8th Circuit Ruling on the Stay Means We Will Likely Have an NFL Lockout Into Training Camp

Late yesterday, a three judge panel of the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals, by a 2-1 decision, likely continued the lockout into the training camp season at minimum.
The court ruled in favor of the NFL on the issue of the extension of the stay of the trial court’s ruling enjoining the lockout. While this was not a ruling on the merits of the injunction granted by Judge Nelson, it strongly hinted that the result from the 8th Circuit next month will be in favor of ownership.
This is because one of the elements necessary to grant a stay of the trial court’s ruling is that the moving party make a strong showing ”that he is likely to succeed on the merits”. The majority felt this was the case, which basically means that unless they have a change of heart after further briefing and oral argument, the player’s (and Judge Nelson’s) position will be overturned:
The district court reasoned that this case does not involve or grow out of a labor dispute because the Players no longer are represented by a union.We have considerable doubt about this interpretation of the Act.
I won’t bore you with all the Norris-La Guardia details, but as I said back when the trial court ruled, this basically comes down to whether labor law still applies after the players disclaimed union status (in which case the owners get to delay even if they ultimately don’t prevail on the merits), or whether anti-trust law applies (in which case the owners lose the ability to lockout as an anti-competitive practice).
The issue is where is the line where one crosses from one area into the other. The players have relied on the language at the end of the Supreme Court decision in Brown v. Pro Football, Inc. Now, that Brown decision ruled in favor of the owners on the labor exemption to anti-trust actions, but the specific issue in that case was whether reaching impasse in collective bargaining–and the owners unilaterally imposing their last, best offer–was sufficient to cross that line. It was not. But the following language at the end has been a key factor in how the NFLPA reacted over the last 15 years:
Our holding is not intended to insulate from antitrust review every joint imposition of terms by employers, for an agreement among employers could be sufficiently distant in time and in circumstances from the collective bargaining process that a rule permitting antitrust intervention would not significantly interfere with that process. See, e.g., 50 F. 3d, at 1057 (suggesting that exemption lasts until collapse of the collective bargaining relationship, as evidenced by decertification of the union) . . .
Based on that, the players disclaimed the union following the ruling, reformed as union as part of the settlement with ownership, and disclaimed again when the collective bargaining process proved ineffective. The players thought the disclaimer decision that terminated the union was the dividing line. It does not appear the majority will agree. I tend to agree with dissent on that issue, but look forward to seeing how the majority addresses where that line is (if they do address it) because it seems like their interpretation is very broad and perhaps broader than the Supreme Court in Brown.
But that’s worth about 2 cents. The practical result is the lockout will likely carry to preseason, which is what the owners want. Remember, we don’t even have the ruling on the merits, likely to come sometime in early June. Sure, the players can appeal to the 8th Circuit en banc (which means all the judges), but since the overall makeup of the court is at least as conservative as this panel, that is a bump in the road. Then they can appeal to the Supreme Court, which may or may not choose to hear it. That’s not getting done before August rolls around unless the courts all move on a greatly accelerated schedule.
Both sides have taken body blows and delivered them throughout this process. Both have been willing to put their fates in judicial hands rather than compromise. The NFL now has the advantage again (though the Judge Doty ruling on the lockout television money is still pending). I would hope that the NFL and the players will come together and be willing to stop the back and forth trench warfare and realize that he who has the upper hand now may not have it in a month. But I’m not hopeful. I’m expecting more mustard gas and barbed wire.
[photo via Getty]

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112 Responses to “8th Circuit Ruling on the Stay Means We Will Likely Have an NFL Lockout Into Training Camp”
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May 17th, 2011 at 12:49 PM
Judd Nelson >>>>> Judge Nelson
May 17th, 2011 at 12:51 PM
didn’t someone say the nats/bucs game was already ppd for today?
i just gave some guy on the street metro directions to the stadium, hoping the game is actually cancelled.
he deserves it if he didn’t know that already.
May 17th, 2011 at 12:52 PM
So, bottom line, what is likely is that the football played next season in the NFL will not be played to the level we expect it to be played due to a dispute over money. Preparation will be affected, especially for the rookies.
This is like two kids fighting over who gets to sit in the front seat of the car.
May 17th, 2011 at 12:52 PM
i just gave some guy on the street metro directions to the stadium, hoping the game is actually cancelled.
That’s cold, bro.
May 17th, 2011 at 12:53 PM
I like to consider myself a smart guy (I’m not going to #humblebrag with details), but my eyes glazed over in the middle of this post.
May 17th, 2011 at 12:54 PM
Judge Dredd >>> Judd Nelson >>>>> Judge Nelson
May 17th, 2011 at 12:54 PM
This is like two kids fighting over who gets to sit in the front seat of the car.
Wake me up when there are large men smashing into each other on television in the fall. Until then I. Don’t. Give. A. Shit.
May 17th, 2011 at 12:55 PM
I like to consider myself a smart guy (I’m not going to #humblebrag with details), but my eyes glazed over in the middle of this post.
Me too. Sorry. On the plus side, this ruling probably means lots of movie posts this summer.
May 17th, 2011 at 12:55 PM
I AM THE LAW!!
/can’t believe they are remaking that shitshow.
May 17th, 2011 at 12:55 PM
There are no fights, it’s who calls Shotgun first.
May 17th, 2011 at 12:55 PM
That’s cold, bro.
I think I give wrong directions at least once a summer on purpose. Favorite one is to tell them to go to “J” street and make a left.
May 17th, 2011 at 12:55 PM
Judge Wapner >>>>>>>> All other judges.
May 17th, 2011 at 12:56 PM
Judge Smails >>> Judge Dredd >>> Judd Nelson >>>>> Judge Nelson
/He is the law
May 17th, 2011 at 12:56 PM
The 2nd things that has pissed me off the most with over this whole CBA squabble other then the fact they are even having it to start with is how a good number of fans were actually HOPING the NFL would win on the lockout motion yesterday.
I just don’t understand how as fan of the game,whether you side with owners or players, you can wish for something that means there will be no Pro Football in the Fall?
May 17th, 2011 at 12:56 PM
I am the law!
May 17th, 2011 at 12:56 PM
I like to consider myself a smart guy (I’m not going to #humblebrag with details), but my eyes glazed over in the middle of this post.
I did the same thing, but I feel bad because I know Lisk did some research.
May 17th, 2011 at 12:57 PM
Wow talk about Duckwerth’d…multiple “I am the law” within a minute.
May 17th, 2011 at 12:57 PM
I don’t even have the energy to make some statement about which side is right or wrong. I’m already worn out by these guys.
May 17th, 2011 at 12:57 PM
/can’t believe they are remaking that shitshow.
Really. Judge Dredd was a meme between me and my former roommate. We used to quote that all the time.
/Roommate then got himself a serious GF, became pussy-whipped and turned into a douche/terrible friend.
//Carry on
May 17th, 2011 at 12:57 PM
I would prefer they remake the shit shows than tamper with solid movies.
May 17th, 2011 at 12:57 PM
this sucks.
i already miss the NFL
May 17th, 2011 at 12:58 PM
Wow talk about Duckwerth’d…multiple “I am the law” within a minute.
I personally feel that it must span 2-3 separate posts before it can be a “duckworth”
Plus you spelled it wrong
May 17th, 2011 at 12:58 PM
So to recap:
- The owners are betting that this decision will mean they can take the players to the edge of regular season’s start and, when the players see no more money in their immediate future, the players will cave.
- The players are betting that Judge Doty’s decision on the owners’ TV war chest holds up. Meaning the owners won’t see another dime from NFL revenues until the league is back up and running.
This is one funky game of chicken they’re playing. I get the sense both will have to blink to make this go away.
(Aside: no NFL to look forward to, NBA going in a similar direction as NFL, soccer silly season, no hockey. This summer is going to suck!)
May 17th, 2011 at 12:58 PM
The Flash plug-ins on the GD Men’s Warehouse ads are on my last nerve. If you’re managing to crash Chrome, whoever developed them needs to be fired.
May 17th, 2011 at 12:58 PM
“Mega City municipal code 27-22: illegal use of city electricity. How do you plead?”
May 17th, 2011 at 1:01 PM
But I’m not hopeful.
same here.
if you’re not already, it’s time to become a college football fan.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:01 PM
I’m using an Avatar for each number to spice up a countdown, I’d like to see if anybody has any input on what to use for certain numbers (the one listed first is the choice now – or someone who is projected like #6 – jk:
4. Orr, Gehrig, Favre
6. Sanchez, Bill Russell, Dr J
7. Elway, Mantle
8. Yaz, Ripkin, Yogi, Aikman
12. Brady, Bradshaw, Namath
13. Wilt, Marino, Arod
19. Unitas, Yzerman (he is kind of know by his number), Bob Feller
32. Jim Brown, Magic, Koufax, Shaq, Bill Walton, OJ
33. Jabbar, Bird
44. West, Aaron,Pistol Pete, Reggie Jackson, Jim Brown (Syracuse)
3 Ruth, Dale Earnhardt
May 17th, 2011 at 1:01 PM
Was in a hurry to get that posted. My bad.
/end the lockout soon please…so want fantasy football this fall
May 17th, 2011 at 1:01 PM
Judge Smails > Judge Dredd > Judge Mills Lane > Judd Nelson > Judge Nelson
May 17th, 2011 at 1:01 PM
With no NFL here in the fall, I’m sure the college football posts will be enjoyable.
/sarcasm font
May 17th, 2011 at 1:02 PM
But there happens to be billions of dollars in cash laying in the front seat.
I DIDN’T BREAK THE LAW, I AM THE LAWWWWWWWWWW!
May 17th, 2011 at 1:03 PM
I’m using an Avatar for each number to spice up a countdown, I’d like to see if anybody has any input on what to use for certain numbers (the one listed first is the choice now – or someone who is projected like #6 – jk:
WTF?
May 17th, 2011 at 1:03 PM
he deserves it if he didn’t know that already.
He deserves for needing directions. Read a map, boss
May 17th, 2011 at 1:03 PM
16-Joe Montana
No one else counts
May 17th, 2011 at 1:03 PM
Is there no better way to write labor laws such that it doesn’t become a partisan thing with respect to who the judge happens to be? Makes you wonder what the point even is of arguing these cases if it generally just boils down to “I support employees/owners”
May 17th, 2011 at 1:04 PM
I just miss talking about something that directly affects the team I root for. No free agency. No mini-camp. No progression from last season for the players. It’s just shitty.
Deciphering legal jargon is much worse than trying to figure out DVOA or whatever.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:04 PM
O/T
Anyone else listen to the free YouTube stream of Rome by Danger Mouse, Daniel Luppi feat. Norah Jones and Jack White. Quality stuff IMO.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:04 PM
I firmly believe the owners are playing hardball just to keep the status quo. So they have to make it seem like they are losing money and trying to ask for all these concessions and then last minute they will go with a similar deal and will make it look like they caved. Players will claim victory and owners will be extremely happy they did not have to pay more.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:04 PM
26 – Chase Utley
92 – Reggie White
20 – Mike Schmidt
7 – Mauer
May 17th, 2011 at 1:04 PM
Link
May 17th, 2011 at 1:05 PM
What is this “map” you speak of?
/enters address into GPS on phone
May 17th, 2011 at 1:05 PM
If they wanted the status quo retained they wouldn’t have opted out of the previous CBA
May 17th, 2011 at 1:06 PM
NBA going in a similar direction as NHL
/Fixed for cancelling an entire season
May 17th, 2011 at 1:06 PM
Heard it the other day. Solid.
I like Jack White, but The Dead Weather sucks.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:06 PM
Scratch Arod, replace with Datsyuk.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:06 PM
I beg to differ.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:07 PM
I agree.
/Ballz’d
May 17th, 2011 at 1:07 PM
And VIZQUEL!
May 17th, 2011 at 1:07 PM
What is this “map” you speak of?
Ha! I thought of the phone thing, too (still reading a map, fwiw), but I was more referring to the maps in the stations. It’s really not that hard to figure out
May 17th, 2011 at 1:09 PM
billionaires > millionaires
May 17th, 2011 at 1:09 PM
Especially in a city. Everything’s on a fucking grid. Tourists are one thing, but if you can’t find your way around the city you live in, perhaps it’s time you were liquidated.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:09 PM
Fixed
May 17th, 2011 at 1:10 PM
Have we had a sky is falling in baseball discussion yet over the Scott Boras/Eric Hosmer thing and the two HS pitchers asking for $20M and $30M, respectively, in the draft?
May 17th, 2011 at 1:10 PM
24: Mays
25: Bonds
May 17th, 2011 at 1:11 PM
Judge Harry Stone > Judge Smails > Judge Dredd > Judge Mills Lane > Judd Nelson > Judge Nelson.
The man performed magic in court!
May 17th, 2011 at 1:11 PM
This thing is dragging out for awhile, the sides are still duking it out in the court, therefore nothing is getting done on the negotiating table.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:11 PM
Hold on. What?
Speaking of people that need to be liquidated, Scott Boras is near the top of the list. Fucking parasite.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:11 PM
hopefully this stretches out so both sides get smaller cuts of the pie due to a decrease in revenue from fan frustration/indifference.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:11 PM
Can’t argue there. Well played.
I remember last year Boras was saying that Harper would get $50 mil signing bonus. What did he get? Around $10 million. Total bullshit rumor and won’t happen.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:12 PM
Omar needs to come back to the Tribe.
Austin Kearns and Chad Durbin for Omar Y’Amigo’s!
May 17th, 2011 at 1:13 PM
I’d enjoy seeing all of them get less, but I can’t see the fans turning away like they did in baseball. People loves them the foosball.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:13 PM
Have we had a sky is falling in baseball discussion yet over the Scott Boras/Eric Hosmer thing and the two HS pitchers asking for $20M and $30M, respectively, in the draft?
They just put that number up there and then “claim” to have caved when they sign for like 9 million. This is old news.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:13 PM
I can’t get into the hand-wringing on this NFL labor dispute for some reason. I think I’m just expecting the players to cave and, at worst, we miss one game.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:14 PM
Charles Barkley giving away a grand on the radio on a whim. Gotta love the Chuck Wagon.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:14 PM
No, he needs to come back to the Giants. The Tribe are doing just fine without him, it’s the Giants that need a replacement for the corpse that is named Tejada…
May 17th, 2011 at 1:14 PM
This is the real irritating part. Mediation dates don’t even matter. Just court dates. And even those aren’t that big a deal because whatever decision is made, it will be appealed, which means more delay.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:14 PM
Can’t see that happening with the NFL. Not in this lifetime.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:14 PM
16-Joe Montana
Bobby Clarke, Marcel Dionne, Bobby/Brett Hull…
May 17th, 2011 at 1:15 PM
That’s a bar tab some nights out for Chuck.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:15 PM
They just put that number up there and then “claim” to have caved when they sign for like 9 million.
No, they’re legit, apparently. Asking for 5 and 6 year deals. It’s been all over MLBTR and BA the last two days. The one kid can hit 100 at age 18. Can’t see where that might go wrong…
May 17th, 2011 at 1:16 PM
the longer it drags out the more people will get pissed b/c of it. Robert Kraft made a point the other day that if they don’t resolve it soon the fans will stop showing an indifference to the issue (i’ll care when games are cancelled) and they won’t take the side of the player or the owner…they’ll take the side of the fan.
in this case, the fan has all the power since that 9 billion dollars they are fighting over came from all of our pockets, no one else’s.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:16 PM
I am the law?
May 17th, 2011 at 1:17 PM
The chances of these guys getting major league deals as HS pitchers is smaller than the chance of me having a threeway with Bar and Kate Upton.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:18 PM
Best part is the hosts were just joking that he should match the $1K they’re giving away. He just ran with it. His response was something like, “A thousand dollars? That’s it? I carry that in petty cash on me.”
The last 90 minutes of radio have been great with Chuck. Some awesome Michael Jordan stories from the Dream Team.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:18 PM
I’ll cross my fingers, but I know I’m weak. Once the Niners are on TV, I’ll be watching.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:18 PM
Potentially, but the next step is all the way at the top, which will probably come down pretty quickly. Not sure the Supreme Court will be willing to listen.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:19 PM
I’d enjoy seeing all of them get less, but I can’t see the fans turning away like they did in baseball.
I hate this narrative. Do you know how financially solid MLB is right now? That’s why the Boras/Hosmer quotes exist. Boras is banking on the next round of broadcasting rights to basically quadruple what the leagues are seeing right now
May 17th, 2011 at 1:20 PM
Rod Woodsen was the #26 in the Sports Illustrated list, I just listed the ones I was undecided which one to use. 16 was Montana, then Hull, Bobby Clarke and George Blanda. And Mays was 24, and Bonds was 25
May 17th, 2011 at 1:21 PM
So you’re telling me there’s a chance!!
/LLoyd Christmas’d
May 17th, 2011 at 1:22 PM
What is with the NFL being bullet proof? Everyone remembers that in 1993 baseball was the same way right?
I don’t think they’ll suffer near the damage, but after the 1987 strike it took some time for fans to come back.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:22 PM
The chances of these guys getting major league deals as HS pitchers is smaller than the chance of me having a threeway with Bar and Kate Upton.
That depends. Are Kate & Bar drafting you in the first round with the chance of seeing no return if they don’t have that threesome with you?
May 17th, 2011 at 1:23 PM
Not even close.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:23 PM
Fantasy sports and RedZone didn’t exist back then. Nor was the internet and cable sports coverage as prevalent. If they miss part of the season, I’ll be a little bit pissed. If they miss the whole season, I’ll be furious. But training camp? That won’t keep me from watching games.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:25 PM
Sigh, it really was a better time in those days
May 17th, 2011 at 1:25 PM
I remember fans not going to replacement games, but I remember when the real players came back, so did the fans.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:26 PM
Yes it was from the things that matter. TV revenue and corporate dollars.
Of course training camp or even a game or two won’t matter, but if the Super Bowl is cancelled? Yeah, shit will hit the fan.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:26 PM
Not sure…I’ll get back to you.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:27 PM
i think people will watch, and i think people will buy the Merch. But i don’t think it will be in 9 billion dollar range that the NFL enjoys now.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:27 PM
the longer it drags out the more people will get pissed b/c of it. Robert Kraft made a point the other day that if they don’t resolve it soon the fans will stop showing an indifference to the issue (i’ll care when games are cancelled) and they won’t take the side of the player or the owner…they’ll take the side of the fan.
I’m in the “I’ll get angry when games don’t happen” group.
I hate this narrative. Do you know how financially solid MLB is right now?
And yet, I know several people who did swear off of MLB because of the labor strike in ’94.
It’s always difficult to determine how these things will play out. Maybe football fans will turn more and more to college football. Maybe fans will come back in droves once the league reopens their doors. Maybe they’ll just drive away the casual fans and be stuck with the diehards only.
Right now the NFL and its players have lost nothing but time and a little money in attorney fees. Take this into August and we might all be singing a different tune.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:28 PM
The only reason there was a strike in ’94 was because the Expo’s or the Tribe were gonna win it all.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:28 PM
This. I don’t give a fuck about the preseason anyway.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:29 PM
Oh, for sure Trey. But I’m honestly curious, let’s take a poll. Who thinks the NFL will have a season this year and who doesn’t? If you think they’ll have one, when do you think it will begin?
This is pure speculation, but let’s do a social experiment.
I’ve got them starting the season on-time, no games missed. Training camp likely won’t happen and we’ll miss pre-season games as well.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:30 PM
Neither did HD TV. Football on TV is glorious. Miss all of preseason. I don’t care.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:30 PM
/Favre’d
May 17th, 2011 at 1:30 PM
Pfftt, The Big Hurt wasn’t going to allow that to happen
May 17th, 2011 at 1:32 PM
If you’re not pissed about them missing training camp, will you be pissed if the NFL doesn’t come back until game 1 of the season and there are tons of injuries to key players because of all the missed conditioning time and practice?
May 17th, 2011 at 1:32 PM
Season: yes
Start time: 1-2 months late, undecided if they push back playoffs or just run a smaller schedule
May 17th, 2011 at 1:32 PM
14 game season with expanded playoffs (8 teams in each conference?) = Nobody cares about the two missed games & maybe some people decide they actually like the extra playoffs
May 17th, 2011 at 1:33 PM
Depends which ones I have on my fantasy team
May 17th, 2011 at 1:33 PM
that’s my point. the closer we get to zero hour the more frustrated fans will be and people will start to question how much they want to spend on NFL product (TV, Merch, Tickets, etc).
right now the narrative is owners vs players, but eventually the discussion will start leading towards what the money they are fighting over consists of. it’s only a matter of time before sportscenter starts running figures to show how a lockout into the season will impact revenue for both sides with jersey sales, ticket sales, directv revenue, etc… all things the fan pays for.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:34 PM
It’s to be expected I guess…..the guys who truly care about winning and their team will be training now anyway. Not everyone is a douchecanoe like Reggie Bush.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:35 PM
it’s only a matter of time before sportscenter starts running figures to show how the players are ruining America and the good and kind-hearted owners only want to run a successful business that benefits us all
There’s no labor impasse at the WWL, right?
May 17th, 2011 at 1:36 PM
I think they’ll get the season in. They can’t possibly be that stupid. I believe it starts a little later this year anyway and Rog said they could miss 3 weeks and still have a full season. Someone will cave.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:36 PM
ESPN has a direct interest in football being played, it’s called Monday Night Football. They should start tossing those numbers around sooner as opposed to later.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:36 PM
The only bad part about no OTA’s is Matt Stafford keeps putting on more fucking weight. Slim down dough boy!
May 17th, 2011 at 1:38 PM
Perhaps he has adopted the “you can’t pull fat” theory.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:38 PM
One of these is way out of place…..
4. Orr, Gehrig, Favre
6. Sanchez, Bill Russell, Dr J
7. Elway, Mantle
8. Yaz, Ripkin, Yogi, Aikman
12. Brady, Bradshaw, Namath
13. Wilt, Marino, Arod
19. Unitas, Yzerman (he is kind of know by his number), Bob Feller
32. Jim Brown, Magic, Koufax, Shaq, Bill Walton, OJ
33. Jabbar, Bird
44. West, Aaron,Pistol Pete, Reggie Jackson, Jim Brown (Syracuse)
3 Ruth, Dale Earnhardt
May 17th, 2011 at 1:38 PM
i think they’ll have a season, an 11th hour deal on opening weekend prevents the first week, possibly 2 weeks from being played…but i do easily think this can go as far as 6 weeks into the season since both sides are more concerned about putting the other in a spot where they have to cave.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:41 PM
Souvy, they’ll have a season…miss 2 weeks or so
May 17th, 2011 at 1:45 PM
He’s hoping all the fat will protect his brittle, crumbling bones and weak joints.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:54 PM
Who thinks the NFL will have a season this year and who doesn’t? If you think they’ll have one, when do you think it will begin?
Today, I think there will be an NFL season. I think it’ll start late though (Week 3) which is the NFL’s implied cut-off date for avoiding missing any games given how they built the schedule. It means teams won’t get a bye week.
May 17th, 2011 at 1:56 PM
+20 Chicken McNuggets