NFL Draft: Trading Future Early Picks Is a Bad Idea
I know that some Patriot fans probably think that the Patriots trade just to trade, and that it doesn’t do any good if you never use them. Those with short memories, that is. The trade back has gotten them future picks that included Vince Wilfork (in the Kyle Boller deal) and Jerod Mayo (as part of Joe Staley deal). Those two deals by themselves should demonstrate the value of the New England strategy.
Monday, I talked about not liking the Saints and Falcons strategy of trading up by including a package that included future first round picks. That was based on more general data that included career values by draft position. I think people tend to respond better to concrete examples. I also wanted to see if perhaps teams that traded up and mortgaged the future were doing do because they were getting better value and were better evaluators (ummm, as you will see below, no).
I went through the previous 15 drafts and found every trade that primarily involved draft picks (it wasn’t a current veteran player who was a centerpiece to the deal, like the Cutler or Seymour trades) and involved one team receiving another team’s future 1st or 2nd round pick to get the deal done. I also include my quick assessment of whether the team that traded a future pick won or lost the deal in retrospect.
- Alphonso Smith (2009) for Earl Thomas (2010) TOO EARLY
- Everette Brown and Mike Goodson (2009) for Mike Iupati (2010) TOO EARLY
- Jeff Otah (2008) for Eric Wood (2009) plus Tyrell Johnson and Mike McGlynn (2008) TOO EARLY
- Jacob Hester (2008) for Michael Mitchell (2009) and Josh Johnson (2008) DRAW
- Joe Staley (2007) for Sedrick Ellis (2008) and John Bowie (2007) [NE eventually traded for Jerod Mayo pick] LOSS
- Brady Quinn (2007) for Kevin Kolb (2007) and Felix Jones (2008) [DAL traded Kolb pick for Anthony Spencer] BAD LOSS
- Tony Ugoh (2007) for Kentwan Balmer (2008) and Dashon Goldson (2007) LOSS
- Rocky McIntosh (2006) for Anthony Fasano (2006), Drew Coleman (2006), and Eric Weddle (2007) LOSS
- Jason Campbell (2005) for Karl Paymah (2005), Manny Lawson (2006), and Brandon Marshall (2006) LOSS
- Eli Manning (2004) for Philip Rivers (2004), Shawne Merriman (2005), Nate Kaeding (2004), and Jerome Collins (2005) LOSS
- JP Losman (2004) for Marcus Spears (2005), Julius Jones (2004), and Sean Ryan (2004) BAD LOSS
- Chris Cooley (2004) and Mark Wilson (2004) for Josh Bullocks (2005) and Rodney Leisle (2004) GOOD WIN
- Kyle Boller (2003) for Vince Wilfork (2004) and Ben Joppru (2003) BAD LOSS
- Wade Smith (2003) for Madieu Williams (2004) [NE traded Williams pick for Corey Dillon] LOSS
- Michael Vick (2001) for LaDainian Tomlinson (2001), Reche Caldwell (2002), Tay Cody (2001), and Tim Dwight LOSS
- Morlon Greenwood (2001) and Otis Leverette (2001) for Sheldon Brown (2002) LOSS
- Ricky Williams (1999) for Cade McNown (1999), Lavar Arrington (2000), D’Wayne Bates (1999), Desmond Clark (1999), Nate Stimson (1999), Khari Samuel (1999), Billy Miller (1999), and Lloyd Harrison (2000) [Washington traded the McNown pick as part of package to get Champ Bailey] LOSS
- Reggie Kelly (1999) for Jamal Lewis (2000) BAD LOSS
- Mikhael Ricks (1998) for John Abraham (2000) BAD LOSS
- Patrick Surtain (1998) for Rashard Anderson (2000) GOOD WIN
- Ryan Leaf (1998) for Andre Wadsworth (1998), Corey Chavous (1998), and David Boston (1999) LOSS
- Bryan Still (1996) for Reidel Anthony (1997) DRAW
- Terrell Fletcher (1995) for Pete Kendall (1996) BAD LOSS
- J.J. Stokes (1995) for Craig Powell (1995), Mike Frederick (1995), Dave Barr (1995), and Ray Lewis (1996) BAD, BAD, LEROY BROWN LOSS
I count 2 Good Wins to 5 Draws/Too Early, 10 Losses, and 7 Bad Losses. So basically, out of the last 24 trade-ups that involved a future first or second round pick, only two could have been qualified as a success in retrospect. That’s a bad hit rate.

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93 Responses to “NFL Draft: Trading Future Early Picks Is a Bad Idea”
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May 3rd, 2011 at 1:31 PM
No, its usually non Patriots fans who use this logic.
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:33 PM
lot of losses. Good to see that Benny Joppru hasn’t been forgotten.
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:37 PM
w00t!
/high fives dimitroff
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:38 PM
Thought this was wiped clean from my memory banks, only to see it reappear again. Thanks dickface!
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:38 PM
I think it’s safe to call this a loss, since Smith has already moved on to another team and Thomas at the very least looks like an adequate starter.
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:40 PM
JJ Stokes for Ray Lewis? I’d still take that trade today. I always had such high expectations for Mikhael Ricks. I wonder why
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:40 PM
This one seems weird to me
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:41 PM
I remember in the one Rose Bowl where JJ Stokes looked like the next big thing…should have realized then that UCLA receivers only live to disappoint at the next level (despite what Freddie Mitchell will try and tell you)
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:42 PM
The players that came out of the Ricky Williams trade don’t really make it look AS horrible in hindsight…not exactly the crop Dallas brought in with the Herschel picks
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:43 PM
i’m by no means a giants fan, but there’s a strong argument that this trade worked out just fine for them, it’s a draw if anything else honestly.
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:45 PM
despite what Freddie Mitchell will try and tell you
try to tell you
/on a mission
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:46 PM
/fixed for modern times
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:46 PM
just because they won a ring? no.
eli is not worth rivers, his equal (if not superior), 2 pro bowl seasons at OLB, and a solid kicker.
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:47 PM
Shove a semicolon straight up yer ass
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:47 PM
/leaves post
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:48 PM
The Giants one only gets a draw because they won the SB. Rivers straight up for Manning could be a draw but Merriman was really freaking good for a while and Kaeding was pretty good, too. I love how neither team really ended up any better in the long run in the Leaf trade
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:49 PM
/High fives Spencer
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:51 PM
but you can’t do that in this instance…you have to compare the player against the players in the trade only. NYG didn’t get strahan or osi or tuck or kiwanuka in the eli/rivers trade.
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:51 PM
nevermind…im an idiot.
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:52 PM
Shove a semicolon straight up yer ass
there’s a curve in those thangs, but ridged, for my pleasure
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:53 PM
So… what if you think you’re going to trade a early pick, but you hesitate and you’re not sure. Then Ozzie Newsome starts screaming obscenities into the phone at you, you pretend to lose connection and the guy you want falls to you anyways?
Is that a Good Win?
/Jerry Angelo
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:54 PM
yeah, if there was no SB victory this would be a really bad loss for NY, but since a SB is the ultimate measure of a team, and in some cases an individual player success, it carries a weight that needs to be considered.
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:54 PM
The idea of trading away a first rounder to move up and get Kyle Boller is really hilarious in hindsight
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:55 PM
I appreciate the work that went into this but I’m not sure how much it means. Its often bad/poorly managed teams that make trades like this, and players that end up on bad teams are more likely to have poor careers.
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:55 PM
Is that a Good Win?
/Jerry Angelo
As long as the league doesn’t make you act like a decent human being about things and that doesn’t bother you any
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:57 PM
yes you can, this whole post has no meaning unless you take into consideration the careers of the players taken with the picks that were traded away. Otherwise, how can you even say one trade was good, bad or a draw?
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:58 PM
Usually love your stuff, but not sure I udnerstand the point of this one. If the teams that traded the multiple picks were likely to take the guys that were eventually taken, I’d get it.
But even with the horrible JJ Stokes deal, Ray Ray went 26. Replace him with John Michaels who went 27 and you can probably argue that San Fran won. So the difference between a horrible loss and a win for SF is Baltimore being smarter/luckier than 25 other teams?
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:58 PM
Not quite topless Brooklyn Decker.
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:59 PM
We’re up to snuff then. Jerry doesn’t believe in karma.
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:59 PM
Not even the great Ron Wolf could escape a few turds here and there…I’m not even sure if he played a second year in the NFL, if he did it wasn’t with the Packers
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:59 PM
Where is the logic using 2nd and 3rd round picks on RBs with good rushers available? I’d like to see that post…
May 3rd, 2011 at 1:59 PM
i am taking into considerating the careers of the players taken…and only them. being on a super bowl team does not make you a better player without merit…so saying eli and phil are a draw, the chargers got more players that were productive with the picks they got.
the rest of the giants don’t have any impact on this.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:00 PM
What’s the rate of success on draft picks? How many first round picks become pro bowlers? How many 4th round picks make significant contributions to the teams that draft them?
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:01 PM
/jizzes in pants
Did you see that one Gerard?
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:01 PM
Fuck yeah! Motherfucking gravatar. Now people can recognize my comments and selectively skip right to them!
/6 month journey is complete
//sheds tear
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:03 PM
I don’t think its very relevant to look at who the team that got the draft choice selected. Otherwise I could make any trade look good as long as I gave the future pick to the 1997-2008 Lions.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:03 PM
Fuck yeah! Motherfucking gravatar.
Little disappointed it’s not Predators related.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:03 PM
Otherwise, how can you even say one trade was good, bad or a draw?
Look at them as if they happened in a vacuum. The Giants organization was good but they might have been even better with Phildo at QB and a few extra players (like Merriman, for instance). It’s OK, even the Ravens are on here for a shitty trade. Vince Wilfork for Kyle Boller is really funny
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:04 PM
Colts got more out of Ugoh than the Niners did out of Balmer. Feels more like a draw to me.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:06 PM
Sorry… now that it works maybe I’ll make it seasonal. It’s me in my Bruschi jersey and my fiance in her Favre jersey that I added an 8 to and changed the name to make it a Sharpe jersey (thinks it’s more insulting to Favre than just replacing it with a new one).
What was the problem you all ask? When I registered to comment, my email was in all caps, and it’s caps sensitive. So whoever said it’s not a wordpress account you need, but rather it goes by email address, that made the difference.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:07 PM
even better wwos, you can change yer name any time you feel like and folks will still wonder who you are. the bonus is you get to see how they really feel about you until you tell them who you are, then they’ll backtrack because oh it’s you
/just like when folks learning sign language get to see what it’s like to be deaf, then they go to a mall pretending to be deaf and people say stupid shit about deaf people
//like that
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:07 PM
Except it’s super dark and the only thing I can make out from the picture is the number 54.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:07 PM
Fixed, for humor
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:08 PM
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:08 PM
So whoever said it’s not a wordpress account you need, but rather it goes by email address, that made the difference
always here for you
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:09 PM
He’s wearing the jersey of America’s favorite lesbian linebacker, Tedy Bruschi
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:09 PM
You sir, are quick on the draw.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:10 PM
Fixed, for
humoraccuracy/Self-deprecation five!
//elevates palmar surface of hand in offering of exchance of points of arbitrary symbolic value
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:11 PM
i’m not sure i understand the point of the exercise. We really should be assessing the key players in this deal, and Nate Kaeding is not one of them. So Rivers and Merriman for the Chargers, and Eli for the Giants. Short term? Chargers won out. But over the long haul? Giants got their franchise QB, won a Super Bowl with him, and have remained competitive in a much more difficult division. Overall, I said this is a push as of right now.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:14 PM
I understand what Lisk is doing, but it seems pretty heavily weighted that a side that has 3 picks will out do a side that only picked one guy. I don’t think this chart means anything. If you trade more picks than you make you’re going to lose the trade. Seems pretty obvious.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:14 PM
i’m not sure i understand the point of the exercise. We really should be assessing the key players in this deal, and Nate Kaeding is not one of them. So Rivers and Merriman for the Chargers, and Eli for the Giants. Short term? Chargers won out. But over the long haul? Giants got their franchise QB, won a Super Bowl with him, and have remained competitive in a much more difficult division. Overall, I said this is a push as of right now.
So if you traded Dan Marino for Trent Dilfer, but you won a Superbowl with Dilfer it’s a push?
What if the Giants had Merriman and Rivers and won 3 Superbowls instead of one with lil Eli??
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:16 PM
I don’t know how about this one?
TRADED
Eric Dickerson, RB
RECEIVED
Greg Bell, RB
Owen Gill, RB
Buffalo No. 1 – 1988 (Gaston Green, RB, 14th overall)
Indianapolis No. 1 – 1988 (Aaron Cox, WR, 20th overall)
Indianapolis No. 2 – 1988 (Fred Strickland, LB, 47th overall)
Buffalo No. 1 – 1989 (Cleveland Gary, RB, 26th overall)
Indianapolis No. 2 – 1989 (Frank Stams, LB, 45th overall)
Buffalo No. 2 – 1989 (Darryl Henley, DB, 53rd overall)
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:17 PM
If you trade more picks than you make you’re going to lose the trade. Seems pretty obvious.
Maybe it’s obvious to us but NFL teams keep doing it
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:18 PM
marino and dilfer isn’t even close to be a comparison to Eli and Rivers. Is Rivers better? Yes. Rivers a Hall of Famer and Eli is shitty? No. Eli is a top 10 QB. Dilfer was never top 20. NEVER.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:18 PM
I think the point is the Giants would have been even more successful with Rivers (who at worst is on par with Eli, but is probably thought of as better by most) AND Merriman. Not trying to get into a “what if” discussion, but if Asante Samuel had held on to the INT in that SB, would it have changed the value the Chargers/Giants got in this trade?
I think Lisk’s research shows that teams that trade future picks mostly “lost” the trade. Good post.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:19 PM
because of the organization, not because of this trade.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:20 PM
and now you’re arguing a point that has nothing to do with the one you’re wrong about.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:20 PM
forgot to copy some of your statment, ty. but in addition, yes, that would have been great. but why are you assuming they would have drafted merrimen the next year? you can’t make that argument. you don’t know what the giants would have finished.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:21 PM
The Pistons drafted Darko and won a title the same year. It was a great pick, regardless of how Wade and Melo turned out.
/Eli Truthers
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:21 PM
false.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:21 PM
but if Asante Samuel had held on to the INT in that SB, would it have changed the value the Chargers/Giants got in this trade?
Yes
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:22 PM
good stuff.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:22 PM
Other than that… sound logic.
Given the type of stuff Lisk usually does, I’m surprised this exercise isn’t based on W-L record of each team following the deals.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:22 PM
YOU CANNOT ASSUME MERRIMEN!!!!!!
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:23 PM
YOU CANNOT ASSUME MERRIMEN!!!!!!
That’s a great slogan
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:23 PM
that’s the problem with this exercise. you cannot assume the team that made the trade would have selected the same players as the team who received the pick.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:23 PM
we didn’t assume the plural of merriman. now you’re just being ridiculous.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:24 PM
YOU CANNOT ASSUME MERRIMEN!!!!!!
But he does a “Lights Out” dance and everything….
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:24 PM
bottom line: are these rated solely on player for player talent and personal success (stats, awards) or the success of the teams they ended up with?
yes
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:25 PM
and you cannot assume that eli on his lonesome is better than rivers, merriman and kaeding using team accomplishments as your basis and yet here we are…
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:25 PM
But not before launching a magic loogie at Stokes.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:25 PM
You can assume value in a 1st round pick though. Even if they get a average starter for 3 years, that plus Rivers is a win over Eli.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:25 PM
YOU CANNOT ASSUME MERRIMEN!!!!!!
But
heTHEY doesa “Lights Out” dance and everything….May 3rd, 2011 at 2:28 PM
Be careful… Tomlinson cries if anyone else is disrespectful enough to mimic his disrespectful dance.
/must come from the coach’d
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:29 PM
i think you can only seriously consider eli vs rivers. i don’t think you can piegeon hole it for a 3-4 year period. i’d give a slight edge to rivers in that regard. but since this was a team game, the giants got their guy they wanted to win a super bowl with. can’t compare it to the darko, because darko had ZERO impact when the pistons won. Eli DID.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:31 PM
and please, don’t bring up a kicker again.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:32 PM
/bristles up and looks around for someone to yell at
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:34 PM
Otherwise, it really makes the trade look bad for the Giants. It’s bad enough they got the 3rd best qb in the draft, but they had to give up another 1st and a 3rd to do it.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:35 PM
i think that’s absolutely retarded.
but this isn’t a team exercise.
you can totally compare it to darko because you’re giving THE TEAM’s credit to an individual player and saying the trade was a draw, when it’s not.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:36 PM
meh. like i said, when that other 1st rounder only has 3-4 productive seasons and then is a flameout, i don’t give a shit.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:37 PM
even then…two pro bowl seasons >>>> NO PLAYER AT ALL.
how are you not understanding this?
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:37 PM
when that other 1st rounder only has 3-4 productive seasons and then is a flameout, i don’t give a shit.
/crosses Oskie off my list for potential GM’s of my NFL franchise
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:43 PM
pro bowl huh? i am not going to argue with you if you are using pro bowl appearances as a reason.
this is a retrospect exercise. would you sign merriman now?
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:44 PM
Ignorance must be such bliss…
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:45 PM
oh, and merriman’s production started to wane the season after he was busted for roids.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:46 PM
fine…howabout this.
ANY PLAYER THAT PLAYED IN THE LEAGUE FOR ANY PERIOD OF TIME >>> no player
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:47 PM
oh, and he still played in the league where as that player you didn’t draft did nothing.
May 3rd, 2011 at 2:47 PM
/waves at gholston
May 3rd, 2011 at 3:03 PM
I definitely think the Patriot trade strategy (which really only works if you pick up extra picks and are able to continually get future picks) is very good.
But, all these trades depend on the players selected. What’s interesting is how many bad selections there are! Even on the “wins” some of the draft picks are not that stellar.
If the pick made in the trade up is sound – then it’s usually a positive. The problem is, most of them were bad and the extra picks give a team a better chance of getting a player who contributes.
The real key (although the Pats poor drafting since Pioli left mitigates this) is to have multiple extra selections – especially in the early rounds. Any review of even the best drafting teams of the past 10, 20, 30 years, reveals that most teams “miss” on most of their draft choices. Some of the best drafting teams (e.g., the Steelers) will have years where they get one draft choice to make a lasting contribution.
But, having more selections allows for multiple misses to not hurt as bad. Suppose team A has 5 picks in the draft. They have a far smaller margin for error on those picks. Team B has 10 picks and say two of those extra selections are in rounds 1-2. They have a significant better shot at landing a great player. They not only have a greater margin for error but also can take a gamble on a player in hopes of hitting it big (like the Pats and Mallett). The risk is not that great when you have another selection in that round.
Further, when a team like the Patriots has multiple selections (who had six selections – two in each round – in the first three rounds this year) they can afford to trade back a good bit and garner extra selections the next year. Sure, they don’t get that pick this year, but they still had five selections in the first three rounds this year – any team would take that! And, they’ll go into next year with two #1s again.
But, evaluating this on the basis of who is drafted is not telling the whole story. If teams consistently draft poorly – then trade or no trade doesn’t matter.
Suppose San Diego had traded up and been able to draft not Ryan Leaf but Peyton Manning (who went #1)? Then, who wins? SD hands down. It really is about landing the right players, regardless of what you do with the pick.
May 3rd, 2011 at 3:20 PM
Dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
2009: Chung, Tate, Edelman, Brace, Pryor, Vollmer… plus Butler if he comes around, McKenzie coming back from injury, and Ornbergher
2010: Gronkowski, Hernandez, McCourty, Mesko, Spikes (all starters as rookies), plus Price, Cunningham, Deaderick
How can you say such a stupid thing without even bothering to wonder if it’s true. I didn’t bother to read beyond that to see if your point was even valid (assuming having multiple selections leads to lots of hits and since an established team most importantly needs to replace depth, is valuable to the team not needing a Peyton Manning).
May 3rd, 2011 at 3:23 PM
McKenzie got released, I forgot that. So we’ll see if he does something in Tampa.
The downside of all those picks is the roster spots. 5 late rounders seems fun until 3 of them go on to play for other teams as rookies.
May 3rd, 2011 at 3:45 PM
Any review of even the best drafting teams of the past 10, 20, 30 years, reveals that most teams “miss” on most of their draft choices.
please link me to your data source. Thanks.
May 3rd, 2011 at 4:16 PM
ANY review. He doesn’t need no stinkin data source!