Pro Football Hall of Fame Picks: Big Willie, Dermontti, Curtis, Cortez & Tim Brown
The Pro Football Hall of Fame selectors will meet, as they always do, on the day before the Super Bowl and announce this year’s class on Saturday night. This is an important and diverse class of finalists. Only Will Shields is in his first year of eligibility, and there are no clear cult first-time eligible players, like Deion Sanders and Marshall Faulk last year, who will sweep in with nary a discussion. Next year, Warren Sapp, Johnathan Ogden, Michael Strahan, John Lynch and Larry Allen – all guys who will warrant discussion as finalists in their first years – become eligible.
Thus, the 2012 debates should be heated and diverse, as up to five of this year’s finalists should be selected and not getting in this year might mean waiting a few more.
The finalists can be divided into some groups, and you can bet their will be some debates within these tiers.
The Offensive Linemen: Willie Roaf, Dermontti Dawson, and Will Shields
Last year, when Willie Roaf did not make it, it set Jason Whitlock off. I also had Willie Roaf in my selections for last year, as well as Dermontti Dawson. Let’s be clear about all three of these guys–they are easily within the standards of what a Hall of Famer is. Willie Roaf is among the best tackles in the modern game. Dawson was an awesome center, and was selected as a first team all pro six different seasons, tied for most among eligible interior offensive linemen who are not in the Hall. Shields was selected to 12 pro bowls over his career (most among interior linemen not in the Hall) and along with Roaf, was part of the most dominant offensive line of the last decade.
The question is simply how many will be selected at one time, and in what order.
The Wide Receivers: Tim Brown, Cris Carter, and Andre Reed
Chase Stuart did a post about these three receivers two years ago, because they have now been on the ballot as a trio for three seasons. The actual Hall of Fame selectors have been the opposite of Stuart’s statistical look at the receivers, and Andre Reed has a lot of support, whether it’s because he’s been on the ballot longer, or because of more powerful lobbyist. Each of the last two years, Reed has lasted longer in voting than the other two and just come up short.
Tim Brown and Cris Carter seem like clear cut Hall of Fame choices, Reed’s case seems more borderline, but he has clear support where it matters. Last summer, I wrote about my frustration with the Hall of Fame selectors (and specifically Len Pasquarelli and Terrell Owens) when it came to receivers. They’ve thrown their hands up and can’t seem to make up their minds.
Let’s hope this year they start resolving that logjam, because guys like Harrison, Owens, Moss, and others that should at least garner some discussion, like Rod Smith, are coming.
The Pass Rushers: Chris Doleman, Kevin Greene, and Charles Haley
These three were all semifinalists a few years ago, so I wrote about all three collectively, comparing their careers. Charles Haley has been the one who has consistently been among the finalists, though as you can see, he has far fewer tackles and sacks than the other two. It’s a question of how much you credit Haley for playing on great teams with Jerry Rice and Joe Montana, or Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith, and Michael Irvin.
I have Doleman as a Hall of Famer, and Greene with a pretty solid case, whereas Haley is a No for me, though his role in championship teams certainly has garnered him some support. (In that post I did, I cite a poll done in the mid-90′s, where virtually no writers identified Haley as a Hall of Famer).
The issue here is how the selectors separate these three, and then whether any of them break through versus the other positions, because I don’t think any are a slam dunk relative to the other candidates. With Dent getting in last year, the committee may take a year off.
The Running Backs: Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis
Curtis Martin is 4th all-time in rushing yards; Jerome Bettis is 5th. They have similar rushing touchdown totals, and both were more workman-like than spectacular. I think they both get in. Unless Bettis being from Detroit and playing in a Super Bowl there (plus his continued presence on TV) matters more, Martin seems to have a similar case, but slightly better across the board. Both were good at a young age, and continued to be among the 5-10 best at their position for a decade. Martin was the more useful receiver, and averaged more yards per game. Martin also had the amazing season in 2004, at an age when many backs would have been in part-time roles, like Bettis was when he got his ring.
The Coaches & Owners: Eddie DeBartolo & Bill Parcells
I’m not a fan of pitting players against others who were “contributors” in the selection process. How do you compare someone who got to make money versus an actual player? For me, DeBartolo is a No, especially with so many qualified player candidates. Parcells will get in, I’m just not sure if it is this year. He is on the ballot for the first time since retiring from Dallas, but was on the ballot twice before after his Jets stint, before returning. Voters may want to wait a few years just to make sure Bill doesn’t resurface.
The Defensive Stars on Not-So-Great Teams: Cortez Kennedy and Aeneas Williams
Cortez Kennedy won a Defensive Player of the Year award while playing for a 2-14 team. Think about how amazing that is. He also made 8 pro bowls and 3 first team all pro selections. I thought he should have been a choice ahead of John Randle a few years ago, so of course I think he is in.
Aeneas Williams, like Kennedy, and perhaps even more, was cursed by being part of bad teams for his career (he did join St. Louis late in his career and played in the Super Bowl in 2001). Even when playing in relative anonymity in Arizona, he was selected to 8 pro bowls, was a first team all pro corner three times, and second team for two other seasons. He had two or more defensive touchdowns in five different seasons.
I think both Kennedy and Williams are clearly Hall of Famers, and join guys like Lee Roy Selmon (rest in peace) and Dick Butkus as shining despite their teammates. Williams finally made it through to the finalists this year, while Kennedy has been waiting.
CONCLUSION
My Personal Picks: I would take the maximum five, and I would start with Willie Roaf, who should have been a first ballot guy last year, plus Dermontti Dawson, who has been waiting too long. I would take Tim Brown first among the receivers, just pipping Cris Carter because as far as we know Brown recognizes that Calvin Johnson is really good. Curtis Martin would get in. For my final slot, I would take Cortez Kennedy.
Who I think the Hall of Fame actually selects: Willie Roaf. Andre Reed seems to have the most traction among the receivers. I think they take Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis. The last one could go to Dermontti Dawson, though I never want to pick what the committee will do with him.
[photo via Getty]

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127 Responses to “Pro Football Hall of Fame Picks: Big Willie, Dermontti, Curtis, Cortez & Tim Brown”
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February 3rd, 2012 at 11:23 AM
/team no Bus in the HOF
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:23 AM
I’ve known this for a while, yet it never ceases to amaze me.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:23 AM
Boomer Esiason or GTFO.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:24 AM
Fuck Andre Reed.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:24 AM
What a killer.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:25 AM
That was one of the dumbest things a WR-turned-analyst has ever said on ESPN.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:25 AM
What a trickster.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:26 AM
Agreed. NFL’s version of a stat compiler or does it just seem that way?
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:26 AM
This. Not to flame, but was Curtis Martin ever considered a top 5 back in the NFL?
He was terribly consistent. No flash whatsoever. There’s nothing wrong with that, I just find his career stats mind-boggling.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:27 AM
Cris Carter can go fuck himself.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:27 AM
dawson should be in already.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:27 AM
And just like that, the HILLARY2016 campaign strategy was developed.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:28 AM
I know you mean Phil here. Alas, we need to wait until the Legend retires…
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:28 AM
Peyton’s agent is being interviewed on NFL Network right now. But yeah, no one’s ‘forcing’ anyone to write any stories or talk about this.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:28 AM
Seconded.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:29 AM
Chris Spielman should get in. Great player and the speech will be amazing. That’s all that matters really.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:29 AM
we can bend the rules for thrill dawson.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:30 AM
seems that way because it is that way. Where’s Banders when you need him, he had a great take on Bettis.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:30 AM
We’ll be saying the same thing about Thomas Jones.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:30 AM
i feel like i should support cris carter because he was a buckeye, but he’s just such a fucking asshole…
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:31 AM
Cris Carter was kicked out of college for having mafia ties and had a massive cocaine addiction, yet he has the stones to talk about other players needing to control their personal issues. Fuck him. Shouldn’t be in the hall, should be in prison.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:31 AM
He couldn’t get his idiot son in line and is know sucking Nick Saban’s dick. Fuck Cris Carter.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:32 AM
Chris Spielman should get in. Great player and the speech will be amazing. That’s all that matters really.
Then Pacman Jones should get in
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:32 AM
All of this. Well said.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:33 AM
How Willie Roaf didn’t make it in his first year is beyond me. The man was a beast.
As for the others: Tim Brown, Chris Doleman, Aeneas Williams and Bill Parcells.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:33 AM
I agree with this, but that’s just the homer in me.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:33 AM
C’mon, man!
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:33 AM
Of course Cris Carter should be in the HoF though.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:34 AM
As for the others: Tim Brown, Chris Doleman, Aeneas Williams and Bill Parcells.Williams will probably never get in. That’s the price you pay for playing corner for the Cardinals.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:34 AM
When is Lorenzo Neal going to be eligible? He has to be in on the first vote.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:34 AM
No
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:35 AM
In highschool, we went to Orlando for a basketball tournamnet and Kevin Greene was at the ESPN Zone doing a Q&A of sorts before the days NFL games. I was, on a dare, asked if he was mad when Neil O’Donnel threw two picks in the super bowl — he feigned resentment at the question and freaked out on me, then he said 1 was Ernie Mills fault and one was his fault. he was also wearing this shirt.
http://www.theflagshirt.com/v/vspfiles/photos/Roper-302-SS-2T.jpg
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:35 AM
I’m a lifelong Viking fan and I have a Cris Carter jersey but that doesn’t make the dude any less of an asshole.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:36 AM
He’s HOF worthy, but not mount rushmore of NFL coach worthy.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:36 AM
This. Not to flame, but was Curtis Martin ever considered a top 5 back in the NFL?
considered? or was? because I can’t measure perception. He was top five in fantasy points four times (yards plus touchdowns) was top 5 in yards from scrimmage 4 times.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:36 AM
That’s disgusting
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:36 AM
FB’s get shafted even more than OG’s.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:37 AM
This. Not to flame, but was Curtis Martin ever considered a top 5 back in the NFL?
He was terribly consistent. No flash whatsoever. There’s nothing wrong with that, I just find his career stats mind-boggling.
We’ll be saying the same thing about Thomas Jones.
He’s the football equivalent of Rafael Palmeiro (without the steroids). Consistent but never dazzling
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:37 AM
Pine Bluff legend.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:37 AM
Will Shields: Legend.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:38 AM
We’ll be saying the same thing about Thomas Jones.
comparing Curtis Martin to Thomas Jones is ridiculous.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:38 AM
true.
you’re probably right, but he is HOF worthy, IMO.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:39 AM
Replace Carter with Hines Ward and Buckeye with Dawg and I feel exactly the same.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:39 AM
I agree with you on that.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:39 AM
I’m a lifelong Viking fan and I have a Cris Carter jersey but that doesn’t make the dude any less of an asshole.
Definitely an asshole, but it’s not as though there isn’t a collection of those already in every single Hall of Fame in existence.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:40 AM
I keep hearing about the Manning trade, and can’t figure out the logic
1. No way the 28 million is picked up
2. Manning is set for money, and only way he is kept long enough to be traded is if he re-does that contract, it’s going to be lower base/high incentive
3. Any FA contract he signs would be low base/high incentive anyway but he can pick his own team
Somehow people think he’s going to do Irsay a favor and let the Colts keep his trading rights, while he’s currently being run out of town, I just don’t see it. Play hardball, refuse to negotiate that $28 million, and sign with any team you want. Last think Manning should do it let Irsay trade him to a team with a crappy OL.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:41 AM
Yeah, even calling him a poor-man’s Martin does Curtis a disservice
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:41 AM
Fuck Bettis, Goddamned liquored up kickers.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:41 AM
/throws up the U
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:42 AM
Kevin Greene. Auburn legend. He came to Auburn’s spring football game a few years ago rocking jean shorts, white high tops, white socks rolled down, and a fanny pack. We’re talking like 2004. Stone cold killer.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:42 AM
i support this team.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:43 AM
Precedent has been set. Cris Carter is undoubtedly a Hall of Famer
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:43 AM
Will Shields and Willie Roaf would be one hell of a OL HOF class.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:43 AM
For some reason I never really saw it with Tim Brown, but he was often the one who would have been the ‘best in the league’ a bunch of years if it wasn’t for Rice.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:44 AM
You mean Lorenzo White? Will never forget his big feet helping to beat Pitt back in the day.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:44 AM
All I’m saying is that when Jones retires, we’ll look up 5 years later and say, “Holy shit, he’s top 20 all time in rushing!”.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:44 AM
Has he been voted in yet? Exactly, so there must be some doubt.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:45 AM
Kevin Greene was a Captain in the Army Reserve during his NFL career and served during the offseason. What a man.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:45 AM
I fumble this support, then get bailed out by my rookie CB.
/hey guys, did you hear he’s from Detroit? and the Superbowl was played in Detroit that year?
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:46 AM
*rookie QB
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:46 AM
i had no idea.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:47 AM
Roaf, Dawson, Brown, Martin and Parcells.
Rarely should owners get in. DeBartolo? Lessee, “I got some cash, bought a team, picked up some players that weren’t all highly regarded, watched them gel under a HOF coach, and mix thoroughly”. How does DeBartolo even get a sniff when Bill Walsh was the key to that team getting over the top?
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:47 AM
I’m listening to the Richard Deitsch podcast with TBL. Dude sounds like the whitest non-white person in the world. It’s cracking me up.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:47 AM
Kevin Greene was a Captain in the Army Reserve during his NFL career and served during the offseason. What a man.
Hooah.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:47 AM
Greg Lloyd > Kevin Greene
/10 year old me
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:47 AM
Ben wasn’t a rookie and Nick Harper couldn’t outrun him. Indy deserves to lose their franchise based on that second part.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:48 AM
Yeah. Bad one by me, since Ben’s rookie year was when his favorite playoff receiver was Ty Law.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:49 AM
Has he been voted in yet? Exactly, so there must be some doubt.
Oh please. You could say the same thing about Willie Roaf. He hasn’t been voted in yet, so there must be some doubt about him as well. That’s incredibly reductionist.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:49 AM
Well Nick Harper did have a knife in his leg, so I give him the benefit of the doubt.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:50 AM
+1 Natl Assn of Black Journalists membership
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:50 AM
The best rumor of all time is that a kid in a wheelchair asked for Kevin Greene’s autographs and he punted the football down a hill. I dont know if that is true or not, but it always makes me laugh.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:50 AM
I’m confused.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:50 AM
Greg Lloyd > Kevin Greene
/10 year old me
This interesting considering you thought I was a cooler commenter when you mistakenly thought I was black.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:50 AM
I picture you saying that very effeminitely (sp?). You have the vapors?
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:51 AM
I was a huge Anthony Carter fan. the Vikings gave him the shaft at the end of his career. I would have much rather had a #81 jersey.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:51 AM
greg lloyd is a badass in his own right…a horrible, unstable badass, but badass nonetheless.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:52 AM
Hero. Fucking handies get all the benefits.
I still cannot find video of when he gives the standing count to the QB he knocked out, the one time he said he regretted his behavior.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:52 AM
But that doesn’t fit in me hating on that douche Cris Carter.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:53 AM
Thats a good way to put it. Did he make a bunch of pop culture jokes like he did on Rome?
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:53 AM
It’s my understanding that TBL is not white. Am I wrong on that?
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:53 AM
Am I the only one who thinks this is actually ATL_Badger still?
/control+F for “ATL_Badger”
//hah, proof!
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:53 AM
Kevin Greene had 32 more sacks than Rickey Jackson and played the same number of seasons. He also had 28 more than LT.
The only players with more are White and Smith.
/stats!
//but still
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:54 AM
was he seen as being an asshole before he got on TV? I don’t recall him being one or being called one while he was in the league.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:54 AM
I picture you saying that very effeminitely (sp?). You have the vapors?
I did, but fortunately I have a fainting couch in my office.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:54 AM
He’s mixed Carribean or something I think. You’d have to ask Bulldog.
But he is or was a member of the NABJ, it was on his website resume.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:55 AM
I really didn’t think I had to add “in my opinion” to the end of that, I kinda figured people would pick up on that. But fine, make a case for why he shouldn’t be in. Maybe I’m undervaluing the importance of receiving yards, and overvaluing touchdowns; even then though I don’t think there’s a resolutely firm argument that he doesn’t belong.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:55 AM
But that doesn’t fit in me hating on that douche Cris Carter.
Fair enough. I certainly won’t try to take that away from you.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:55 AM
Deitsch says “umm” a lot. It’s a bit annoying.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:55 AM
I’m pretty sure the mother of the kid wrote a letter to the editor in the PG about the supposed incident.
When I was in 5th grade, Kevin Greene once showed up to watch an Omnimax movie at the Science Center and bounced before the standard introductions finished because everyone was trying to talk to him.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:55 AM
This seems so out of character for a Steelers LB/DE.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:56 AM
… the only reason he was a Viking is the Eagles cut him because he was a junkie
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:56 AM
I thought he was east Indian this whole time.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:56 AM
Rumor I just heard from a buddy from work is that Sanchize is dating Kim Kardashian. Hey maybe if he concerned himself with practicing football and not banging whores, he might be a top 12 QB.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:56 AM
Nope. It’s all about TBLs piece on Cowherd
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:56 AM
I thought he was east Indian this whole time.
JMac, if I recall, is of West Indian/Caribbean ancestry.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:58 AM
What the fuck are you talking about? When he retired he was third all-time in receptions and yards. He also went over the middle and ran after the catch as good or better than anyone, including Rice.
Lynn Swann and John Stallworth are in the Hall of Fame. Reed has more catches than both of them combined.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:59 AM
So he’s probably a lot older than he claims to be.
February 3rd, 2012 at 11:59 AM
Unless you work for the Jets, I’m not holding much stock in this.
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:00 PM
Wow, I really have an entirely different outlook on him if he’s part black. Some of the things he’s said that I thought were in irony may not have been.
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:00 PM
It’s on With Leather already, that’s where his buddy “heard” it.
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:00 PM
What the fuck are you talking about? When he retired he was third all-time in receptions and yards. He also went over the middle and ran after the catch as good or better than anyone, including Rice.
I don’t like Andre Reed. Therefore ‘Fuck Andre Reed’. Seems fairly self-explanatory to me.
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:00 PM
Three wrongs don’t make a right. Three lefts do.
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:01 PM
?
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:02 PM
He told me about it…I’m assuming thats where he read it. Didn’t know, moving along, just wanted a chance to make fun of Fraudchez.
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:02 PM
He also went over the middle and ran after the catch as good or better than anyone, including Rice.
This is so false.
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:02 PM
They really need to take Lynn Swann out of the Hall.
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:02 PM
That’s because his shoes were on fire.
/pours one out for left eye
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:03 PM
There are 413 article hits in the last day for Sanchez and Kardashian dating, this isn’t breaking news.
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:03 PM
It’s a joke that Roaf wasn’t put in last year.
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:03 PM
I for one cannot wait for the post on it this afternoon, we’re going to have fun.
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:03 PM
You do realize that Andre Reed and Andre Rison aren’t the same person, right?
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:04 PM
My exact thoughts on Cris Carter.
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:04 PM
Let’s not forget about Kevin Greene’s career on Nitro
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:06 PM
Its only because Tebow turned that whore down
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:06 PM
Andre Rison, FLINTTOWN!!!!!!!!!! He’s now the head coach at his alma mater, Flint Northwestern HS.
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:07 PM
Correct.
It’s well known that Buddy Ryan traded Carter out of Philly because Carter had a drug problem.
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:08 PM
Hahaha, miserable fail. Is it happy hour yet?
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:08 PM
Or maybe it wasn’t a trade.
Either way, the drug part is not new news.
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:08 PM
Yeah, when Belichick had their plays figured out before Ben even called them in the huddle. It was like Tecmo Bowl when your opponent called your play.
/that’s my story and I’m sticking to it
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:12 PM
yeah but having a drug problem doesn’t necessarily make him an asshole. he’s an asshole now that he is on tv but that doesn’t mean he is still on smack.
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:13 PM
Yeah they cut him. Carter says Ryan saved his life.
Carter was basically worse than any problem case player in the draft in the last twenty years but gets a pass because he worked in the NFL media.
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:14 PM
Yeah it’s a bit unfair but I think he was an asshole for being so willing to throw it all away.
Better example would be how he secretly signed a contract with Norby when he was in college, knowing it was against the rules to do so. He willingly had mob ties.
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:39 PM
Carter put in much (most of his work) work after the drug issues, so to hang on to that as if it was a problem throughout his career is being misinformed. I don’t care what numbers Kevin Greene compiled, Charles Haley was better and his work was more relevant. Parcells, Bus, Haley, Roaf, Carter
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:41 PM
As time passes by, I am more and more impressed by the “workhorse” RB’s. I don’t see teams going back to the days of 300+ carry RB’s and this only benefits guys like Bettis and Martin
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:01 PM
I read it as you were saying Dietsch wasn’t white. hence the confusion.
February 3rd, 2012 at 1:19 PM
Roaf, Dawson, Shields, Greene and Cortez
February 3rd, 2012 at 3:34 PM
Here’s a start: Take away Namath’s spot and give it to any one of these more deserving guys.
Except Kevin Greene. He’s an asshat.