Is Carlos Delgado a Hall of Famer?
1-liner, All, Baseball, Hall of Fame April 14th. 2011, 2:35pm
Hall of Fame? Carlos Delgado retired after being unable to return from a hip injury in 2009. Does he belong in the HOF? He had a nine-year sustained prime from 1998 to 2006, hitting .290/.402/.576/ with a 150 OPS+ and 38 HR per season. He was a slightly below average defensive first baseman. Overshadowed by some, but most of those contemporaries were using steroids. Hit .351/.442/.757 in his two postseason series. Walked three times in Game 7 of 2006 NLCS. My vote is yes.
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April 14th, 2011 at 2:38 PM
This is a really good question, Duffy. I’m going to look at that reference page real quick and think it over. I’m leaning in, but thinking the BBWAA is not on that wavelength.
Also…
/Team Omar Vizquel HoF
April 14th, 2011 at 2:40 PM
Pronger is officially out for tonight
April 14th, 2011 at 2:40 PM
Using the eye test, I’d say…No.
But that’s the problem with the steroids era: so many roiders put such great numbers that we can’t say whether or not this would have been great numbers for the game at this time.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:41 PM
Put your calculator away nerd
/That Guy’d
Interesting HOF case, kinda puts you in mind of Raffy Palmeiro in that the end numbers are there but you don’t really recall a time where he was considered one of the best in the game (perhaps due to playing for the Blue Jays all those years)…curious what other learned baseball minds think about him
April 14th, 2011 at 2:41 PM
this is why you can’t just use raw numbers…you have to watch.
no fucking way on god’s green fucking earth is carlos delgado a hall of famer.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:42 PM
And he definitely wasnt?
April 14th, 2011 at 2:43 PM
No chance. No chance. No chance. Will never get more than 35% of the vote, if that.
Not a HOFer.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:43 PM
His 2000 season in Toronto was sure fun to watch. Dude was raking everyone.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:45 PM
Well, I guess I would put it this way. If Jeff Bagwell is a HoFer, then so is Delgado.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:45 PM
Damn, good question.
Unfortunately I think the current crop on HOF voters would point to him playing in a hitters park (Rogers Centre) along with him never being an MVP. He really was one of the best at his position offensively for a good stretch as you mentioned above, so maybe that will get him in.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:45 PM
No
April 14th, 2011 at 2:46 PM
Also like Fredo said, you have to compare him with others during the steroid era, so that’ll probably hurt him.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:46 PM
Just a reminder… I am attempting to win this glorious prize tonight
April 14th, 2011 at 2:47 PM
I am loving this Sade remix song featuring Jay Z.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:47 PM
Not a chance in hell.
Also, Bagwell was almost two times better than Delgado throughout their careers.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:47 PM
Not a HOFer. Period. Bagwell was, Delgado was not. Was Delgado one of the top five 1B during that time period? He was borderline the fifth (Pujols, McGuire, Helton, Bagwell, Frank Thomas)
April 14th, 2011 at 2:48 PM
If Carlos Delgado is a HOF’er, so is Shawn Green.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:48 PM
He was. And if he wasn’t, it’s his fault that others were and he didn’t stop them.
/Jeff Pearlmann’d
//Already used that joke today
April 14th, 2011 at 2:49 PM
I saw him hit three home runs against the Royals. Being the game was in KC, we had seats in the lower level. He was a big mother fucker.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:49 PM
Personally? No. Think he will get it though just because of the fact that he wasn’t linked to Roids and the writers will probably use that as a reason to vote him in.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:50 PM
Holy shit… Jeff Bagwell stole 31 bases one season?
April 14th, 2011 at 2:50 PM
Also, Bagwell was almost two times better than Delgado throughout their careers.
/subscribes to newsletter.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:51 PM
And no Delgado is not a Hall of Famer.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:51 PM
So fire.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:51 PM
Bagwell had an career OBP of .408, Delgado was .383. Bagwell stole over 200 bases to Delgado’s 13, and Bagwell was a MUCH better defender (Delgado was awful). Yeah, not the same.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:52 PM
As someone who watched most of his games as a Jay, my eye test says yes but I understand that Toronto players are second-class citizens with most fans. He likely put up his numbers without the help of steroids (body type didn’t vary much over the course of his career) and he only fell short of 500 HR due to injury. I don’t really give a shit about the HoF but I’d have him there ahead of McGwire (juice) and Helton (Coors). Bagwell was better and so was Thomas but he really wasn’t a first basemen.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:52 PM
Do you have a confidence interval to go along with that?
April 14th, 2011 at 2:52 PM
I don’t think you can be definitive on this. You never know which direction the HOF voters will go a few years from now.
/cue the OMG YES I KNOW HE’S NOT GETTING IN!!!!11!!
April 14th, 2011 at 2:53 PM
are you serious? yea…people thought robbie alomar and roy halladay were terrible just cuz they played in toronto.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:54 PM
You present a compelling case. Perhaps I am biased because of Bagwell’s affinity for the Ted Nugent clothing line.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:54 PM
Delgado really wasn’t much better over there than Thomas would have been if they made him play. Love Delgado for a lot of reasons, but he was a liability in the field.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:54 PM
The MVP argument is the dumbest argument in the history of arguments. Sportswriters not recognizing he was great because sportswriters didn’t recognize he was great? Brilliant. Had a quite compelling case for one in 2003.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:54 PM
You present a compelling case. Perhaps I am biased because of Bagwell’s affinity for the Ted Nugent clothing line.
?
April 14th, 2011 at 2:55 PM
Those same people are re-tards. Roy is the man, period.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:55 PM
I’d have him there ahead of McGwire (juice) and Helton (Coors).
What?
Helton 129 hr 492 rbi .291/.392/.480
Delgado 231 765 .283/.380/.537
Away splits for both. I think the Helton/Coors argument is overstated. Esp with Helton as a good defender..
April 14th, 2011 at 2:55 PM
I knew you’d like it!!
April 14th, 2011 at 2:56 PM
I think the last year or so he played in Toronto and his first year as a Met were his best. Unfortunately, that may not be long enough of a stretch to warrant putting him into a “Best 1B of his era” discussion.
As for Bagwell, I’d be afraid of steroids allegations for him than I would Delgado. But that may just be my memory of his stocky body and those gigantic forearms whenever he was at bat.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:56 PM
No, he doesn’t make it in, but he was pretty damn good for a long time.
If there was a hall of “pretty damn good”, he’d be first ballot.
That said, I wouldn’t go on any sort of crying jag if he somehow made it in later because of some change in voter sentiment.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:56 PM
Hey I didn’t say I agreed with it. I’m just using this as a reason because you and I both know it’ll come up. I mean people include the amount of Gold Gloves a player has for God’s sake.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:57 PM
You can’t tell me that thing wasn’t in Ted’s closet at some point, ms.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:59 PM
All-Star teams.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:59 PM
Alomar was different because the team was winning when he was here. Halladay did not get anywhere near the recognition he’s getting now while playing in Toronto. I’m not whining about it but the fact is the Jays haven’t been on national TV in the U.S. for about a decade. If you play here, you have less exposure to the masses.
April 14th, 2011 at 2:59 PM
I am still FLOORED that Jeff Bagwell stole over 200 bases. WHEN DID THIS OCCUR!??!?
April 14th, 2011 at 3:00 PM
I had saw they did something together, but for some reason it just glossed over me (which is weird, because I heart both of them). Thanks for linking it, SG.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:00 PM
I am loving this Sade remix song featuring Jay Z.
Love it!
April 14th, 2011 at 3:01 PM
The NL Central has always sucked.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:01 PM
Back when he was younger and faster…don’t recall watching him back then Cubs fan?
April 14th, 2011 at 3:01 PM
Oh, and no way in hell is Delgado a HOFer
April 14th, 2011 at 3:01 PM
BTW, Craig Biggio had twice the amount of stolen bases of Bagwell with 414. Didn’t remember him being a speedy guy.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:02 PM
So theortical question, who gets into the HOF of players currently playing?
I’ve got the obvious: Pujols, Jeter, Chipper, A-Rod, Halladay,
As soon as you get into the younger players (under 30) I have Mauer, Longoria, Lincecum and a few others.
Tough question.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:02 PM
i beg to differ…here in the US, halladay was a pretty well established entity. almost universally included when people mentioned the top pitchers in the league.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:03 PM
I remember him mash taters all over the Astrodome and Wrigley but not swiping bases.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:04 PM
fuck chipper (not saying he isn’t a HOFer, i just hate the fucker).
that said…mauer, king felix when he leaves seattle after strangling eric wedge and miggy.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:05 PM
Jim Thome, Mo Rivera. I’d be inclined to include Todd Helton in there too.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:05 PM
I hate to be that guy but it’s way too early for most of the players right now.
Ichiro?
Mariano Rivera
April 14th, 2011 at 3:05 PM
Halladay was, many times, the only reason to watch Jays games. People knew he was good.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:06 PM
Shit, forgot about Thome.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:06 PM
So theortical question, who gets into the HOF of players currently playing?
I’ve got the obvious: Pujols, Jeter, Chipper, A-Rod, Halladay,
As soon as you get into the younger players (under 30) I have Mauer, Longoria, Lincecum and a few others.
Tough question.
Mariano, Afraud should be in there as well.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:07 PM
Ichiro?
Mariano Rivera
Would you include Posada on that list? What about Piazza?
April 14th, 2011 at 3:07 PM
Hmm what about Vlad?
April 14th, 2011 at 3:07 PM
Absolutely. I’m trying to think of other absolute locks if they stopped playing right now. Vlad? Thome?
April 14th, 2011 at 3:07 PM
I hate Chipper too, but the guy is still an awesome player.
Agree on Miggy, guy is going to have over 500+ HR
April 14th, 2011 at 3:07 PM
Oh my duckworth.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:08 PM
He’s only 32 and only has 102 wins (BBWAA criteria, not mine) but because of his command, I might put Cliff Lee in the discussion of a possibility. His style of pitching will allow him to pitch until he’s at least 40.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:09 PM
Would you include Posada on that list? What about Piazza?
2 of the best hitting catchers in recent years. Absolutely.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:09 PM
Shit forgot about Mo, Thome and Ichiro. I think that Helton is going to be in the Hall of Very Good, even though I feel he should be a HoF’er.
Vlad is also in that borderline case, but think he should get in.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:10 PM
Posada no. He didn’t hit his stride until he was 28, and while he had a great seven year run (2000-20007) I don’t think he’s good enough for the Hall.
Piazza yes.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:11 PM
Piazza is a no-doubt HoF, but will not get in first ballot b/c some asshole like Lupica is going to talk about backne. Fuck them, Piazza is one of the top five catchers of all time.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:12 PM
That’s right, Posada plays until the year 20,007. Book it.
/Forgot about Cabrera. He’ll probably get in.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:12 PM
It is crazy that we agree with this.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:12 PM
As for Bagwell, I’d be afraid of steroids allegations for him than I would Delgado. But that may just be my memory of his stocky body and those gigantic forearms whenever he was at bat.
This is Bagwell’s biggest problem. Unlike Bonds, McGwire, Palmeiro, et al Bagwell has never been associated with using a banned supplement. He does exhibit the traits of some those who have been found to be users: an increase in body frame and size, a huge spike in offensive output, and injury problems later in his career. But that is all circumstantial evidence at best. But because of when he played he’s associated with it.
This is not to say that I know for a fact that Bagwell did not use HGH, or a steriod, or something, but unlike the others mentioned he has never been associated directly with any evidence of use.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:13 PM
BTW, Craig Biggio had twice the amount of stolen bases of Bagwell with 414. Didn’t remember him being a speedy guy.
Scrap and hustle. That’s what he was full of.
He’s actually now the head baseball coach at my high school.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:13 PM
I saw Lance Berkman stick him in the ass with something during the 2005 WS. Don’t think it was a needle though.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:14 PM
Vlad’s in. He was one of the top hitters in the game from the ages of 23 until 34.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:17 PM
Dude had a howitzer from RF, too.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:19 PM
He didn’t hit his stride until he was 28.
Why does this matter?
April 14th, 2011 at 3:19 PM
I saw Lance Berkman stick him in the ass with something during the 2005 WS. Don’t think it was a needle though.
Did you switch your allegiance to the White Sox for that Series?
April 14th, 2011 at 3:38 PM
Vlad will have a long wait, unless the BBWAA just gets bored not electing anyone. I don’t think he’s “pretty” enough for them, and his career was in too many under the radar cities.
/always scared me when the Sox played a hitter with no strike zone. Like the anti-JDDrew
April 14th, 2011 at 3:38 PM
To answer the question, no freakin’ way is Carlos Delgado a HOFer. At no point was he ever considered one of the greats of the game.
To answer the other questions that have emerged from the comments, and not to overstate things, but does ANYONE really think that Carlos Delgado, Jeff Bagwell and Mike Piazza were “clean” throughout their careers – and especially in their respective primes? While none of them (except maybe Piazza and his backne) have been directly linked to ‘roids – come on. Those guys juiced and it would take an intentionally blind eye to contend otherwise.
but Bagwell and Piazza are HOFers, as much as I dislike Piazza.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:39 PM
I just looked at Guerrero’s stats…. it would be a shame for him not to be elected early on. 400 homers won’t hold the weight it used to obviously, but .319/.382/.562 is pretty hard to ignore.
April 14th, 2011 at 3:42 PM
I said it earlier this week, but I just look at a guy like Pedro and wonder how amazing he’d have been if hitters weren’t juicing. I don’t think anyone today has anything close to his pure stuff. I remember a poll of the best fastball/curve/slider/change etc in the league, and he was first or second in three different categories.
Also wonder if Maddux would have aged a little better, too.
April 14th, 2011 at 7:31 PM
Bagwell yes. Would have said Delgado no, based on his comparison with Jim Rice.