Buford was talking about tipping points and, of a sort, phase transitions. Watching rabble roll a car downtown makes me wonder if any of what followed would have been possible if the police had stopped that particular group from getting too smash-happy at the outset.

Very true – the issue of where the cops step in is in particular a sore spot with Vancouverites. But what the police in the UK learned is that they had to better understand why these riots were taking place, and why those tipping points (an important concept, I agree) were happening, and that led to more socio-cultural analysis (and confiscating passports!). To me Buford glosses right over this and discusses the sensational part of it (I remember the eyeball sucking story; only thing I fully remember about the book!). Plus, he is never more than an observer, and it shows in his attempts to describe what he’s seen. He never fully immerses himself in it.

To go back to Hornby, he discusses this type of thing in relation to the two major soccer disasters – Heysel and Hillsborough – and why it came to that. It’s pretty interesting and provides far more insight.

I could go on (it’s an intriguing topic) but I’ve probably written too much about it here already!

We’re not authoring a study of sports riots here, so much as simply discussing them. But I am interested to hear what makes Thugs “ridiculously bad” for either pursuit

Study might be the wrong word, but my point is towards using it as the basis for discussing how a sports riot escalates. Especially the one in Vancouver, where the background was much different than the hooliganism you see in Europe.

In terms of Among the Thugs, my criticism (without being too academic) of it is based on the fact it is quite sensationalistic, and in many places inaccurate, and yet seems to be the ‘default’ book for soccer hooliganism. It feeds stereotypes rather than trying to understand them. It does have some merit (though I personally did not like it), but I’ve had the opportunity to discuss it with people from Manchester (Mancunians?) who say what he describes is – from a logistic standpoint even – pretty impossible. His explanations – in their minds at least – don’t add up, nor do they really explore any socio-cultural background or context. Maybe ‘ridiculously bad’ is a bit harsh, but its usefulness in understanding sport culture is very limited in my mind.

To me, Fever Pitch is much better at getting into the minds of English – and European – football fans and why they turn to violence. In my teaching days this is the one I would use with students.

Among the Thugs is a ridiculously bad book to use as the basis of any study of sports riots.

We’re not authoring a study of sports riots here, so much as simply discussing them. But I am interested to hear what makes Thugs “ridiculously bad” for either pursuit.

There has been an outcry to speed the process up in terms of charging people, and this is another step.

I really liked reading the apologies on the boarded up storefronts from Canucks fans who had nothing to do with it. It was weirdly touching. Think I’ll rock my ‘I Love Vancouver’ police fund shirt tomorrow.

A lot of it was actually completely unrelated to the hockey, there were lots of disillusioned young jackasses who just wanted an excuse to fuck stuff up.

Exactly. And I don’t think the public is too unhappy with these pictures being released. There has been an outcry to speed the process up in terms of charging people, and this is another step.

And Among the Thugs is a ridiculously bad book to use as the basis of any study of sports riots.

Rioting or not, the Vancouver police now have photos of thousands of sports fans.

So they’ve already got the Marlins beat…

Yep.

That headline is wrong. The newspapers did both.