A Thought About Carolina: What 2008 and 2009 Tell Us About 2011
The Carolina Panthers fell apart last year after a decade of ranging from average to very good under John Fox, including two championship game appearances and another 12-4 season just two years earlier. Their collapse made me wonder: does it matter how a team did in the two years prior to a horrible season, in determining how they bounce back?
So, I used the pro-football-reference team game finder to locate all teams that went 3-13 or worse in a season since 1990. I kicked out the first two years of the expansion Cleveland Browns, and looked at the remaining 41 teams to compare how they played (by simple rating) and how many wins they had in the two seasons prior to that 13+ loss season.
As it turns out, yes, knowing that the Carolina Panthers went 20-12 over the previous two seasons means we should shade them to be slightly better than your typical really bad team in 2011. First, though, we want to know what is typical. As it turns out, the average team that won 3 or fewer games in a season finishes 6-10 the next year (which is just another way of illustrating why Overs on teams with win projections under 6 are a good idea).
Focusing only on teams that won at least half their games in the two years before the collapse, those previous winning teams won 6.2 games the next season–slightly better than the average. However, if we look at point differentials rather than just win totals, it improves further. Teams that were above the league average the previous two seasons (as Carolina was at +4.7 points over average in 2008-2009) won 6.6 games the next season.
However, Carolina didn’t just have an unlucky season in losing a bunch of close games–they were really bad and according to the simple rating system, were -13.2 points below the league average in 2010. That sizeable collapse from being above average to that far below is the largest such collapse since 1990. Here are the five other teams with similar dramatic dropoffs:
- 1990 Cleveland- went from a playoff team the previous two years to 3-13 (-13.0 points below average). In Bill Belichick’s first year, they bounced back to 6-10, and near league average.
- 2004 San Francisco- The 49ers had won 17 games the previous two years, but were dismantled due to salary cap reasons. They fell to 2-14 (-13.6 points below average) and the following year hired Mike Nolan and drafted Alex Smith and didn’t get much better, going 4-12.
- 1991 Indianapolis- The Colts had been roughly average the previous two years, going 15-17. They were horrible, going 1-15 (-17.3 points below average). They fired Ron Meyer, brought in Ted Marchibroda, and bounced back to a somewhat fluky 9-7 season (still -7.0 points below average).
- 1994 Houston- Houston let Warren Moon go after winning 22 games the previous two years (the only team that won more games than Carolina the two seasons before dropping to 3-13 or worse), and as mentioned in the Minnesota Vikings post, went with Cody Carlson, Billy Joe Tolliver and Bucky Richardson at quarterback. They went 2-14, fired Jack Pardee, and retained interim coach Jeff Fisher. The next year, they went 7-9.
- 2001 Buffalo- After winning 19 games in two seasons, the Bills fired Wade Phillips, hired Gregg Williams, and dropped to 3-13. The next year, they traded for Drew Bledsoe and went 8-8.
Those five teams won 6.8 games the next year. Carolina, by the way, is going off the board at 4.5 wins this year. I think they’ll go 6-10 against what appears to be a tough but manageable schedule, though doing a little better than that with a late run as the team improves wouldn’t surprise me. It’s really, really hard to have a season where you lose 13 games or more in this league, usually resulting from a perfect storm of things, such as really bad luck, serious injuries, or hiring Matt Millen. Doing it two years in a row–not likely.
Cam Newton will be inconsistent as a rookie, but will be an upgrade over what the passing game did last year because, well, as Kim McQuilken is my witness, it can’t possibly be worse. The offense also played without RT Jeff Otah all year, a run blocking tackle who was key to the outstanding rushing game from the previous two years. DeAngelo Williams was hurt, and the team had no quality receiving options behind Steve Smith. They’ve added Legedu Naanee at receiver from San Diego, and both Jeremy Shockey and Greg Olsen at tight end, to a position that has been a hole in the passing game in Carolina for years. Those aren’t wow moves, but upgrade the positions.
Defense wasn’t the issue for the most part last year; the offense put them in such horrible positions by being inept. The linebacking corp is actually a strength, led by Jonathan Beason. The middle of the offensive line is still a liability, but I think they can overcome that with Newton’s mobility threatening and opening running lanes for the backs. Last year was a perfect storm in Carolina, and though I wasn’t a big fan of the DeAngelo Williams re-signing at the price as a long term move for the franchise, in the short term, having a happier Steve Smith and the Williams/Stewart combo to go with more complementary receivers will be a positive.
Enough shadows of 2008 and 2009 still exist in Charlotte to think this team can bounce back quickly in 2011 and become at least competitive.
NFL PREVIEW: Cincinnati Bengals
NFL PREVIEW: Jacksonville Bengals
NFL PREVIEW: Cleveland Browns
NFL PREVIEW: New York Giants
NFL PREVIEW: Minnesota Vikings
NFL PREVIEW: Arizona Cardinals
[photo via Getty]

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90 Responses to “A Thought About Carolina: What 2008 and 2009 Tell Us About 2011”
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August 17th, 2011 at 2:27 PM
yay! a Lions post.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:30 PM
Who was the qb of the Houston team the year Fischer took over? Was it McNair? Or did they sit him as a rookie? I want to say Chris Chandler was the starter before they handed Air McNair the reins
August 17th, 2011 at 2:30 PM
/looks for the real killer
August 17th, 2011 at 2:31 PM
Woah, when did all those other previews get posted? On the weekend and at night I presume? Hope I dont miss your Pats post.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:31 PM
Who was the qb of the Houston team the year Fischer took over? Was it McNair? Or did they sit him as a rookie? I want to say Chris Chandler was the starter before they handed Air McNair the reins
Yes, they brought in Chandler, who had been good but injury prone. They traded him to Atlanta once McNair was ready.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:32 PM
I didn’t know that the Vikings post was actually a Vikings “Season” post.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:32 PM
Woah, when did all those other previews get posted? On the weekend and at night I presume? Hope I dont miss your Pats post.
I’m going to try to do them all over the next 3 weeks, before moving to division predictions, so I’ve got to post them at all times. The Pats post will simply be an homage to Tommy’s dancing.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:34 PM
As long as you dont include any link to baby penis
August 17th, 2011 at 2:34 PM
I didn’t know that the Vikings post was actually a Vikings “Season” post.
Well, I’m doing different things with each one, so they aren’t strictly season previews.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:35 PM
Well, I’m doing different things with each one, so they aren’t strictly season previews.
Got it.
/Bumps Lisk up a notch
August 17th, 2011 at 2:36 PM
Tom Brady’s a pussy.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:38 PM
they’ve been going up randomly, but as Lisk said, they aren’t really previews. you can find those anywhere. So he’s finding interesting stuff to pull out. You won’t find his interesting shit elsewhere.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:38 PM
i predict a monster year from rae carruth.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:39 PM
Six wins are possible, but it looks like have the hardest schedule.
/waits for Lisk to tell me that strength of schedule is not a good indicator of future success
August 17th, 2011 at 2:44 PM
/waits for Lisk to tell me that strength of schedule is not a good indicator of future success
Taking into account past schedule strength is important. For example, knowing that the Browns or Bills played a much tougher schedule than the Cardinals last year.
Future? some, though far less predictable, especially if you just go by wins, rather than points or second order adjustment of schedule strength. For example, Carolina’s schedule appears tough because the division opponents all had 10 wins last year, including 6 over them, but those were bolstered by weak schedules (NFC West).
August 17th, 2011 at 2:45 PM
i’d actually be interested in the correlation coefficient between the preseason “strength of schedule” numbers and the actual end of season strengths of schedule.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:46 PM
Well, I’m doing different things with each one, so they aren’t strictly season previews.
It’s still better than anything we’re liable to get from the EIC.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:47 PM
we’ll get an awesome Jets preview. no doubt about that. a guest post from Fireman Ed would be nice as well.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:48 PM
i’d actually be interested in the correlation coefficient between the preseason “strength of schedule” numbers and the actual end of season strengths of schedule.
I know someone has written about this, I just need to search my memory banks and find it.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:49 PM
would you be ok with some guest picks from Artie Lang? I have a feeling that can be arranged.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:49 PM
impossible because he’s illiterate. it took him weeks, nay, months to learn how to spell jets.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:49 PM
Like when the Dolphins went from 1-15 to 11-5, the Pats SOS improved dramatically post-season compared to pre-season
August 17th, 2011 at 2:51 PM
would you be ok with some guest picks from Artie Lang? I have a feeling that can be arranged.
/knife joke
August 17th, 2011 at 2:52 PM
a guest post from Fireman Ed would be nice as well.
I’d prefer a paparazzi shot of Sterger’s titties.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:53 PM
even after they’ve been…uh…not sure the medical term here…dehanced?
August 17th, 2011 at 2:54 PM
even after they’ve been…uh…not sure the medical term here…dehanced?
I’m not picky when it comes to boobs. Although, I was unaware they’d been deflated.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:55 PM
did you never see her playboy spread? I believe that was pre-dehancement.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:55 PM
I’m not picky when it comes to boobs.
This is an interesting declaration considering previous comments about the quality of women you pick up.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:55 PM
Dehancement leads to defamation.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:56 PM
You do know that she posed in Playboy pre-deflation, right?
August 17th, 2011 at 2:57 PM
This is an interesting declaration considering previous comments about the quality of women you pick up.
Never been a boob guy. You can go back and check. My stance on this hasn’t wavered since day 1.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:57 PM
i have a feeling you might be if you saw the shrivel-y ripples that’re the tell tale sign of a past-its-vintage boob job.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:58 PM
You do know that she posed in Playboy pre-deflation, right?
I don’t subscribe to Playboy. Too fake-y. Also, why pay for what you can have for free?
/opens new tab in stealth browser
August 17th, 2011 at 2:58 PM
As was I…why would you make that choice to get rid of the extra fun?
August 17th, 2011 at 2:58 PM
for real. now that I think about it, the unprovoked bashing of jenn brown will not stand. she is on the same level, if not hotter than jenn sterger. and I will personally guarantee she isn’t as worn out.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:58 PM
perhaps she wanted to breast feed.
i mean, it’s possible, right?
August 17th, 2011 at 2:59 PM
Okay, found something, it’s five years old. but I’m confident the numbers are still pretty similar.
He broke down how teams did the previous year record wise, whether they had a below average or above average expected schedule based on previous years wins for the opponent, and how many wins the next year.
No relationship. As CJ pointed out with the Miami example, all it takes is for a team or 2 on the schedule to surprise or disappoint and it swings.
“Note that I’m not saying that schedule strength isn’t important. Some teams will have harder schedules than others in 2006 and it will make a difference. The point is that these strength-of-schedule estimates that are being thrown around right now seem to have no role at all in determining teams’ 2006 records.”
August 17th, 2011 at 2:59 PM
previous comments about the quality of women you pick up
Hey… stop putting words in my mouth. There’s a big difference between never having gone hoggin’ and picking up 10′s every weekend. I claimed to never have to done the former, not the latter.
August 17th, 2011 at 2:59 PM
/gynobadger’d
//looks at medical charts during 30-minute poop
August 17th, 2011 at 3:00 PM
Back pain? Sleeping issues?
Unwanted attention?Effected her golf swing?August 17th, 2011 at 3:00 PM
Only thing today that has made me laugh. Thanks spence.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:00 PM
hoggin’ makes you appreciate a fine meal more. the only people who complain about food at 5-star restaurants are people who frequently go to 5-star restaurants, ya hurd?
August 17th, 2011 at 3:01 PM
for real. now that I think about it, the unprovoked bashing of jenn brown will not stand. she is on the same level, if not hotter than jenn sterger. and I will personally guarantee she isn’t as worn out
I’ve never had a negative thing about Jenn Brown. You realize my meme is a complete exaggeration, right? The only person I’ve really had a negative thing to say looks-wise is Casey Anthony.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:01 PM
Never been a boob guy. You can go back and check. My stance on this hasn’t wavered since day 1.
Fair enough.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:01 PM
The Tao of Spence.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:02 PM
anytime cleet…many condolences on your program’s misfortune. may nevin shaprio’s prison rape be long, painful and of the group varietal.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:02 PM
Wasn’t it because she wanted to be a “Serious Journalist”
August 17th, 2011 at 3:02 PM
September 17 should be an incredible shitshow. I can’t wait.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:02 PM
The only person I’ve really had a negative thing to say looks-wise is Casey Anthony.
But how do you feel about Caylee Anthony?
/sorry, had to
//nods at stark
August 17th, 2011 at 3:02 PM
/gong rips
August 17th, 2011 at 3:03 PM
needs more lack of vasoline.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:03 PM
the only people who complain about food at 5-star restaurants are people who frequently go to 5-star restaurants, ya hurd?
to use your analogy… while I never eat at fast food restaurants or Red Lobster, I don’t “frequent” 5 star restaurants either. Which makes the rare occasion when I do get a nice filet even better.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:04 PM
oh I know, I just thought I had heard a snide five-head comment or two from you.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:05 PM
oh I know, I just thought I had heard a snide five-head comment or two from you.
Nope, I was the one who first called out those on here who used that as some sort of negative.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:06 PM
Considering the U’s reputation for being thug-friendly, I’m sure they’re heavily represented on the inside. He’s going to have lots and lots of new friends.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:06 PM
THE PROBATION BOWL.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:07 PM
see, that’s your problem…you don’t bang a fattie, you get head from them just like you don’t order a meal at red lobster, you just get the cheddar bay biscuits.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:08 PM
Time for Nevin to pick a favorite syrup flavor.
/tossed salad man
August 17th, 2011 at 3:08 PM
the Engager meme?
/waits for engagement
August 17th, 2011 at 3:09 PM
Thanks
August 17th, 2011 at 3:15 PM
So I’ve never heard of Andrea Garcia, but I’d like to get to know more about her.
NSFW
August 17th, 2011 at 3:15 PM
Alternatively, you could order a meal at Red Lobster, but just don’t let anyone you know see you ordering that meal.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:17 PM
during you need a bib and afterwards you feel embarrassed and sluggish.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:17 PM
I agree with what others have said, if you have a diet full of 10s, then you’re not going to want to have a 6. However if you have a variety from 4-7, you’ll appreciate the 8s, 9s and 10s more.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:17 PM
Thats some grade A turf I would like to get a run on.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:19 PM
Daaaaaammmmmnnnn
August 17th, 2011 at 3:24 PM
she missed a spot.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:28 PM
the only people who complain about food at 5-star restaurants are people who frequently go to 5-star restaurants, ya hurd?
My denial for The U thing is wearing out. Waht’s the next step in dealing with loss? I know denial and acceptance and the rest is hazy. I still have the ability to pick nits with this statement, though. Most people couldn’t for the life of them explain what makes a 5-star restaurant worthwhile and there are hoards of mouthbreathers that will talk about Providence here in L.A. or The French Laundry up in Napa and complain about how much fucking $$$ they had to spend while spouting off some bullshit about how they could have done that themselves. I have a lot of anger right now, I’m not sure where to place it.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:30 PM
i have nits to pick with what you think that statement was referring to. i was talking about banging fat chicks here…not miami.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:31 PM
Anger and bargaining followed by depression, so first call into a sports talk radio show, then get some bribin’ money collected and then watch a Louie marathon so you can at least enjoy the sadness
August 17th, 2011 at 3:33 PM
i was talking about banging fat chicks here…not miami.
I was just taking it at face value. I, unlike ATL_Badger, have pretty decent knowledge of 5-star restaurants, at least in Vegas and L.A., and I also have banged fat chicks.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:35 PM
If you’re a drinking man, I would think that fits in somewhere.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:36 PM
What’s your threshold for “fat?”
I’m picturing beached whales here. I didn’t think that many people were that desperate to bust a nut. I guess I was wrong.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:36 PM
black truffles get panties wet, son…science.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:36 PM
also…the next step in dealing with loss is golf. lots of golf.
/trust me on this one
August 17th, 2011 at 3:37 PM
Anger then depression. Check. I’ll get through the whole checklist by the end of the day! Then every day until the sanctions are announced, I’ll go through em again. I’m just looking forward to the Navy vs. Louisiana Tech National Championship game after 110 other I-A schools have been ruled ineligible for the postseason
August 17th, 2011 at 3:38 PM
I didn’t think that many people were that desperate to bust a nut.
Days are long, some of them end better than others
August 17th, 2011 at 3:38 PM
It’s important that each knows his own threshold for fat.
My threshold was at “needs to mix in a few salads and start going to the gym”.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:41 PM
depends on the fat distribution metrics.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:43 PM
Yeah, that dude is one piece of shit rat. Everyone understood that everyone else was being used, you were there, you got your part of the deal. Shut your face, it wasnt Miami’s fault you went to jail shithead.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:50 PM
I’m just looking forward to the Navy vs. Louisiana Tech National Championship game after 110 other I-A schools have been ruled ineligible for the postseason
If you think Louisiana Tech is clean, then you’ve not spent enough time in Louisiana.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:51 PM
TERRY BRADSHAW WAS PAID IN ENTOUFFEE.
August 17th, 2011 at 3:54 PM
So Navy wins? Go Middies!
August 17th, 2011 at 3:58 PM
i just wanna know what made army and air force ineligible.
August 17th, 2011 at 4:05 PM
Never done a fat chick, but the wife is on course to afford me the opportunity in the not too distant future.
August 17th, 2011 at 4:07 PM
ENTOUFFEE.
You spell good.
i just wanna know what made army and air force ineligible.
Their celebrations for the end of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” got a little out of hand.
August 17th, 2011 at 4:16 PM
i just wanna know what made army and air force ineligible.
Didn’t make it to 6 wins
August 17th, 2011 at 4:20 PM
oh that’s fantastic.
August 17th, 2011 at 4:58 PM
what level of fat? there are various stages…
August 17th, 2011 at 6:18 PM
what level of fat? there are various stages
Actually not bad. She was always on the thin side anyway so after 3 kids, she’s actually in a better place.