from Tommy From Quinzee at KSK…we’ll get more stuff even if they lose but happy Tommy is better than sad tommy
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:03 PM
Always go against conventional wisdom. Everybody picks Giants in a barnburner, so I go:
Patriots 13
Giants 6
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:03 PM
he does pretty well in the pass rush by taking up two lineman
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:03 PM
I agree.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:03 PM
When was that taken?
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:04 PM
He can be both if you don’t block him correctly. Ask Tebow and Flacco. If he is not doubled he will E-Honda the shit out of the linemen.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:04 PM
any time within the last 40 years
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:04 PM
Prop bet: Someone other than Tom Brady will take an offensive snap (non-kicking) for the Patriots +175
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:05 PM
I could see a direct snap to Hernandez or Edelman
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:05 PM
Dude…low blow. I seemed to remember Wilfork destroying the Baltimore line. The Giants O-line is not nearly as solid as the Ravens was. Wilfork is going to end Eli’s life.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:06 PM
I like that. Hernandez or Edelman
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:07 PM
pats love the direct snap/fake bad snap to the RB when the LB’s are open in the middle of the field on short yardage/goal line situations.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:07 PM
Holy shit, CJ. Get out my head.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:08 PM
I want one Super Bowl to go into OT. That’s all I want.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:08 PM
Absolutely, they do that all the time. Woodhead too.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:08 PM
love the direct snap…only have to run it once per game, usually is just a variant on a stock play and the defense always has to account for it. brilliant.
belichick is the geniusest.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:09 PM
that’s who my money’s on.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:09 PM
if they run effective shotgun plays with the 2 TE 2WR 1RB formation, expect this in must have yardage situations.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:10 PM
Speaking of Hernandez, I was watching CSN Philly the other night and one of the dudes on Daily News Live called him Gonzalez and nobody corrected him. Yeah, ya know, whoever that mex1can dude is.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:10 PM
UConn head coach Jim Calhoun takes indefinite leave of absense, due to lower back issue. No timetable for coaching return to sidelines.
\in other news
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:11 PM
This was right before Dan Klecko referred to Nate “Soldier”
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:12 PM
Hey spence… are the Browns going to stick with shurmur? I didn’t seem to get the impression that he was safe…?
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:12 PM
UConn head coach Jim Calhoun takes indefinite leave of absense, due to lower back issue.
Translated: “My team’s play lately has been a pain in my butt”.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:13 PM
beats the shit out of me…frankly, id be shocked if they canned him. not because he might be ok, but because holmgren’s too busy sipping lattes in seattle to notice what’s going on with the organization he was put in charge of running.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:13 PM
Did it in SB 36 to Faulk for 2 point conversion.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:13 PM
UConn head coach Jim Calhoun takes indefinite leave of absense, due to lower back issue.
Ahh.. the old Coach K move.
/troll’d
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:14 PM
31-28 Pats.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:14 PM
and just the threat opens up their base plays in these situations…it’s genius.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:14 PM
It’s only a Coach K if he doesn’t get the losses put on his coaching record.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:15 PM
but because holmgren’s too busy sipping lattes in seattle to notice what’s going on with the organization he was put in charge of running.
condolences. Also, I meant no disrespect with my comments about cleveland girl… just being a dick. she’s actually a nice girl.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:16 PM
Patience…it’s a process
/wanking motion
/there better be improvement (8-8) next year or we’ll be calling for his head
/not that you asked me
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:16 PM
Giants 44 – Pats 23, MVP Victor Cruz, ratings 1.1 billion.0, post topic: statistically speaking Georgetown Hoyas basketball is awesome because…
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:17 PM
is this from today or awhile back? i don’t even remember…but if i got upset i was maw bleeding week or i was joking.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:20 PM
is this from today or awhile back? i don’t even remember…but if i got upset i was maw bleeding week or i was joking.
ha.. from awhile while back.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:21 PM
And K’s team wasn’t facing a tourney ban the next year for being a joke academically.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:23 PM
Giants 32
Pats 31
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:25 PM
No he just has his team take all their classes at Durham CC.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:26 PM
Dude…low blow.
Ah come on man, I’m just having some fun.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:27 PM
Just got my boxes…ugh.
NE 5, NYG 1
NE 1, NYG 3
NE 8, NYG 0
NE 4, NYG 9
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:27 PM
Yep. If you’re a big time college coach and cannot work the system to get your players right academically, you deserve all the sanctions you get.
Calhoun has been running as dirty of a program as Calipari for years and has gotten a free pass for it because of the Bristol proximity.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:29 PM
Steelers 47, Packers 3
/gmen 24-17
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:30 PM
You’re right, K is so much more clean, his linens are completely white.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:31 PM
Giants 23, Pats 16
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:32 PM
One of my coworkers here wore her Steelers shirt today and ate out of her Steelers lunchbox. I think she’s in denial.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:32 PM
Nope. Just keeps his shady stuff within the rules like Roy does.
When K starts browbeating his player to give up scholarships because they need to “work harder” so that he can give them to bigger recruits, I’ll think they’re comparable. Calhoun is filthy.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:33 PM
One of my coworkers here wore her Steelers shirt today and ate out of her Steelers lunchbox. I think she’s in denial.
Dirty Vag chick?
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:33 PM
no…she’s just in penisveinia.
February 3rd, 2012 at 2:44 PM
Giants 30
Patriots 24
Brady finishes with higher QB rating than Eli, but Eli wins the trophy.
February 3rd, 2012 at 3:01 PM
Patriots 24
Giants 23
February 3rd, 2012 at 3:10 PM
Every Brady/Belichick Super Bowl has been decided by 3 points.
Pats- 27
Giants- 24
February 3rd, 2012 at 3:31 PM
Pats 34
Giants 27
February 3rd, 2012 at 3:36 PM
oh, you gotta pick an actual score?
giants 31, pats 17.
February 3rd, 2012 at 3:39 PM
Pats 23
Gents 22
February 3rd, 2012 at 3:45 PM
Pats 48, Giants 17
February 3rd, 2012 at 4:07 PM
31-30 Gmen, Tynes from 38 as the clock expires
February 3rd, 2012 at 4:08 PM
Pats – 27
Giants – 17
SROD, what’s with the Nats logo? And you haven’t unretired have you?
February 3rd, 2012 at 4:10 PM
Giants 35
Pats 13
If I win, I want a profile piece humanizing giant great, Jason Seahorn.
February 3rd, 2012 at 4:12 PM
Pats 21
Giants 18
/zero confidence on that pick
February 3rd, 2012 at 4:12 PM
SROD, what’s with the Nats logo?4
He’s a Nats fan.
February 3rd, 2012 at 4:13 PM
Giants – 38
Pats – 27
February 3rd, 2012 at 4:34 PM
pats 42
giants 30
February 3rd, 2012 at 4:41 PM
Giants 34-21
February 3rd, 2012 at 4:44 PM
Gianta 31-28
February 3rd, 2012 at 4:47 PM
Patriots 32.25
Giants 26.75
February 5th, 2012 at 5:27 PM
Patriots- 38
Giants- 24
February 6th, 2012 at 8:19 AM
SROD, what’s with the Nats logo? And you haven’t unretired have you?
Vincent, ATL called it on the gravatar. And, no, I haven’t un-retired. Everybody here knows my status, so I took “retired” out. And, taking it out makes the acronym work.
OBTW – I can’t see the gravatar when I read my comments. Hmmn…