NFL Draft: Phil Simms & Boomer Esiason on Stats vs. the Eye Test

We’ve chronicled Blaine Gabbert’s meteoric rise up the draft boards. What we haven’t looked at is his recent slide as NFL pundits pick apart his numbers. Did you know only 61 of his 301 completions went for more than 15 yards? Were you aware that Blaine Gabbert was only a 44 percent passer on 3rd down? (Andrew Luck was 71%.) Of the many NFL topics I covered in a very free-flowing conversation with Phil Simms and Boomer Esiason, one of them was stats vs. the eye test.
Me: Peter King had a stat that Blaine Gabbert was only a 44% percent passer on 3rd down.
Simms: That means nothing. I could not care less. My face gets red thinking about that stat. WHO CARES! Well get him out of there on 3rd down! Keep him in on 1st and 2nd down! [Ed. I found Simms to be much more sarcastic and witty than I anticipated, as the previous quote illustrates.] You’re not drafting his college coach or his college team. You’re drafting Blaine Gabbert. These numbers … why do I need numbers? I’m going to let my eyes tell me the truth.
I had a great GM tell me once, ‘trust what your eye tells you.’ I just try to judge it between the tape and what I see on TV.
Football is not baseball. Don’t just sit there and tell me about the numbers. Don’t tell me about the college kids and their numbers. I really don’t care. It’s ridiculous. There are too many variables you just can’t judge. In baseball there’s batting – its just them. There are some variables, but it’s not anything like football. QBs have put up good numbers and I didn’t think they were good, but they were on great teams. Colt McCoy should have been the best player in the draft! He hit 78% of his passes in his junior year! He should have been the first player picked. Why aren’t Texas Tech kids drafted high? They are putting up unbelievable numbers. Kingsbury, whatever his name was … Graham Harrell.
What happened to Matt Ryan? Did he lead the nation as a senior with interceptions? How’d that work out? [Ed. Ryan had 19 interceptions as a senior at Boston College, which was tied for 2nd in the country.]
Me: So when you see the stat guys hammer Mark Sanchez for a low-completion percentage, and pump up the fact that he led the league in “dropped interceptions” ….
Esiason: All I can go by is what I see. I don’t worry about dropped interceptions. There are just as many dropped passes as dropped interceptions. Nobody seems to use that argument in favor of Mark. All I can tell you is that when you’re hitting big play after big play on the road in NE, road in Pitt, road in Indy when the game is on the line … that’s all I need to know. All of those guys who write about those stats have never been in that situation and can never truly understand the pressure that is associated with it.
When the pressure rises, he calms down and he seems like he’s in control.
Simms: The stat guys are idiots. I mean it very strongly … Believe what your eye tells you. I have never looked at one QB ever on tape through all the years and then when it’s done, I have never even thought, ‘what were his numbers?’ I never have. It has never even crossed my mind. Blaine Gabbert only completed 44 percent of his passes on 3rd down. Well geez, I better go back and watch all his tapes!
Me: Jake Locker is a guy who put up awful statistics last year at Washington.
Simms: It’s a funny thing … I keep hearing about the double standards when these [draft pundits] come in and talk. They like to say about quarterbacks they “he just knows how to win games.” Locker is an interesting anomaly because they didn’t win and he put up awful statistics. When it all comes down to it, [the stats are] not going to hurt him. I think he’s going in the first half of the first round.
Cris Collinsworth, Boomer Esiason, Nick Faldo, Howie Long, Cal Ripken and Phil Simms announced they would be working together in a series of digital and social media projects under the new name of The Experts Network (TXN). Today the group will announce the official launch of TXNSPORTS.com, which will become the new digital home of the group, providing commentary and behind-the-scenes access for baseball, golf and football. Big Lead Sports will work with the group on their launch event, an NFL Draft preview in New York on Monday night, April 25th. As a lead-in to the event and to draft week, The Big Lead has some exclusive access to Collinsworth, Esiason, Long and Simms to get their thoughts on the NFL Draft. We will be publishing those interviews in the coming weeks, and will be working with TXNSPORTS.com for additional content and special events in the future.


- A.P. on Jalen Rose Leaving Numbers Never Lie, Jemele Hill in as New Co-Host
- The Wayne Fontes Safari on Jalen Rose Leaving Numbers Never Lie, Jemele Hill in as New Co-Host
- VladimirCrouton on Jalen Rose Leaving Numbers Never Lie, Jemele Hill in as New Co-Host
- beardown on Jalen Rose Leaving Numbers Never Lie, Jemele Hill in as New Co-Host
- Flaccid Indigestion on Jalen Rose Leaving Numbers Never Lie, Jemele Hill in as New Co-Host
162 Responses to “NFL Draft: Phil Simms & Boomer Esiason on Stats vs. the Eye Test”
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.






April 13th, 2011 at 3:03 PM
Fuck Stats!!!!1!11!
/in all seriousness, fuck QB rating. Now THAT is a dumb stat.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:04 PM
Pretty good synergy action going on TBL. Need to re-read this again to wrap my mind around Simms’ comments. Wow.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:06 PM
Simms: The stat guys are idiots. I mean it very strongly … Believe what your eye tells you. I have never looked at one QB ever on tape through all the years and then when it’s done, I have never even thought, ‘what were his numbers?’ I never have. It has never even crossed my mind.
He just can’t take a big enough dump on stats and analysis can he?
April 13th, 2011 at 3:06 PM
I enjoyed this very much.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:06 PM
The stat guys are idiots. I mean it very strongly … Believe what your eye tells you. I have never looked at one QB ever on tape through all the years and then when it’s done, I have never even thought, ‘what were his numbers?’ I never have. It has never even crossed my mind
/stands
//applauds
Fantasy football has really ruined what the casual fan thinks of a certain player. If a player isn’t in the top 5 of scoring for a position he’s not a top 5 player to most people. Insanity.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:08 PM
Sigh.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:08 PM
Yeah but what about when I watch Mark Sanchez play quarterback I see a guy who’s pretty mediocre most of the time? It’s nice and all that he’s had a couple strong playoff games but there’s been a lot of football played beyond those
April 13th, 2011 at 3:09 PM
*hastily makes up stats to prove how important stats are, calls everyone who doesnt agree with me morons*
April 13th, 2011 at 3:09 PM
Fantasy football has really ruined what the casual fan thinks of a certain player. If a player isn’t in the top 5 of scoring for a position he’s not a top 5 player to most people. Insanity.
Okay, let’s define stats guys then. I wouldn’t consider my cousin who plays in my fantasy football league but doesn’t know who Julius Peppers is because he is not a receiver or quarterback a “stats guy”.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:09 PM
Phil’s caption is incorrect, he only won 1, Hoss won the other. Unless you are using the John Kyl philosophy.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:09 PM
mark sanchez is still not that good.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:10 PM
He was still a part of two Super Bowl teams…technically Jim McMahon is a two-time Super Bowl champion
April 13th, 2011 at 3:11 PM
Yeah but what about when I watch Mark Sanchez play quarterback I see a guy who’s pretty mediocre most of the time? It’s nice and all that he’s had a couple strong playoff games but there’s been a lot of football played beyond those
mark sanchez is still not that good.
Both of these things.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:11 PM
Lisk must really hate Phil Simms after this.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:11 PM
I found Simms to be much more sarcastic and shitty
/fixed
April 13th, 2011 at 3:12 PM
He was still a part of two Super Bowl teams…technically Jim McMahon is a two-time Super Bowl champion
This reminded me of the Budweiser Super Bowl commercial from about 10 or 15 years ago where it showed a guy who had supposedly been the backup quarterback on every single Super Bowl winning team through the first 25, but never once played.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:12 PM
Big Lead Sports will work with the group on their launch event, an NFL Draft preview in New York on Monday night, April 25th.
Does this mean a live streaming webcast f/Jason Lisk and TheBigLead along with Collinsworth, Long, and Simms? That could be appointment television.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:13 PM
HA!
April 13th, 2011 at 3:14 PM
Phil’s caption is incorrect, he only won 1, Hoss won the other. Unless you are using the John Kyl philosophy.
would you rather it says that Phil Simms earned two championship rings?
April 13th, 2011 at 3:14 PM
Difference between being part of the team and being a SB champion than winning the game. I mean unless you are in the Mark Sanchez led the Jets to the AFCCC his rookie year camp.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:14 PM
Okay, let’s define stats guys then. I wouldn’t consider my cousin who plays in my fantasy football league but doesn’t know who Julius Peppers is because he is not a receiver or quarterback a “stats guy”.
That does define the casual fan though. They have a higher opinion of someone like Schaub over someone like Matt Ryan or Roethlisberger. Most casual fans tend to only watch the team they support. With that information all they have are the local team they watched and the fantasy rankings which is based purely on stats.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:15 PM
This reminded me of the Budweiser Super Bowl commercial from about 10 or 15 years ago where it showed a guy who had supposedly been the backup quarterback on every single Super Bowl winning team through the first 25, but never once played.
in real life, the 3rd string Bills QB got promoted to 2nd string Chargers QB and was on 5 consecutive Super Bowl losing teams. I don’t know his name anymore though.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:17 PM
Difference between being part of the team and being a SB champion than winning the game. I mean unless you are in the Mark Sanchez led the Jets to the AFCCC his rookie year camp.
so how many guys on a given team “win” the super bowl? Do backup offensive linemen who only play on kickoff return “win” the superbowl, or can they not say that? Do guys who get hurt in the NFC championship game and can’t play the superbowl not become superbowl winners if their team wins?
April 13th, 2011 at 3:17 PM
I still don’t understand the Gabbert 3rd down bit from Simms, wouldn’t seeing someone only complete 44% of his 3rd down passes be cause for concern? In the event that he hasn’t seen a whole bunch of Mizzou games such a statistic could come in handy when performing a player evaluation
April 13th, 2011 at 3:17 PM
Those Giants jerseys with the current helmet would equate to uniform bliss.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:18 PM
TO HELL WITH YOUR FANCY NUMBERS YOU PANTYWAIST
/Simms’d
April 13th, 2011 at 3:19 PM
In the event that he hasn’t seen a whole bunch of Mizzou games such a statistic could come in handy when performing a player evaluation
if you haven’t seen a whole bunch of Mizzou games and you are in the media as an analyst, you pretty much have no business “evaluating” Blaine Gabbert. If you do, you are what Phil Simms was talking about. If you run for stats. I think that was his point, but his point could have been that Sanchez > journeyman.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:19 PM
I still don’t understand the Gabbert 3rd down bit from Simms, wouldn’t seeing someone only complete 44% of his 3rd down passes be cause for concern? In the event that he hasn’t seen a whole bunch of Mizzou games such a statistic could come in handy when performing a player evaluation
This. So if Phil Simms never saw you throw a pass, did you even throw a pass?
April 13th, 2011 at 3:20 PM
I’m not following you down the rabbit hole dirt.
Sims has the rinnnnnnnnnnnnngs, all that matters.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:20 PM
He played for Parcells most of his career, so you kind of have to be that way or you won’t survive. The ’86 America’s Game does a good job describing their relationship.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:20 PM
in real life, the 3rd string Bills QB got promoted to 2nd string Chargers QB and was on 5 consecutive Super Bowl losing teams. I don’t know his name anymore though.
Payoso’s favorite Daddy: Gale Gilbert
April 13th, 2011 at 3:21 PM
Jason Lisk dominates a fantasy league full of his cousins who don’t know who Julius Peppers is. There’s some other guys in the league but they all wear velcro shoes, if you catch my meaning.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:22 PM
Lisk must really hate Phil Simms after this.
/company man
April 13th, 2011 at 3:23 PM
Jason Lisk dominates a fantasy league full of his cousins who don’t know who Julius Peppers is. There’s some other guys in the league but they all wear velcro shoes, if you catch my meaning.
This is true, whether you mean old men or young kids.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:23 PM
I’m not following you down the rabbit hole dirt.
one player doesn’t “win” the superbowl. Teams win the superbowl. So Phil Simms didn’t “win” any superbowls, but he was twice an NFL champion with the Giants.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:23 PM
Tom Brady tears up over not being given credit for winning the AFC that one year Bledsoe quarterbacked most of the game
April 13th, 2011 at 3:24 PM
I read this in a Jesse Spano on drugs voice…and then I imagined him collapsing into Zack Morris’ arms.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:24 PM
LOL
Also – Im sure the FO guys also have ‘dropped passes’ stat too. I’m befuddled how Sanchez aces an ‘eye test’. Must have selective eyes.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:24 PM
First question should have been: Why are you giving your opinion on talent evaluation, Pheel? You’re a TV analyst.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:24 PM
Fantasy leagues with defensive position players fail the eye test.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:26 PM
I’m befuddled how Sanchez aces an ‘eye test’.
very nice, CJ.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:26 PM
Also – Im sure the FO guys also have ‘dropped passes’ stat too. I’m befuddled how Sanchez aces an ‘eye test’. Must have selective eyes.
I was going to say that my eyes see him sailing throws over players and saw how poorly he played in the game at New England. He is inconsistent. People with eyes also record things like incomplete passes.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:28 PM
Fantasy leagues with defensive position players fail the eye test.
I am starting a fantasy league this year, but it’s all about net punting. You’ll be allowed to flex in defensive ends and a sack equals 50 net yards on a single punt.
You’ll be forced to draft offensive players and they will just have to sit on your bench. If you ever mention to another member of the league an offensive stat, you lose 7 net punting yards.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:29 PM
Lisk you are my hero. Also, I’ll miss you.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:30 PM
your face is always red phil SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEMS.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:30 PM
Simmons does this in his Midwest Coast League.
/can’t even remember the guy who got all pissy that day
April 13th, 2011 at 3:32 PM
I’m confused how he passes the eye test then. because when I watched him play defenses with a pulse, he sucked ass.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:32 PM
sweet jesus is that a ton o’ smug.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:32 PM
Ive recently discovered I have psychic powers. For instance, I can see that the next post will be about who will host the 9 AM Sportscenter.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:32 PM
I thought Norm Macdonald killed it last night. It’s about time someone took MJ to task for that Hitler mustache.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:32 PM
mark sanchez is still not that good.
you obviously have never seen him play
April 13th, 2011 at 3:32 PM
can’t even remember the guy who got all pissy that day
so you’re forgetting the guy who was actually stealing the jokes, and then getting defensive about it? I dont’ remember either.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:33 PM
Cris Collinsworth, Boomer Esiason, Nick Faldo, Howie Long, Cal Ripken and Phil Simms announced they would be working together in a series of digital and social media projects under the new name of The Expert Network.
sweet jesus is that a ton o’ smug.
This will be known as the FIGJAM Network
April 13th, 2011 at 3:33 PM
my eye tells me that the only reason people still remember phil simms the player is because of a stat (his consecutive completions in the SB).
im all for forgetting the stats…because that’d mean id never have to think about simms on the field ever again.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:34 PM
This entire thing is just awesome.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:35 PM
I know right? How timely! and what about that video of the guy dancing that get hit by an ice cream truck HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! good thing a show on the EXACT same channel didnt have a bit about it just a few months ago! That’d just be lame then!
April 13th, 2011 at 3:35 PM
I hope he gets emotional during the off-season about this.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:36 PM
Hasn’t this already been attempted? Couldn’t afford the MVP.com domain?
April 13th, 2011 at 3:36 PM
Can’t stop laughing.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:36 PM
his consecutive completions in the SB
it was completion percentage for a superbowl. He was either 22 or 23 out of 25.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:37 PM
The many heads of the FO hydra are rising up against TBL on Twitter.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:37 PM
In the next interview can you ask Boomer what it felt like being replaced by Dennis Miller on MNF?
April 13th, 2011 at 3:37 PM
22, that motherfucker.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:37 PM
just because someone else agrees with you that the Earth is flat, doesn’t mean its true…
April 13th, 2011 at 3:38 PM
My shenanigans are cheeky and fun. Your shenanigans are cruel and tragic.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:38 PM
THAT’S it…
regardless, i fucking hate phil simms.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:38 PM
I hope he gets emotional during the off-season about this.
/high five
I’m one of the few non Jets fans that thinks Sanchez will be a good QB for his career. Lets not forget he has only been in the league for 2 years.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:38 PM
“Stat guys” have a higher opinion of Ben than Schaub because his stats are better. And other than health, how is Matt Ryan better than Matt Schaub?
Do people not realize that the individuals who record these stats watch every play of every game?
April 13th, 2011 at 3:38 PM
/tips hat
April 13th, 2011 at 3:38 PM
This is awesome
April 13th, 2011 at 3:39 PM
I’m befuddled how Sanchez aces an ‘eye test’. Must have selective eyes.
It’s tough trying to figure out if the girl’s legal or not.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:40 PM
This is funny
But this is funnier.
+ 1 Jersey
April 13th, 2011 at 3:40 PM
Phil Simms does not make a convincing argument for his position regarding stats.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:40 PM
Unrelated topic: When a girl mentions to you she has a friend that has been blessed with a huge rack and then provides a picture where the said rack cannot be viewed is a violation of friendship code right?
April 13th, 2011 at 3:40 PM
You mean the game where he threw 3 td passes and sent the Patriots monkey asses home from the playoffs? Whose eyes are being selective now?
April 13th, 2011 at 3:40 PM
I’m not saying that numbers ahve zero place in evaluations, but what about this… Say that Mizzou gets stuck in a lot of 3rd and longs, meaning that Gabbert has to take a bigger chance on a long pass downfield to make up the yardage. Obviously he would complete a lower percentage of passes than a QB throwing more 3rd and 2-5 yard passes. WR’s also account for a QB’s percentage as well.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:40 PM
Cris Collinsworth, Boomer Esiason, Nick Faldo, Howie Long, Cal Ripken and Phil Simms announced they would be working together in a series of digital and social media projects under the new name of The Expert Network.
sweet jesus is that a ton o’ smug.
This will be known as the FIGJAM Network
You could pretty much put any six names of former athletes together and they will be hated by the internet genius society
April 13th, 2011 at 3:40 PM
with good reason…as does anyone who’s that vehemently against further educating one’s self about a certain subject.
nobody’s suggesting we hold the super bowl on a spreadsheet, ok? but to call people “stupid” for breaking down every single play? CMON.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:40 PM
Oh, as for Gabbert. Here is my take if you care, because I watched him more than Simms. I was actually on Team Gabbert for the last two years from the get go, and thought he was an upgrade over Chase Daniel, which is borderline blasphemous around here. I think if Gabbert had played with Jeremy Maclin and company and Daniel had played with this year’s receivers, more would see that.
The downfield receivers this year s-u-c-k-e-d. Maclin was awesome and still is.
I am not concerned about this completion rate downfield because I didn’t see accuracy issues downfield. I saw getting open issues. Nebraska game was the worst. No one was open, ever.
He’s got the arm and I think the accuracy to succeed in the NFL. My concern is that he had a tendency to desert the pocket and leak out too soon, feeling pressure that wasn’t there yet. In the NFL, you need to feel pressure and slide or step up. If he fails, I think that will be why. But I’m not concerned about him completing passes > 15 yards downfield with NFL caliber receivers.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:42 PM
im not sure…lets try.
carl lewis, mike soscia, greg maddux, anthony munoz, terry cummings and tom kite.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:42 PM
Yours. He’s not all bad and he’s not all good. The poster child of inconsistency.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:42 PM
You mean the game where he threw 3 td passes and sent the Patriots monkey asses home from the playoffs? Whose eyes are being selective now?
He’s inconsistent. Agree or disagree? What do your eyes tell you? Geesh.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:43 PM
I sent TBL an email once a long time ago explaining what their game charters did.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:43 PM
Any day KC beats those fag ass Twins is a good day……oh, and fuck Mark Sanchez or something.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:43 PM
Oh, as for Gabbert. Here is my take if you care, because I watched him more than Simms. I was actually on Team Gabbert for the last two years from the get go, and thought he was an upgrade over Chase Daniel, which is borderline blasphemous around here. I think if Gabbert had played with Jeremy Maclin and company and Daniel had played with this year’s receivers, more would see that.
The downfield receivers this year s-u-c-k-e-d. Maclin was awesome and still is.
I am not concerned about this completion rate downfield because I didn’t see accuracy issues downfield. I saw getting open issues. Nebraska game was the worst. No one was open, ever.
He’s got the arm and I think the accuracy to succeed in the NFL. My concern is that he had a tendency to desert the pocket and leak out too soon, feeling pressure that wasn’t there yet. In the NFL, you need to feel pressure and slide or step up. If he fails, I think that will be why. But I’m not concerned about him completing passes > 15 yards downfield with NFL caliber receivers.
shutup, stat nerd.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:43 PM
Must have been too long, lame, and unfunny
April 13th, 2011 at 3:43 PM
my eyes tell me that this corned beef and pastrami sandwich with swiss, cole slaw on rye that’s been grilled in butter only has 200 calories.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:43 PM
“Stat guys” have a higher opinion of Ben than Schaub because his stats are better. And other than health, how is Matt Ryan better than Matt Schaub?
Do people not realize that the individuals who record these stats watch every play of every game?
Schaub puts up better yards and TDs than Ben. Of course someone who puts up the stats watches every game but that doesn’t mean the people who only see that stats do. So if I read a box score after some cricket game that means I watched the whole game?
April 13th, 2011 at 3:43 PM
not a violation, but something you can call her out on and demand a better picture with cleavage to make up for the tease.
unless she really wants you to check out her rack and not her friends.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:45 PM
It isn’t until the last paragraph from Simms where he says anything worthwhile. The rest of the time he’s arguing with people who only exist in the minds of people who get confused by acronyms.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:45 PM
My, my, my aren’t we snarky today. It’s the first episode. Lot’s of stuff to talk about. Do you understand that?
April 13th, 2011 at 3:45 PM
Probably one of the Steelers fans.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:46 PM
carl lewis, mike soscia, greg maddux, anthony munoz, terry cummings and tom kite.
You were on a roll until Scoscia
April 13th, 2011 at 3:46 PM
I think so. Why even mention the rack if you can’t view it.
Speaking of big racks
/for old times sake
April 13th, 2011 at 3:46 PM
OK, that’s wrong. I just remembered hate acronyms too.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:46 PM
my eyes tell me that this corned beef and pastrami sandwich with swiss, cole slaw on rye that’s been grilled in butter only has 200 calories.
Phone has an app that will tell you the calories in a meal by just the picture.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:46 PM
You immediately brought up the worst game he played this season as an example to prove a point and make yourself feel good. But whatever…
April 13th, 2011 at 3:46 PM
I’m one of the few non Jets fans that thinks Sanchez will be a good QB for his career. Lets not forget he has only been in the league for 2 years.
I don’t hate him. I think he’s got a chance. He needs to get more accurate to be more consistent, whether that’s getting better at consistency of delivery or something else. Some guys have improved their completion percentage over time, because it also has to do with knowing where and where not to go. If he does that, he can be a pro bowler. If he doesn’t, and continues to complete in the low 50′s, he will stay inconsistent and need a great supporting cast. I don’t think that’s a controversial statement.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:46 PM
OMG!! Suspend him, suspend him!!! How dare you!
April 13th, 2011 at 3:46 PM
So if I read a box score after some cricket game that means I watched the whole game?
in cricket they play matches, not games. Gawd.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:47 PM
LMAO
April 13th, 2011 at 3:47 PM
I DON’T NEED THOSE FUCKING STATS. I USED THE EYE TEST.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:47 PM
The Expert Network? Really?
/face palm
A former player who doesn’t like the use of statistics?
Shocking.
/not at all.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:48 PM
Shawon Dunston, World B. Free, Mike Tomczak, Alberto Tomba, Pete Weber Jr. and Butterbean.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:48 PM
By the way Fraudchez still sucks. I can see it with my eyes.
/F-R-A-U-D-S FRAUDS FRAUDS FRAUDS!
//has nothing to add
April 13th, 2011 at 3:49 PM
PDW!!!!
April 13th, 2011 at 3:49 PM
And with that goal, Inter’s terrible year just keeps on getting shittier.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:50 PM
This made me laugh more than it should have.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:50 PM
in cricket they play matches, not games. Gawd.
Who the fuck cares?
/Nobody
April 13th, 2011 at 3:50 PM
Most players probably can’t count to 20, so it doesn’t surprise me that advanced math aka statistics is hard for them to comprehend.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:51 PM
Phone has an app that will tell you the calories in a meal by just the picture.
I DON’T NEED THOSE FUCKING STATS. I USED THE EYE TEST.
I just lost it right there
April 13th, 2011 at 3:51 PM
Pretty much copying the Eagles playbook to mediocrity:
Fat genius coach: check
Loathed fanbase: check
Multiple cg appearances: check
Minority overhyped QBs: check
April 13th, 2011 at 3:51 PM
These would make great weekend posts.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:52 PM
I wouldn’t call Andy a genius in any right. But yes, sounds like the Jets and Eagles are set for similar paths.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:53 PM
This isn’t even remotely, and I do mean remotely, true. If anything, Roethlisberger is valued MORE by the casual fan, than by the dialed-in observer. I could pick 100 random casual football fans off the street in the next hour, and at least 90 would say Ben is a better QB than Schaub.
You may have some sort of a valid point about how fantasy football has skewed certain opinions…but you picked an awful comparison to illustrate it.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:54 PM
I don’t hate him. I think he’s got a chance. He needs to get more accurate to be more consistent, whether that’s getting better at consistency of delivery or something else. Some guys have improved their completion percentage over time, because it also has to do with knowing where and where not to go. If he does that, he can be a pro bowler. If he doesn’t, and continues to complete in the low 50′s, he will stay inconsistent and need a great supporting cast. I don’t think that’s a controversial statement.
No that’s fine and you’re right. However, most people just assume Sanchez sucks and that he will always suck. If he is still playing at the same level in 3 years then yeah he won’t ever be a pro bowl caliber quarterback. It’s just too early to assume that and many people have.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:55 PM
The only problem is I can’t hold up an empty box and call it the Jets superbowl trophy case.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:55 PM
Sub in Tommy Morrison for Butterbean, and I’m buying.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:55 PM
Wait……There’s a group for this?
April 13th, 2011 at 3:55 PM
Doubtful since she dates one of my best friends. I don’t think I’m getting a follow-up picture. Rats.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:57 PM
Touche. Won’t argue that the Eagles don’t have any superbowl trophies.
/1960
April 13th, 2011 at 3:58 PM
This isn’t even remotely, and I do mean remotely, true. If anything, Roethlisberger is valued MORE by the casual fan, than by the dialed-in observer. I could pick 100 random casual football fans off the street in the next hour, and at least 90 would say Ben is a better QB than Schaub.
You may have some sort of a valid point about how fantasy football has skewed certain opinions…but you picked an awful comparison to illustrate it.
Well maybe you are right that it is a bad comparison. Most people used to think Ben was very overrated. That was before Superbowl 43 though. I used Matt Ryan as well in my first comparison. I think Ryan is a better QB than Schaub but many people wouldn’t agree with based off Schaub’s stats.
April 13th, 2011 at 3:58 PM
my eyes tell me that this corned beef and pastrami sandwich with swiss, cole slaw on rye that’s been grilled in butter only has 200 calories.
your ass will tell you different.
/drooling, over the sandwich
April 13th, 2011 at 3:58 PM
Bednarik should have been flagged for delay of game holding Taylor down!
April 13th, 2011 at 3:59 PM
Always gotta go there with Eagles fans, don’t you?
/shakes fist
//cries into Mike Quick jersey
April 13th, 2011 at 3:59 PM
Concrete Charlie. Legend.
April 13th, 2011 at 4:02 PM
You know, you CAN combine stats and eye tests. They’re not mutually exclusive. They don’t have to be held at opposite ends of the bar.
April 13th, 2011 at 4:03 PM
Stat guys love to tout that fantasy QB Aaron Rodgers because he puts up great numbers, yet to me he doesn’t pass the eye test. He can’t big games or close games. No way that guy is a top 5 QB.
/idiots in 2010
April 13th, 2011 at 4:04 PM
You know, you CAN combine stats and eye tests. They’re not mutually exclusive. They don’t have to be held at opposite ends of the bar.
But you can’t argue over that.
/You’re right
April 13th, 2011 at 4:04 PM
Well maybe you are right that it is a bad comparison. Most people used to think Ben was very overrated. That was before Superbowl 43 though. I used Matt Ryan as well in my first comparison. I think Ryan is a better QB than Schaub but many people wouldn’t agree with based off Schaub’s stats.
Ben is one of the most unique quarterbacks of all time. He takes so many sacks, but also extends and makes so many big plays because he is willing to do that.
He is overrated by the rings and wins crowd. He is underrated by the total yards crowd. He has almost always had one of the best YPA in the league. If people look at things like YPA – sack yards and first downs created etc, he’s pretty properly rated in the top 5, but not at the very top.
April 13th, 2011 at 4:05 PM
Schaub puts up better yards and TDs than Ben. Of course someone who puts up the stats watches every game but that doesn’t mean the people who only see that stats do.
But you can get an idea from looking at the Texans offensive and defensive stats of why they didn’t make the playoffs last year: the offense is good, the defense is atrocious.
April 13th, 2011 at 4:06 PM
I know Schaub is better qb than Matt “Captain checkdown” Ryan just by watching him. And remarkably the stats agree. Weird how the stats and my eyes agree on something.
April 13th, 2011 at 4:07 PM
Big Ben – Overrated as a winner. Underrated as a QB. Rated correctly as a person.
April 13th, 2011 at 4:08 PM
You could pretty much put any six names of former athletes together and they will be hated by the internet genius society
Wait……There’s a group for this?
No, this is the kind of thing that old people make up if you don’t agree with them
April 13th, 2011 at 4:10 PM
He is overrated by the rings and wins crowd. He is underrated by the total yards crowd. He has almost always had one of the best YPA in the league. If people look at things like YPA – sack yards and first downs created etc, he’s pretty properly rated in the top 5, but not at the very top.
That is fair. I just don’t need stats to be able to tell he is a top 5 quarterback. I have no problem using stats when evaluating a player but its not the most important thing. In team sports so much more go into if a play works or not and that affects the stats. DTs and Oline are basically stat free yet impact the game as much if not more than most players.
April 13th, 2011 at 4:11 PM
I remember watching golf with my dad as a kid and him hating on tom kite all the time.
tommy morrison is a renowned douchebag around these parts.
April 13th, 2011 at 4:13 PM
I know Schaub is better qb than Matt “Captain checkdown” Ryan
I would disagree and I think Ryan is a better QB. I can’t really argue with anyone when the “captain checkdown” nickname comes out haha
April 13th, 2011 at 4:16 PM
Based on what? Anyway you can articulate why you feel that way?
April 13th, 2011 at 4:17 PM
Based on what? Anyway you can articulate why you feel that way?
‘Ryan’ looks prettier on the back of a jersey than ‘Schaub’ does.
April 13th, 2011 at 4:24 PM
I like to hold stats in my hand and feel them. Then I eye test the shit out of them
April 13th, 2011 at 4:30 PM
Based on what? Anyway you can articulate why you feel that way?
‘Ryan’ looks prettier on the back of a jersey than ‘Schaub’ does.
Well other than that yes. In the offense that each quarterback is asked to run I feel Ryan is more successful in his offense as opposed to Schaub. On the eye test side of things it appears Ryan goes through is progression quicker and gets the ball to the right receiver more often(which can be debated since obviously nobody outside of the team knows his correct progressions). On the stats side Ryan has a much better Yard per completion and a lower interception per pass attempt ratio. Also take into account Ryan is only entering his 4th year in the league and Schaub his 8th. Ryan will keep getting better while Schaub will not. Schaub also fumbles more.
April 13th, 2011 at 4:49 PM
I would love for once, just once, TBL to actually engage a stats guy in a legitimate conversation. But I guess that’s the same as hoping he’d actually legitimately entertain someone who is against his “pay the playoffs” stance as well. I guess it’s easier to aggregate “yes men.”
And FWIW, I think stats do a great job of showing Mark Sanchez as a mediocre QB. It’s exactly what my eyes tell me.
April 13th, 2011 at 4:50 PM
If this is your way of saying Ryan checks if Roddy White is covered, then dumps off to RB/TE, than yes he does this faster than Schaub looks for the open receiver I guess.
I think Schaub is more accurate and better at reading the defense. He throws down field more, with more success judging from his YPA. I would still rank Schaub higher based on what he has shown he can do. That being said they are both fringe top 10 QBs and I would build a team around either.
April 13th, 2011 at 4:56 PM
If this is your way of saying Ryan checks if Roddy White is covered, then dumps off to RB/TE, than yes he does this faster than Schaub looks for the open receiver I guess.
I think Schaub is more accurate and better at reading the defense. He throws down field more, with more success judging from his YPA. I would still rank Schaub higher based on what he has shown he can do. That being said they are both fringe top 10 QBs and I would build a team around either.
Well like you said we are debating QBs who aren’t that far from each other in ability at this point. Ryan will end up being better in my opinion and is now. Sometimes Ryan checks down but there is nothing wrong with that if that is what the coaches are asking him to do. Which based on the offense is probably true. Sometimes executing a gameplan knocks down opinions on a player and it shouldn’t. I’m not being anti Schaub though.
April 13th, 2011 at 4:57 PM
No, this is the kind of thing that old people make up if you don’t agree with them
Says the douchebag who doesnt agree with the guy the post is written about, but I’m the hater.
April 13th, 2011 at 4:59 PM
i have engaged them many times. i will continue to engage.
fair opinion to have. we disagree. it’s perfectly fine to disagree. two years, two AFC title game trips. 4 playoff road wins.
April 13th, 2011 at 5:08 PM
fair opinion to have. we disagree. it’s perfectly fine to disagree. two years, two AFC title game trips. 4 playoff road wins.
He is also going to improve which people fail to realize.
April 13th, 2011 at 5:10 PM
So he’s a mediocre QB with an excellent defense and running game?
April 13th, 2011 at 5:11 PM
He is? This has to happen? What if he regresses?
April 13th, 2011 at 5:12 PM
And sometimes teams game plan to the QB’s strengths (and weaknesses). I only used Ryan because you had him in your initial example and you indicated he was better than Schaub based only on what you had seen.
Sounds like somebody can’t win a big game.
April 13th, 2011 at 5:14 PM
So he’s a mediocre QB with an excellent defense and running game?
The Ravens have all that and only 2 playoff wins and no AFC title games the last 2 years.
April 13th, 2011 at 5:16 PM
I don’t think that is what people have a problem with. I think it has more to do with how much room for improvement he has. The idea that Sanchez won those playoff games as opposed to the Jets winning it probably grates on people. I like Sanchez and to be honest think Schotty holds him back a bit. I think he can be Eli light, which isn’t a knock on him.
April 13th, 2011 at 5:16 PM
If he wasn’t on your Jets, you’d say he couldn’t get over the hump with a league-best running game and one of the best defenses in the league.
And regarding engaging stat guys, when? Over Twitter? Or in a snarky post? When have you ever engaged on in a legitimate discussion such as this, given them a forum like you did to Simms and Esiason?
Maybe Football Outsiders or KC Joyner (who I don’t like) wouldn’t generate the “buzz” of Boomer and Simms, but I think it would be at least more interesting that just having two guys spout off babble that isn’t interesting or useful.
This is an interesting debate to have; it’s too bad it’s alway relegated to the comment section.
April 13th, 2011 at 5:17 PM
He is? This has to happen? What if he regresses?
Why would he regress other than injury?
And sometimes teams game plan to the QB’s strengths (and weaknesses). I only used Ryan because you had him in your initial example and you indicated he was better than Schaub based only on what you had seen.
Oh that is true. He is much more successful through 3 years than Schaub. Protects the ball better and still has a higher yards per completion. Lets agree to disagree because I’m on my way to the bar and as we know TBL mobile sucks.
April 13th, 2011 at 5:21 PM
Sure except Schaub has a much higher ypc. Not sure where you get Ryan having a higher one. His is pretty mediocre. Enjoy the bar.
April 13th, 2011 at 5:22 PM
Let me put it a different way: what if this is as good as he is?
There are no guarantees that he, or any player, is simply going to improve the longer they’re in the league. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t, but it’s no certainty.
April 13th, 2011 at 5:28 PM
I’m also not one of the people here who despises the Jets or Mark Sanchez or New York or Rex Ryan or knishes or foot fetish sites or what have you.
It’s simply the notion, as BrawnyTom mentioned, that somehow Sanchez was an outsize actor in his team’s recent successes; that if they hadn’t experienced his brand of top-level quarterbacking, they never would have made it as far as they did.
I just think that’s baloney. That team is fucking loaded. You’d get everything Mark Sanchez has given you plus some extra if, say, Kyle Orton was taking the snaps. And yet Orton is the object of TBL’s eternal scorn.
April 13th, 2011 at 5:43 PM
They’re sorry they got eliminated by the same teams that knocked out the Jets a round earlier
April 13th, 2011 at 5:47 PM
What say you Football Outsiders?
April 13th, 2011 at 6:08 PM
100% of the times that I watched Blaine Gabbert play the thought of him being an NFL QB didnt cross my mind once.
/kind of a stat
April 13th, 2011 at 6:27 PM
me too. Every time people who aren’t smart at all take a dump on statistical analysis it lends stats more credence.
April 13th, 2011 at 10:12 PM
i’m looking for a stat on lawrence taylor