Steve Kerr: LeBron James is More Scottie Pippen Than Michael Jordan
Steve Kerr is a fantastic basketball analyst, and his pairing with Marv Albert on TNT and CBS (NCAA Tournament) was a stroke of genius. Kerr’s 3-year run as GM of the Phoenix Suns was decidedly less impressive – trading for Shaq was a bust and trading for Jason Richardson got them nowhere; his drafts in 2007, 2008 and 2009 were all quite bad (if I were grading them today, he’d get a D-). At any rate, Kerr joined the knee-jerk media yesterday when he went on the “Waddle and Silvy” radio show in Chicago and said that LeBron’s more Scottie Pippen than Michael Jordan.
“The irony to me is that LeBron is not Michael. LeBron is actually Scottie. He’s so similar to Scottie in that defensively he was just a monster, could guard anybody, really more of a point forward than scoring guard. Scottie always loved to distribute the ball. That’s really where LeBron’s preference is.
That’s just not true. In the NBA Finals, yes, that’s what we saw from a strangely passive and skittish LeBron. But if you look at the two previous series (and his career in Cleveland – basically, his career body of work), LeBron was the closer who wanted the last shot. Have we all forgotten how the media went berserk after his awesome series against Chicago with the “LeBron-as-Jordan” stuff? Anyway, here’s more from Kerr:
“Phil Jackson used to call Scottie a ‘sometimes shooter.’ Sometimes they would go in, sometimes they wouldn’t. That’s how it is with LeBron. He’s a great talent and a great player but you can see his flaws as a basketball player. He doesn’t have an offensive game that he can rely on: no low-post game, no mid-range jump shot so when the game really gets tough he has a hard time finding easy baskets and getting himself going. That’s what Michael did in his sleep so that’s why the comparison is wrong.”
Again – it was LeBron’s first year in Miami. He was playing for a new coach (an inexperienced one, at that). He was playing on Dwyane Wade’s team, in Dwyane Wade’s city. Then again, if he hadn’t talked about winning eight titles after arriving in South Beach, maybe everyone would have given him a pass on not winning a title in his first year in Miami.
Still, according to hoop data (assuming I’m reading these stats correctly) LeBron shot the mid-range jumper (10-15 feet) this year better than he had in his career (44%). Ditto his jumper from 16-23 feet (45%).
As a point of reference: Kobe from 10-15 feet: 51%; from 16-23 feeet: 38 %.
Kevin Durant from 10-15 feet: 46%; from 16-23 feet: 40%.
Carmelo Anthony from 10-15 feet: 36%; from 16-23 feet: 40%.
To say LeBron has “no mid-range jump shot” is a fallacy; I would agree that his low-post game needs work. Then again, we’ve seen so little of LeBron in the post, maybe it doesn’t need work so much as it needs opportunities.
But the knee-jerk reaction in the span of two weeks on LeBron has been mind-boggling – can one really go from Jordan to Pippen in the span of a month. Bill Simmons floated the idea that LeBron’s downfall began when D Wade yelled at him in game three for being passive; I maintain that the reason LeBron was passive in game three was because of the game two collapse and his fear of failing again.
Yes, this post will be resurrected next year when the Heat win the title (assuming there’s a season).

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174 Responses to “Steve Kerr: LeBron James is More Scottie Pippen Than Michael Jordan”
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June 14th, 2011 at 11:14 AM
i still think that lebron had too much pressure on his shoulders (his own doing) and started thinking instead of just playing.
and i think it’s dumb to write off a guy that talented who’s only 26.
he’ll grow from this…on and off the court.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:16 AM
I’m glad this is still a topic of conversation.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:16 AM
I think Kerr is dead on. The problem is people have a gut reaction to being called Scottie Pippen because he was seen as Jordan’s Robin. The reality is that Pippen is a top 40 player of all time. He just happened to play alongside the best player of all time. Being compared to Pippen is a compliment.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:17 AM
Interesting… an original thought I haven’t heard mentioned before. So, Steve, you are insinuating that LeBron is some sort of sidekick? With all these internets floating around, you’d think someone would have suggested this before…
/not gonna read the article
June 14th, 2011 at 11:17 AM
A little bit of revisionist history there, TBL.
He took over when they had luxury tax problems. He was handcuffed from the start yet by his third year he built a team that went to the WCF and lost in six games to the Lakers, who went on to win the title.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:17 AM
Then again, we’ve seen so little of LeBron in the post, maybe it doesn’t need work so much as it needs opportunities.
This is a chicken/egg problem. He NEEDS to be in the post b\c he is such an athletic freak.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:17 AM
So him not having a mid range game or a post game is the fault of playing on a new team with a young coach? That makes perfect sense.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:18 AM
can one really go from Jordan to Pippen in the span of a month.
Yes. If one was never really Jordan in the first place.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:18 AM
Pippen played on Jordan’s team, in Jordan’s city. The resemblance is uncanny.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:18 AM
Yet people act like LeBron was the one saying he was better than MJ.
People keep saying he doesnt work on his game, which is absolutely untrue. FG% has gotten better every year. FT’s, % wise only marginally better, but its vastly improved. You already showed how his midrange has improved.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:18 AM
The reality is that Pippen is a top 40 player of all time. He just happened to play alongside the best player of all time. Being compared to Pippen is a compliment.
This. How is this a bad thing?
June 14th, 2011 at 11:19 AM
That hurts the narrative, dammit!
June 14th, 2011 at 11:20 AM
The overreaction is getting ridiculous. When Kobe was LeBron’s age, he was coming off a HORRIBLE finals against a star-less Pistons squad that embarrassed the Lakers, on top of that he had a rape trial hanging over his head as well as the dismantling of his team (Shaq trade, Phil quitting). Perspective.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:21 AM
His point about Kerr being a subpar GM was pointless and inaccurate. I can deal with the pointless (we get that a lot here), but the inaccurate is unfair to Kerr. He wasn’t great, but he wasn’t as turrible as TBL briefly made him out to be.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:21 AM
Oh sure, when I’ve been calling LeBron Super Pippen for weeks it barely gets noticed but Steve Kerr says it and it’s worthy of a post
You cut me deep TBL, cut me deep
June 14th, 2011 at 11:22 AM
Except Pippen wasnt better than Jordan.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:22 AM
more the fault of him being able to drop 25 a night without those things in the regular season.
i do not understand this “HE’S GOTTA BE IN THE POST” stuff at all…he’s so much more dangerous with a head of steam and when he’s in the lane, there’s seemingly 3 shooters open at all times. he’s gotta have a few moves, but i don’t think a refined post game would’ve helped him against the mavs…you gotta want to shoot and lebron didn’t no matter where he was on the floor.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:22 AM
S when are we getting the next BCS article?
June 14th, 2011 at 11:24 AM
The basketball posts have forced you to type this?
/I understand
June 14th, 2011 at 11:24 AM
I know you’re a LeBron homer and all, but Wade was the better player in the Finals. LeBron has far more potential, but he seems unwilling to tap into it at this stage. I think this year should be the kick in the ass that he needs to nail a mid-range game down and develop a solid post game. If he had either one he’d be unstoppable.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:24 AM
LeBron is Dominique.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:25 AM
/looks at the Finals
//scratches head
June 14th, 2011 at 11:26 AM
Then why’d he stop playing that game in the Finals? The zone can only do so much
June 14th, 2011 at 11:26 AM
hence the mental problems…he looked like he didn’t even want to try to do his normal routine.
im not saying he doesn’t need to work on his game at all…just that all this criticism reeks of guys who play too much NBA2k11.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:27 AM
It says a lot about the media today when being compared to an all time great is seen as a snub. You’d swear LeBron had several titles or something.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:27 AM
why’d he stop playing that game against boston when he was here in cleveland?
/seriously…i have no idea
June 14th, 2011 at 11:28 AM
It says a lot about the media today when being compared to an all time great is seen as a snub. You’d swear LeBron had several titles or something.
But it’s the same media that built him up to the hype.
Welcome to America.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:28 AM
You have to remember TBL thinks Pippen was inferior to James Worthy so he does view this as being an insult
June 14th, 2011 at 11:28 AM
he needs to work on 2 things- 1)how to not disappear when you team needs you most. this should NEVER happen. 2) Learn how to deal with the media. He fucks up so much, it gets in his own head.
As of today, he is quickly becoming a joke.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:28 AM
Don’t you remember Jordan’s fade away jumper? He would back you down and then kill you all night with it. LBJ doesn’t have a single go-to move. He can’t shoot like Kobe or post up very well at all. He has all of the natural talent in the world, but until he hammers down a go-to move he’ll always struggle when good defensive teams sell out to shut him down.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:29 AM
The basketball posts have forced you to type this?
/I understand
Nothing to do with basketball. I’m talking about dead horses.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:29 AM
It’s actually kind of disrespectful to Pippen. No way would Scottie be guarding 45 year old Kidd or Stevenson who was camped out on the line. Also, Pip was pissed when Kukoc got the call for the final shot, while LeBron would happily take that assist to Juwon.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:29 AM
The comparison fails primarily because LeBron is nowhere near the defender that Pippen was. Sure, LeBron can defend four positions – but that doesn’t mean he does it well.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:30 AM
I’m starting to get backlash agaisnt the Lebron backlash. Dude is 26, he is entering the age where most of the legendary NBA stars have done serious damage. He had a terrible finals, but he also destroyed the Bulls and was clearly the best player on the court for that series which included the MVP of the league. He is an athletic freak but has things he needs to work on, if he does work on them and take all of this negative reaction he could be ever more of a freak. If he tries to float by on ability he still could be a freak. Lebron could, barring serious injury, play for another 15 years. Who knows where this narrative goes.
/gets off high horse
June 14th, 2011 at 11:32 AM
and neither of those guys had that shit at 26.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:32 AM
So Scottie Pippen had sex with LeBron’s sister?
/the media is confusing.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:33 AM
I vote for him developing the sky hook.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:33 AM
+5.0 KingGrizz
Is there an NBA champion, because I cant seem to find anything about them. I’d like to see the times Jordans teams won when the other team shot 60% from 3.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:34 AM
I await YYSA’s opinion on Kerr as a GM.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:35 AM
Who are these terrible “broadcasters” showing up in the video ad?
Also, there’s a difference between being able to hit a mid-range shot, and having a midrange game. LeBron can hit the mid-range shot at times, but he doesn’t have the mid-range game at all. His footwork isn’t good enough there, you can’t run him off a screen and have him hit a shot in that area, you can’t ask him to, say, split the double off the pick and roll there (a weakness of his…he’s great at turning the corner …but not good at splitting the two b/c of his high dribbling and b/c he’s literally too big to split the seam).
June 14th, 2011 at 11:35 AM
The comparison fails primarily because LeBron is nowhere near the defender that Pippen was. Sure, LeBron can defend four positions – but that doesn’t mean he does it well.
what position do you think lebron doesn’t defend well? its relative to the person playing the position. Josh Smith at the 4? Lebron can take him defensively.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:35 AM
Someone said yesterday they saw Pippen in Akron, so, yeah.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:36 AM
probably duckworth’d but the New York Post headline today read “Obama Beats Weiner”
/always funny
June 14th, 2011 at 11:38 AM
Hadn’t seen a post on this subject yet. Thank you for teh valuable information.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:38 AM
Between regular season and playoffs, LeBron has played almost 30K minutes. He ain’t no spring chicken.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:39 AM
This was an amusing read about LeBron’s attempts at defense in Game 6…I especially liked trying to save face by raising a hand in Kidd’s face after the 3-point attempt was nearly at the rim
June 14th, 2011 at 11:40 AM
This is great.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:40 AM
He wasn’t great, but he wasn’t as turrible as TBL briefly made him out to be.
Don’t forget that tbl kept going on and on about how the heat were going to pull out the series against the mavs and that LePippen was going to average a quintuple-double in games six and seven.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:40 AM
This. He’s been in the league 8 years. He obviously has other interests besides basketball so I can see him getting out of the league by the time he’s 35
June 14th, 2011 at 11:42 AM
He ain’t no spring chicken.
That’s right…he’s a Global Icon!
June 14th, 2011 at 11:43 AM
Has LeBron told Miami fans that he has spoiled them with his play?
/cleveland asks
June 14th, 2011 at 11:43 AM
Don’t go introducing facts into this debate. Lebron is SUPPOSED to be MJ because the media has been trying to find the next MJ since the Harold Miner days. Don’t go fucking up the narrative by interjecting things like logic and reason.
If we’re having this conversation about Lebron’s game not evolving 2 years from now, there’ll be a legitimate beef. Until then, these comparisons are mental masturbation.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:43 AM
he didnt win. let him figure it out. want to hear more about the winning team, dallas.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:44 AM
Yeah, that’s what I meant. I figured so much of these type of posts actually made you (and plenty others) pine for the days of the tiresome BCS debate.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:44 AM
I’m starting to get backlash agaisnt the Lebron backlash
if he would just say he played bad, then everybody would be over it. It’s only fun because he makes it fun.
Is there an NBA champion, because I cant seem to find anything about them. I’d like to see the times Jordans teams won when the other team shot 60% from 3.
espn dallas , or dirkswish.com But yeah, they’re struggling to stay in the news.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:44 AM
Love this headline from Politico:
Boehner: Weiner should go
June 14th, 2011 at 11:44 AM
ive said this before…allen page from the vikings and lebron GOTTA be related.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:45 AM
Don’t go introducing facts into this debate. Lebron is SUPPOSED to be MJ because the media has been trying to find the next MJ since the Harold Miner days
i think the guy who calls himself the king and wore number 23 for 7 years may have a little to do with fueling that fire.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:45 AM
I expect that $90K bottle of champagne Cuban bought and the $20K tip he left will get its own post…dude’s a baller
June 14th, 2011 at 11:45 AM
He doesn’t defend the post well and he struggles mightily on pick and rolls. He did fine on Terry when he sat in the corner, but otherwise? Josh Smith is not a very good offensive player.
Also, everyone raving about his defense on Rose. The guy still got to the hoop, just blew layup after layup.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:45 AM
This is true. The Lebron as a monster defender meme needs to die a quick death. He’s really valuable as a rover who can play the passing lanes and cause disruptions. He’s sort of a super-Allen Iverson in that regard.
But he routinely gets beat off the dribble by shitty players.
Maybe it’s only because he’s lazy and when he does try, he’s a good on-ball defender, but effort is a skill, too, and he doesn’t appear to have it.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:45 AM
Between regular season and playoffs, LeBron has played almost 30K minutes. He ain’t no spring chicken.
Of course — but with modern conditioning, training and nutrition, I dont think it would be unreasonable for a high level guy who came straight from HS — who plays on successfull teams and plays in Olympics, Worlds Championships, ect. to play until they were 40. It’s possible.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:46 AM
but with modern pay scales and endorsement dollars, i think it is preposterous to think someone, who doesn’t seem emotionally invested in the game, would play until they’re 40.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:48 AM
Wait…..this is a joke right? He can’t actually think this
June 14th, 2011 at 11:48 AM
So thats what its come to, breaking down every play to find the smallest mistake and blow it up.
If you wanted to see all of Dirks defensive mistakes/lazy plays, well just watch the entire game.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:48 AM
But will an aging LeBron still be hot?
June 14th, 2011 at 11:48 AM
I hear this side of the debate, but I write that off to immaturity and getting his ass kissed since he was 12.
Now that he’s lost twice on the NBA’s biggest stage and looked really bad doing it the second time, let’s see how he deals with adversity before writing him off. He’s still only 26. I believe when Jordan was 26 (since everyone loves to compare this guy to Jordan, I might as well go with it), he was still getting beat up in the late 80′s by the Pistons.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:49 AM
He doesn’t defend the post well and he struggles mightily on pick and rolls.
are we forgetting that he invented the stat category of the “chase down block”!?! thats gotta count for something!
June 14th, 2011 at 11:50 AM
I expect that $90K bottle of champagne Cuban bought and the $20K tip he left will get its own post…dude’s a baller
Cuban has made so much money on the Mavs, and this sets them up to make so much more. That was the essence of a moribund franchise.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:50 AM
When Dirk gets compared to Scottie Pippen as a defender, we can do that.
Until then, everyone is comfortably calling Dirk at best a bad defender, and at worst, one of the worst defenders ever at his position.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:50 AM
Agree. If LBJ came to the podium and said, “We lost this series and I’m disappointed that we didn’t come through. I’m going to use this as a learning experience, spend my entire summer in the gym and hope to get us right back in this same position with a chance to win a championship next season,” even I would offer up some sympathy.
When he keeps reloading everyone’s guns for them, we keep treating this like a turkey shoot.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:51 AM
Sorry these posts about LeBron’s play in the Finals aren’t all “HE’S SUPER!” to meet your demand…blame him for not playing better, not the people reporting the facts about what happened
June 14th, 2011 at 11:51 AM
Nobody’s calling Dirk an elite defender. Everyone know he sucks.
It’s like when Kobe made his first NBA All-Defense 1st Team because of Doug Collins raving about his defense vs. Iverson on National TV late in the season. How did Portland react in the playoffs? They abused him in the post with Rider and Bonzi. I rather enjoyed it.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:52 AM
He was a great GM under the circumstances. NDub hit the nail on the head already. Trading for Shaq was a bust but hardly one that was facilitated by Kerr. People forget that the Suns were coming apart because Marion and Stoudemire could not coexist. Marion wanted to be the guy (he later learned that it was better to be a piece! Playing in Miami and Toronto will do that). The trade for Richardson was one of the best trades he made so I don’t know what TBL is talking about. The Suns badly missed having a scorer and I think they only gave up Diaw and Raja and got Jrich and Jared Dudley. That is a hell of a steal for the Suns.
Any failings Kerr had as GM is a direct result of the ownership. I thought he did fantastic with what he had to work with and squeezed one more run out of the Steve Nash suns. After Kerr left the Suns (ran by the owner) traded for Hedo and signed a ridiculous contract for Josh Childress.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:52 AM
Well, he kinda sucked the first time around, too.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:53 AM
who doesn’t seem emotionally invested in the game
Can’t argue with this — here is the list of recent NBA players who played past 40. There are no active 40 year old NBA players.
Jordan, Oakley, Cliff Robinson, Mahorn, Malone, Stockton, Herb Williams, Mutombo, Parish, Willis
June 14th, 2011 at 11:53 AM
Really?
June 14th, 2011 at 11:53 AM
LBJ at 26 = in league for 8 years
MJ at 26 = in league for 4-5 years
It’s ridiculous to say that LeBron is still young and has time since MJ took a while to win his first ring. LeBron is 30 in normal NBA years.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:54 AM
Nah. His team just wasn’t that good. LeBron carried that team through Detroit to even get them in the Finals against Timmy and the Spurs.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:55 AM
I do blame him for not playing better. I also blame people for nitpicking every little thing.
LeBron said he focuses and works hard on defense, those are the words out of his mouth. He has never said he’s the best defender in the league, or better than this person, or that person. Stop putting media words in LeBrons mouth.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:55 AM
/high fives YYSA
//farts toward TBL
June 14th, 2011 at 11:55 AM
Really?
Kurt Thomas is 38 Years 253 Days — he is the oldest active player according to Wikipedia.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:56 AM
Isn’t Greg Oden 40?….
June 14th, 2011 at 11:58 AM
Giving little effort on defense in the second half of an elimination game is a “little thing”?
June 14th, 2011 at 11:59 AM
Yeah, but the influx of youth has killed the idea of a 40 year old…
June 14th, 2011 at 11:59 AM
I continue to question why I argue with you.
Go look at his numbers against the Spurs in the four-game sweep. They were abysmal. 32-90 FG’s, 4-20 3pt, TO’s by game: 6,6,5,6.
He was not very good in that series.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:59 AM
I hear this side of the debate, but I write that off to immaturity and getting his ass kissed since he was 12.
he is still largely immature, and he is mainly the cause. at some point, accountability for your play, your actions, your words is going to have to enter the conversation.
June 14th, 2011 at 11:59 AM
Juwan Howard is not 40? Nash and Hill will be there soon and take staying in shape seriously enough that I think they will play beyond 40.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:00 PM
Also, everyone raving about his defense on Rose. The guy still got to the hoop, just blew layup after layup.
The Bulls’ offense was so one-dimensional. Who was Rose going to pass the ball to….Carlos Boozer??? Dirk could have guarded Rose just as well (yes, that’s sarcasm)
June 14th, 2011 at 12:00 PM
For your viewing pleasure
June 14th, 2011 at 12:01 PM
I said he carried them through. I didn’t say he was good in the Finals. I continue to question why I even bother trying to converse with you in a civil manner when you’re nothing but an assumptive prick towards me.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:01 PM
i dont really think dirks supporting cast is that much better than lbj’s in cle. but somehow dirk got it done.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:01 PM
Isn’t Greg Oden 40?…
40 inches
/tbl dong’d
June 14th, 2011 at 12:02 PM
ive said this before…allen page from the vikings and lebron GOTTA be related.
So you’re saying all black people look alike?
Just kidding, there is definitely a resemblance there.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:02 PM
Jason Terry and Shawn Marion don’t suck, I think they were better
June 14th, 2011 at 12:02 PM
regarding dirk’s defense, he is 7-1 with no hops and zero lateral quickness. he is willing defender, he just doesn’t have the quickness to do much about it. lebron is the most athletic/physically gifted player in the league. he should be a great defender. he is not.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:03 PM
Ha. Derrick Favors is only 19 and has already been drafted and traded by the Nets.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:03 PM
i dont really think dirks supporting cast is that much better than lbj’s in cle. but somehow dirk got it done.
Daniel Gibson!!!
June 14th, 2011 at 12:05 PM
this. the bulls weren’t a one-trick pony, they were a half-trick pony. they had no other offensive threat other than rose. how in the heck were they supposed to score? LeBron had two more scorers and he couldn’t freakin’ find a bucket.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:05 PM
For your viewing pleasure
I still can’t believe that Nat Hickey was undrafted.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:05 PM
Talent-wise, maybe. But Dirk had better “role” players. JJ Barea was a game changer for Dallas and a player like that off the bench would have done wonders for those Cleveland teams.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:06 PM
and neither of those guys had that shit at 26.
It’s not the age it’s the time in the league, compare Jordan at 30 to LeBron at 26
June 14th, 2011 at 12:06 PM
If the Cavs had a healthy Varejao (physically) and Delonte (mentally), that team is better than Dallas. But as they were constructed against Boston, I’d give the edge to Dallas.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:06 PM
Much better. Shawn Marion is a hell of a player and probably had his best post season in his career this year.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:06 PM
I was told Carlos Boozer and Kyle Korver could score the basketball…I was told lies
June 14th, 2011 at 12:06 PM
Here dipshit. I’ll even do the work for you. Here’s his numbers in the goddamn series against the Pistons.
53/118 from the floor (45%), 5/14 from 3 (35%), turnovers by game (2, 6, 3, 3, 2, 3) and a rather spectacular Game 5 in Detroit in which he took over the 4th quarter against one of the better defensive teams in the league.
Fire back with a Tyrus Thomas comment though.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:07 PM
I still can’t believe that Nat Hickey was undrafted.
haha — I like how he activited himself Roger Dorn style, went in for 1 game and went 0-6 and had 5 fouls
June 14th, 2011 at 12:11 PM
I like how he activited himself Roger Dorn style,
Wade told LeBron, “Enough of this OLEY bullshit when you’re on defense…”
June 14th, 2011 at 12:11 PM
Boozer is just a terrible fit, something I wondered about early on. He’s a pick-and-roll PF playing with a score-first PG that doesn’t know how to run a pick and roll.
Korver is fine, but that was a bad matchup for him with Miami. For reference, see what Carlisle did with Peja. He barely even tried playing him before realizing it.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:13 PM
Easy, buddy. The original argument was framed around the Finals only–thus the original comment of this only being the second time getting there. Playoff performance is only ancillary to the argument.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:17 PM
Korver is fine,
he’s a spotup shooter, and they wanted him to be a guy to come off of screens. At least during the part of the season I watched (which was the playoffs).
June 14th, 2011 at 12:22 PM
Lebron can still become a great player. But he does have to develop a fearless 10-15 foot jumper.
This is just not true. Kobe had that drive and pull-up jumper in his early 20′s – in the Lakers 3-peat (99-2002) – Kobe was only 21 when that run started.
Jordan also could score from anywhere on the court from age 23 on (when he led the league in scoring). His shooting % inside the 3 point line was well over 50% from ages 23-28. He could score from anywhere and was not as powerful a scorer at the rim as Lebron.
Jordan became a better defender and got Pippen and a few other pieces that got him winning titles at age 27. But, Jordan was not lacking in any area as a scorer before then as Lebron is. Lebron doesn’t have the ability to score from anywhere on the court that both Jordan and Kobe did. It’s simply a fact. He’s a different and more limited kind of scorer than those two are. It’s not a criticism per se – just a fact. But, this limitation is something that top teams have exploited.
Lebron has two issues: 1) he’s immature and afraid to fail – so he fails!; 2) he does have deficiencies compared to the great players who’ve led their teams to titles. He can change those, but he probably needs to pretty quick if he wants to win a bundle of titles – his legs will wear down in a few yrs.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:22 PM
Korver is fine
All those mormon girls in Utah agree with that sentiment.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:25 PM
jordan also had time at UNC when college basketball was LOADED.
i consider MJ’s college experience just as formative as lebron’s NBA experience considering the state of the early 00′s NBA.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:28 PM
you act as if being called pippen is a bad thing. pippen is a top 50 player of all time and still underrated. lebron DOES fit the mold of pippen better.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:29 PM
Disagree completely.
Jordan played college basketball back when it wasn’t the 13th grade like it is now. The competition was light years ahead of what college basketball is now and definitely factors into the debate.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:30 PM
You really comparing NBA to NCAA?
June 14th, 2011 at 12:31 PM
absolutely…you don’t think UNC jordan and worthy couldn’t take on the hawks or cavs from the early 00′s?
June 14th, 2011 at 12:31 PM
that’s what i called my 5th freshmen year
June 14th, 2011 at 12:32 PM
How My Dirk Taste?
June 14th, 2011 at 12:33 PM
big smoove don’t forget big smoove sam perkins
June 14th, 2011 at 12:36 PM
No, regardless of how much better the competition was, it still resembled a very minor league NBA.
Also, Lebron’s high school career was much more competitive than probably any player ever. Couple a national travel schedule against the top teams in the country along with his AAU work in the summers against the cream of the crop, and he’d seen plenty of good competition upon entering the league.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:37 PM
and yet, a team led by ricky davis, dujuan wagner and darius miles ISN’T a minor league NBA? cmon.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:39 PM
They’d beat Jordan’s best Tar Heel team by 25.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:40 PM
no
June 14th, 2011 at 12:41 PM
No I don’t.
Jordan was part of Dean Smith’ s system, the old joke who’ s the only person to hold Jordan under;30 – dean smith.
Jordan also had to go to school.
LeBron had so many advantages more than Jordan coming out of school to develop a game it’s ridiculous.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:43 PM
how can you say that? the two teams would be of comprable ages and played similarly caveman style schemes.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:43 PM
Thank you, NBA and NCAA is night and day.
Why do you think they got NBA players into the Olympics?
June 14th, 2011 at 12:45 PM
Lot$ of good reason$….
June 14th, 2011 at 12:47 PM
so have a lot of guys who haven’t come close to what lebron has done in his 8 years in the league…refined game or not, the guy is still one of the most productive players in the league and having a few post moves isn’t going to all of the sudden make him give a shit.
that’s all i was getting at.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:48 PM
Because of a debacle in ’88…I still think that as of ’92 a college all-star team could have still won the gold (hell the US could have sent Duke out there and they would have medaled)
June 14th, 2011 at 12:48 PM
The Heels would have 3 college studs (Jordan, Perkins, and Worthy) who ended up being first round picks plus a bunch of guys who never saw the light of day in the NBA.
The Cavs would have a roster full of college studs, plus international talent.
Even if 19 year old Jordan was the best frosh ever, he wouldn’t be much better than 23 year old Ricky Davis.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:48 PM
because the russians cheated.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:53 PM
ok, just looked at the 2002-03 cavs roster…carlos boozer would’ve gone apeshit in this hypothetical matchup.
regardless…lebron hasn’t developed a refined game. it is what it is and we can’t do anything about it, and while demanding he have a full arsenal of moves is fine and dandy, what good is it if he’s passing the second he gets his hands on the ball?
June 14th, 2011 at 12:56 PM
Kerr is right. LeBron can’t create his own shot like MJ because he doesn’t have a post up game like MJ.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:56 PM
+1 Juwan Howard missed bunny
June 14th, 2011 at 12:57 PM
Spencer just bang your head against your desk, it will be more productive than this whole post.
June 14th, 2011 at 12:58 PM
They’d beat Jordan’s best Tar Heel team by 25.
I think Jordan’s “best” tarheel team was the nat’l champion in 82, and it was definitely also Worthy and Sam Perkins, and then maybe Kenny Smith at that point. But a lot of NBA dudes. A year after that, Daugherty got there. I”ll look it up.
June 14th, 2011 at 1:00 PM
I just checked. Give me the 82-83 roster, plus James Worthy, and they’ll beat that Cavs team 4-7.
I’ll start calling my guys, you call yours. We’ll start Saturday. Seems like enough time, although I may have a hard time getting Brad Daugherty to do anything other than race, daddy.
June 14th, 2011 at 1:06 PM
I’m gonna guess Milt Palacio and Dajuan Wagner can carve some time out for this game. They’re available.
June 14th, 2011 at 1:06 PM
MJ didn’t develop his post up game until 96. I mean Dirk just showed everyone that a player can still develop and improve his game in his 30′s, so to write off LeBron at 26 is foolish.
June 14th, 2011 at 1:11 PM
Those Cleveland Cav teams would beat that Tar Heel team by 30
June 14th, 2011 at 1:13 PM
Those Cleveland Cav teams would beat that Tar Heel team by 30
says you, who had the Heat over Dallas in 4.
We’re setting it up. I’m having trouble getting Michael Jordan on the phone to find out how to get in touch with 1982 Michael Jordan, but I’m working on it.
June 14th, 2011 at 1:26 PM
But Jordan had midrange game much earlier in his career than Lebron. C’mon, he’s 8 years into the league and his go to shot (other than steamrolling into the defense) is jacking up a stationary midrange shot or pulling up in transition.
June 14th, 2011 at 1:27 PM
Ricky Davis would shoot the ball on his own net to get a triple double.
June 14th, 2011 at 1:29 PM
Ricky davis in all his glory: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3lwssbS3Io&feature=related
June 14th, 2011 at 1:31 PM
That first part is very wrong, but the second part is spot on. Definitely foolish to write LeBron off. Miami would be insanely stupid to trade him. Hell, he might be ok if he didn’t develop any new aspect to his game besides becoming a slightly better 3 pt shooter (we saw what can happen with that in the Chicago series). That said, I think it’s very clear he needs to step his mental game up big time, otherwise he won’t be winning many titles, if any.
June 14th, 2011 at 1:36 PM
that hurt.
that’s cool. While you’re at it, have MJ bring Jimmy Black, Matt Doherty, Buzz Peterson and the rest of the crew along. I mean we just saw how effective a Big 3 can be.
June 14th, 2011 at 1:43 PM
to be fair, I think Darrell also had the Heat over the Bulls in 5, even after game 1.
June 14th, 2011 at 1:49 PM
I’ll admit the first part is very wrong. He used the post up more prominently when he came back than during his first run. But he did have it in his arsenal.
June 14th, 2011 at 1:54 PM
How many people are seriously doing this? .01% of the NBA fan populace? The only thing this series did was alter LeBron’s legacy. Still doesn’t mean he can’t win 4 or so titles…but there’s always going to be at least a foot note of his play in this series.
He can recover from this (and frankly, I’m expecting him to). But MJ is now unapproachable…and we’re getting close to saying Kobe as well.
June 14th, 2011 at 1:55 PM
jordan was a great FT shooter. james is not. that’s just work ethic. jordan was shooting 54 percent from the floor as a perimeter player/slasher. he led he league in FGs made for 10 years. he could score from anywhere at anytime. he was unstoppable. drives, pullups, post-ups, threes. hell i forgot that he made 37 percent of his threes in 1989-90. that’s just unreal for the type of player he was. he attacked, drove and finished like d-wade – only way, way better.
June 14th, 2011 at 2:01 PM
Sportseditor, only squabble I would have there is that MJ didn’t have the deep three point range. He also was wildly inconsistent from year to year with the three ball. Obviously it didn’t hinder his game so maybe it’s a moot point. But if you’re comparing strengths and weaknesses, I supposed that would be one area where you could nitpick.
I also don’t know how to quantify the whole “finishing way better” around the rim thing. I think D-Wade’s finishing is pretty ridiculous around the basket…as was Jordan’s. Not sure I could say “way, way better” though.
June 14th, 2011 at 2:07 PM
Jordan could not shoot 3s.
June 14th, 2011 at 2:08 PM
Jordan could not shoot 3s.
oh, he could shoot them…he just didn’t make them with a very good percentage.
p.s. Love jordan.
June 14th, 2011 at 2:09 PM
Damn, Scottie averaged 20 8 and 8 in the 92 Finals. Also of note, Drexler was 25/8 boards/5 assists in that series, but only shot 40%.
/random NBA stat checking
June 14th, 2011 at 2:12 PM
i see your point. it’s tough to quantify.
i was just kinda drawing a conclusion on jordan making more FTs, making more FGs, scoring more points and making a higher percentage of shots. i’m not trying to be a smart-ass. just telling you how i came to that conclusion.
what’s astounding is jordan made 833 FTs in 1986-86. that’s an outrageous number.
June 14th, 2011 at 2:15 PM
MJ may have a weakness in his 3pt %, but if I’m remembering correctly, didn’t he not shoot very many? also, yes, DWade is an excellent finisher at the basket. I think he was something like 72% this year, but I could be wrong.
June 14th, 2011 at 2:15 PM
he could in 1989-90, 92-93, 95-96 and 96-97. he was always adding something, like all the great ones.
June 14th, 2011 at 2:17 PM
jordan made 111 threes on 42.7 percent shooting in 95-96.
June 14th, 2011 at 2:19 PM
ok it was only 66% for Wade.
June 14th, 2011 at 2:19 PM
Jordan’s career TS% is .569.
Wade’s is .567.
Lebron is at .566.
Regardless of what you say about how these guys can or can’t finish, they’re all very similar.
Granted this includes Jordan’s shitty Washington years, but that’s only 2 seasons out of 15.
June 14th, 2011 at 2:20 PM
Shortened three point line.
Big Z would shoot 45% from 3 in that type of environment.
June 14th, 2011 at 2:22 PM
Rusty, any idea what each of their FGA per game is? I’m under the impression that Jordan shot far more than the other two. Curious, but can’t look it up right now.
June 14th, 2011 at 2:23 PM
ah yes.forgot about that.
June 14th, 2011 at 2:24 PM
Jordan averaged 23 shots per game in his career.
Lebron (20) and Wade (18) both less.
June 14th, 2011 at 2:26 PM
I will never understand (too young) how Jordan scores 28 his rookie year (amazing)…gets injured 2nd year, comes back third year averaging a ridiculous 37. That’s insane. Part of that has to be competition and lack of athletes in the league right? He was such an athletic freak, who were defenses allowing 37 a game in his second year? I’m sure he was chucking…but was that all inside the paint? Would love to see those games so I could talk intelligently about them.
June 14th, 2011 at 2:28 PM
thanks. not quite significant enough to draw any real conclusions from.
June 14th, 2011 at 2:37 PM
I still think his most impressive year was 88-89. Averaged 32-8-8 for the season. WTF. In the last 20 or so games of the season he played point guard and at one point had 7 straight triple-doubles and a 14 game stretch where he averaged 33 points, 11.9 assists and 10.2 rebounds. Absurd.
June 14th, 2011 at 2:41 PM
not too shabby
June 14th, 2011 at 2:46 PM
he actually had 11 triple doubles out of a 12 game stretch including that 7 game streak. also, right before that streak started, he went for 34 pts, 17ast, 7rbds.
June 14th, 2011 at 2:47 PM
sorry, it was 10 out of 11.
June 14th, 2011 at 3:13 PM
Damn Chicago, yeah I misread that. Crazy.
So depressing that there may not be an NBA season next year. A lost year for aging guys like Kobe, Dirk, Nash, etc.
June 14th, 2011 at 7:40 PM
Pippen is a punk and so is LeBron. Neither can hold a candle to Jordan so shut up with the argument.