Ranking the NFL Head Coaches (Part 1)
ESPN released a ranking of coaches yesterday. I’m going to do rankings in response, but let me explain what I am doing. I’m not doing a list of past accomplishments only. You don’t need me to make that list. Go look at career records and Super Bowl titles and playoff appearances. Put the young guys and the new guys at the bottom because they haven’t done anything yet. Put guys like Coughlin and Shanahan in the top 10, like ESPN did.
No, I am trying to make an honest list of what coaches I would take in order in a coaches draft, if I wanted someone to coach my fictional league average team for the next 3 seasons, provide leadership, give input on personnel, make strategy decisions and game manage, manage personalities in the locker room and in the assistant coaching staff, and oversee the assistants. Is this subjective? Oh yeah, you bet it is. I’m trying to use some history as my guide, but it is certainly subjective. Here is 1-16:
- Bill Belichick (age 59). Bill is still the best coach in the game, has turned this roster over at several key positions, and is still producing winning teams year in and year out. He’s aggressive and smart. He can coach my team.
- Mike Tomlin (age 39). What’s not to like here? He’s still young, he is controlled, he generally manages a game well, and motivates his players. A star.
- Sean Payton (age 48). Sometimes he outsmarts himself, but he can do that because he does so many good things. The end of the first half and start of the second of SB XLIV was a strategic mismatch, and he went aggressively to win. That’s what I want.
- Rex Ryan (age 49). He can motivate like few can, and players love him. He can design a defense. He’s worked with a more limited offense and still advanced a team to a championship game.
- Mike McCarthy (age 48). He worked through the transition from Favre to Rodgers, and he held the team together through several key injuries this year to win a Super Bowl. He can occasionally make a game management error, but is also one of the best play callers on offense.
- John Harbaugh (age 49). He has made the playoffs all three years as a coach, and seems in control at all times. He knows when to let the veterans go and how to manage the young players.
- Andy Reid (age 53). Yes, he can make horrible clock management decisions, which is why he’s not higher. But he’s had his team in the playoffs in 9 of 12 seasons (best of any coach with 5+ years) and is one of the best offensive playcallers, handles players pretty well, and does a good job of letting his defensive coordinators do their thing.
- Mike Smith (age 52). I was tempted to have him higher, I love Smith as a coach. He’s controlled yet aggressive and seems to have the team on the same page. Detractors will point to his 0-2 playoff record, but he’s got the Schottenheimer effect working. The teams overachieved because of his coaching in the first place.
- Jim Harbaugh (age 48). So the top 8 are pretty much the top couple tiers for me, then it becomes more question marks for me. This is the spot for me to take a chance on a rising star who has never coached yet in the NFL but has all the pedigree. I made fun of him being the best coach in the NFL after his contract, but here is where I take him. The college coach thing is way, way overstated. I’ll get into the failure rates of all new coaches, but let’s just say for now that coaches who were NFL coordinators aren’t exactly devoid of Cam Camerons, Marty Morningwhegs, or Rich Kotites. In comparison, massive hits like Jimmy Johnson, Bill Walsh and company more than offset the Steve Spurriers and Nick Sabans. And I don’t think Harbaugh is mailing it in like Spurrier.
- Raheem Morris (age 35). Another upside play, Morris is young and in his second season turned the Bucs around. He is charismatic and can motivate his players. I know it seems like I was a “hater” last year because Tampa Bay was overvalued by their easy schedule, but he definitely showed that he could handle the job, make tough decisions, and didn’t exactly make a bad call with Josh Freeman.
- Lovie Smith (age 53). Smith gets a lot of heat for someone that is still in prime coaching age and has been reasonably successful. Sure, he can screw up a challenge with the best of them. He also does a pretty good job at managing personalities, let’s his coordinators do their jobs, and is a calm demeanor that handles the locker room.
- Ken Whisenhunt (age 49). Whisenhunt’s star diminished in 2010, but he was able to accomplish more than Don Coryell and Dennis Green did while being saddled with the Bidwells as owners.
- Jason Garrett (age 45). He did a good job managing the circus in Dallas last year. I still think some of that was regression luck (the Cowboys weren’t as bad as they showed under Wade), but he has a good managerial style and demeanor that projects well as a head coach. Still, his tenure last year suggests he is a safer pick than a random brand new head coach.
- Tom Coughlin (age 65).Obviously, he would be much higher based on accomplishments, but I’m grading going forward. He is the oldest coach in the league by five years. Dick Vermeil is the oldest to win a Super Bowl at age 63. Shula and Landry were retiring at this age, their best years behind them. Weeb Ewbank won a Super Bowl at age 61, same as Coughlin, but never got it back. George Halas won a championship at age 68, but was barely over .500 the other 7 seasons past age 65. Coughlin’s a safer bet to be at least good, which is why he is near the middle for me, but age matters, and I can’t put him top 10 because of the late season collapse combined with his age over the next few years.
- Todd Haley (age 44). He’s fiery, both a positive and negative. He’s toward the Bill Belichick end of the aggressiveness scale in fourth downs. He also has had three offensive coordinators (including himself) since he was hired. I think he still has some upside if he can control his emotions, but I have him lower than Raheem because of some of that volatility.
- Mike Shanahan (age 59). Shanahan has coached for 17 years. He is now 12 years removed from his last Super Bowl, closing in on age 60, and not exactly emerging. He has only won a division 3 times in those 17 years and made the playoffs 7 times, which is roughly league average. He’s a great playcaller, but if he wants control, he can’t have it. He is not good at player evaluation on the defensive end and runs through defensive coordinators like John Daly runs through wives. If you want to be a control freak, it’s fine if you are the best. I’d rather have a younger coach, though, otherwise.
[photo via Getty]

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338 Responses to “Ranking the NFL Head Coaches (Part 1)”
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April 6th, 2011 at 1:44 PM
No real complaints (although I think McCarthy gets a bit too much credit; he’s often a strategic buffoon) other than that I don’t think Red Jesus belongs anywhere in the top half.
Glad to see Jim Caldwell absent, though.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:44 PM
Reading this list reminds me that there are a bunch of terrible coaches in the NFL.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:44 PM
Todd Haley (age 44).
Homer.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:45 PM
Even as a Steeler fan I cannot put Tomlin near the top of a best coaches list. Don’t get me wrong, I love Tomlin — but I never feel like he’s doing anything other than motivating and managing the team, not managing the game itself.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:46 PM
I think I’ll be putting Andy Reid just a smidge higher. I like Rex too, but I’d rather have Andy Reid coaching my football team.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:46 PM
/waits for Giants fans to show up all pissy
April 6th, 2011 at 1:46 PM
I think you can great value in the lower part of the first round with Pete Carroll
April 6th, 2011 at 1:47 PM
never feel like he’s doing anything other than motivating and managing the team,
huge part of the job. see, jackson, phil
April 6th, 2011 at 1:47 PM
9. Jim Harbaugh (age 48).
well, he is undefeated, i guess
April 6th, 2011 at 1:47 PM
The Schwartz is not strong with this Lisk list.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:47 PM
/waits for Giants fans to show up all pissy
As Lisk mentioned it’s a subjective list. Only fair comparison between Coughlin and Ryan is to wait until they’re both finished coaching.
/Jaguars fan
April 6th, 2011 at 1:48 PM
Man Lovie jumped about 15 people after one year, eh Bears fans?
April 6th, 2011 at 1:49 PM
Jim Schwart too low.
Fat fuck Mccarthy too high.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:49 PM
Reaching a conference title game is the new barometer of ultimate success.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:50 PM
Didn’t even see Lovie Smith (#11)?!?!?!, I call Bullshit…
April 6th, 2011 at 1:50 PM
Where does Art Shell rank? I have to think some team (probably Oakland) is gonna get over-excited by his obvious measurables and take him way too high in the draft
April 6th, 2011 at 1:51 PM
Ah christ, I was going to go to lunch too. McCarthy too high (great offensive mind but Mike-Ticeian when it comes to situational football), Sean Payton too high (loves to “break out the ruler” too often as Sanders would say), Jim Harbaugh way WAY too high, Whisenhunt too low. Totally on board with Raheem Morris though.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:51 PM
so many why moments here. Lovie smith doesnt just screw up a challenge here or there and “managing personalities” thing is huge piece of crap. he lets his coordianators do their job because whenever he speaks he fucks something up. and I’d give jim harbaugh a year or two before saying his a good NFL coach. And when Tomlin isnt playing with cowher’s players and winning I’ll give him a little more credit
April 6th, 2011 at 1:52 PM
You mean because he hates the running game? I always get a kick out of him saying “We need to run the ball more” as if this is beyond his control to call more of those plays
Nothing about the Lions can be too low
April 6th, 2011 at 1:52 PM
Where does Peyton Manning rate on this List?
April 6th, 2011 at 1:52 PM
Andy Reid is way too high. The man has too much control over personnel decisions (lack of big linemen on both sides of the ball, secondary being terrible), has the worst clock management of any coach in football and over-reliance on the antiquated West Coast offense.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:52 PM
Jim Harbaugh, who has never coached a fucking game, is in the top 10? Good list.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:53 PM
/Expects Hue Jackson to #17
April 6th, 2011 at 1:53 PM
This time last year, Raheem Morris was one of the worst coaches of all time. “Over his head” was the prhase I remembered. But what he did last year was nothing short of miraculous.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:53 PM
I would have Whiz much higher and Haley much lower, but I’d somewhat agree with this list given the conditions you put. Also, I think Mike Smith is John Fox 2.0.
I would say look how he handled the 1st four games of 2010 with Dixon/Batch/Lefty for managing games.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:53 PM
Haley too high. Where is T. Chandler Gailey ranked? ha!
April 6th, 2011 at 1:54 PM
Please don’t make me defend Lovie Smith. He is not a terrible coach. He’s a boring press conference, a bad challenger, and does tend to hire his friends a bit too much. Still, he’s not a bad coach. I give him credit for this… he doesn’t throw players under the bus and is generally pretty quick to accept responsibility when the team fails.
He’s been a to a Super Bowl and almost went to another one last year with a team that was admittedly flawed. He’s not a great coach, but he’s a good coach.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:54 PM
well, the Vikings were looking up at the Lions in the final standings. Also, fuck the Packers.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:54 PM
I agree with the list except for Jim Harbaugh being that high (I know he’s a good coach, but maybe there should be an “incomplete” since he hasn’t coached one NFL game) and Lovie being anywhere near the top 20.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:54 PM
He gets high marks for his play calling, but certainly many points taken away for constantly playing cover 1 with corners who can’t hold up without safety help, and for leaving holes in the middle of the field with big blitzes run by undersized, step-slow LB’s.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:55 PM
This is the NFL not college football.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:55 PM
I think Chico was the reason they went to that super bowl.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:56 PM
They’re both spectacular at collecting the ever coveted “Championship game appearances”
/too early for Rex to be that high
April 6th, 2011 at 1:56 PM
I have seen almost every bears’ game since lovie has coached and cannot for the life of me remember one time ever thinking “Thank God We got Lovie! No coach brings it like Lovie!” he isnt a good coach
April 6th, 2011 at 1:56 PM
So basically if you’re “fiery” and a “motivator” you’re higher on the list?
April 6th, 2011 at 1:56 PM
pkiguy22 Says:
Exactly! Wow, and that was the top half in the league.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:57 PM
April 6th, 2011 at 1:57 PM
I’d say it was a fluky turnover recovery rate and friendly playoff matchups (oh, and Sean Payton), but I’m a conspiracy theorist.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:57 PM
I think that’s known as intangibles
April 6th, 2011 at 1:57 PM
That’s where the hiring his friends thing comes in. Chico was a huge factor and Lovie let him walk because he could fill the position with someone else. He also wanted to be head honcho on the defense… that didn’t work.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:57 PM
Lovie relies on giving kickbacks to refs.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:58 PM
Yup. Ryan number four? That’s horseshit.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:59 PM
Can we just say that they had a really good season forcing turnovers instead of fluke? Because they did have a great defense that was good at forcing turnovers. It did regress the following the season as that rate was hard to keep up.
Fluke just seems like they’re not being given any credit for skill or awareness and were merely lucky.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:59 PM
I agree with the list except for Jim Harbaugh being that high (I know he’s a good coach, but maybe there should be an “incomplete” since he hasn’t coached one NFL game) and Lovie being anywhere near the top 20.
Okay, honest question, someone comes to you and says you can have Jim Harbaugh or Mike Shanahan today. Who you taking?
April 6th, 2011 at 1:59 PM
Yes, it was quiet the miracle that he lost to a Drew Stanton QB’d squad. fuck the Bucs.
April 6th, 2011 at 1:59 PM
Where’s Marvin Lewis?
/knows where is Marvin Lewis.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:00 PM
All proof he’s not that good of a coach.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:00 PM
Yup. Ryan number four? That’s horseshit.
I can’t stand the Jets, but who that Lisk rated below him would you rather have as your coach right now? The guy has done pretty well with what he has had.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:00 PM
Lollerskates.
/Tussles Mrejr hair and hands him THE Rock action figure
//Goes back to talk with grown ups
April 6th, 2011 at 2:00 PM
And does a fantastic fist pump
I think #2 might be a little to high. He should drop a couple of spots for 2009.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:00 PM
I’m telling you, watch the turnovers forced stat. If a team has an usual spike (see 2009 Saints) or a team that already forces many turnovers happens to recover an inordinate amount (see 2006 Bears), it can result in a surprise Super Bowl appearance.
But a lot of the credit to last year’s Bears success should fall to luck and the training staff. What did they lose, two games to injury from their starters? It was something extraordinary like that.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:00 PM
I get people not digging his act but c’mon, the guy can coach football…that team is completely his
April 6th, 2011 at 2:01 PM
To be fair, drew stanton is awesome.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:01 PM
Really? I know a lot of Giants fans, and very few of them like Tom Coughlin.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:01 PM
Okay, honest question, someone comes to you and says you can have Jim Harbaugh or Mike Shanahan today. Who you taking?
As a Redskin fan, Harbaugh in a cocaine heartbeat.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:01 PM
I’d probably take Harbaugh. Like I said, I know he’s a good coach, but the NFL is different from college. Also I’m not exactly the biggest Shanahan fan.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:01 PM
Shanahan…he isn’t the first coach to fall on his face in washington and he wont be the last.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:01 PM
This is sports. The dirty little secret is that luck plays a much bigger role than anyone wants to admit. It’s sexier to just draw things in black and white. And if you can toss in buzz words like clutch and choke, all the better.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:02 PM
Brawny, any thoughts on Rex vs. Coughlin?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:02 PM
Jim Harbaugh and Lovie Smith being higher than Coughlin is kind of a joke. But hey, it’s your list, playa.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:03 PM
/plays for hours on end
April 6th, 2011 at 2:03 PM
I am with you on this, but I wonder how his act will come across when he has the inevitable 7-9 season pretty much all coaches have.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:03 PM
he isn’t the first coach to fall on his face in washington after coasting for most of a decade in Denver and he wont be the last.
/fixed for why Lisk is trying to impart that this list is NOT about past accomplishments
April 6th, 2011 at 2:03 PM
Shanny. He’s a great coach, just a terrible GM.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:04 PM
When are we getting the hockey coaches list?
/knows when we’re getting the hockey coaches list
April 6th, 2011 at 2:04 PM
Well Sanchez and Brian Schottenheimer will still get the blame.
/Fuck Schottenheimer
April 6th, 2011 at 2:05 PM
The dirty little secret is that luck plays a much bigger role than anyone wants to admit.
Perhaps better to call it random chance or random variation, people seem to ascribe negative connotations when you call it luck.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:05 PM
What is the Bill’s worst record with the Patriots? 8-8?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:06 PM
Those Jaguar teams Coughlin coached were pretty damn good. The trio of Brunell, Taylor, and Jimmy Smith were fun to watch, but always murdered the Steelers.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:06 PM
why didn’t you just write a post that says “I don’t like Tom Coughlin and Rex Ryan is better than him”?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:06 PM
people seem to ascribe negative connotations when you call it luck.
Yeah, but who gives a shit about Panthers fans?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:06 PM
When are we getting the hockey coaches list?
Don’t be shocked when Mac T is ranked 9th.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:07 PM
I want to say 7-9 after he won his first SB. Helped the Jets actually get in the playoffs.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:07 PM
TBL: Given Lisk’s criteria, I’d go with Rex based on Coughlin’s age alone. Of course that applies to 20 other coaches. I think Coughlin’s body of work and success speaks for itself.
I’d imagine if Rex had his career with the Jets most fans, if not all, would take that in a heart beat.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:08 PM
5-11 but that was when Drew Bledsoe was still around…since then only that 9-7 mark in 2002 was less than 10 wins
April 6th, 2011 at 2:08 PM
Cant believe Steeler fans are the ones discrediting Tomlin. He’s been to two SB’s and won 1. This year was a disaster, QB suspended, best OLineman didnt play a snap, injuries, fines. Yet he kept them together and somehow they finished as the 2 seed.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:08 PM
5-11
April 6th, 2011 at 2:08 PM
The next spot after #1 should be #10. He’s that damn good. Everyone else should bow and kiss the rings.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:08 PM
It’s probably too early to rank the SF Harbaugh since he hasn’t coached an NFL game yet. Should be in the n/a or incomplete range. Especially since college coaches have struggled jumping to the nfl
April 6th, 2011 at 2:09 PM
Those Jaguar teams Coughlin coached were pretty damn good. The trio of Brunell, Taylor, and Jimmy Smith were fun to watch, but always murdered the Steelers.
2 conference title games in the first 5 years of the franchise, followed shortly by crippling salary cap issues. Some of the fans were spoiled by the early success.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:09 PM
I really like how Coughlin’s mellowed over the years and kinda/sorta adjusted with the times, but good lord, he’s 65! My dad’s around that age and he still calls teams the California Angels, Baltimore Colts, etc. And it takes him 10 minutes to figure out how to call someone on a cell phone.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:09 PM
There it is.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:09 PM
#1 Quenneville’s Stache
#2 Bruce Boudreau’s mouth
#3 Tom Renney’s closet
…
…
…
#30 Mike Babcock
April 6th, 2011 at 2:09 PM
Shut your fucking mouth, whore.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:11 PM
I think I’d have McCarthy over Rex. They each have 2 title games, but only one has a super bowl. Also, you can say what you want about McCarthy, but dealing with those injuries from this year as well as how he handled the Favre situation says a lot to me.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:11 PM
SC needs to bust out that cartoon he linked yesterday for me. I feel a desparate need to defend the integrity of this post for some reason:
Should be in the n/a or incomplete range.
The idea is that you are drafting coaches so, going forward, the whole list of coaches in the league now or at any point in time in the future (in any and all universes known or to be discovered) is incomplete. That’s the idea. You are starting the league with rosters but no coaches. Who do you pick first?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:11 PM
I think Rex Ryan is pretty close at designing a defense and getting his players to play for him. Belichick has a knack for finding overlooked guys from other teams and getting them to flourish in the Patriots’ system.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:11 PM
not a bad list…tomlin’s too high unless he comes with the built in, coach’s safety net that is the steelers organization. im not really sure what he does in PIT considering it’s lebeau’s defense and arians’ offense.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:11 PM
Your honor I am here to represent my client, Peyton Manning.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:11 PM
Cant believe Steeler fans are the ones discrediting Tomlin. He’s been to two SB’s and won 1. This year was a disaster, QB suspended, best OLineman didnt play a snap, injuries, fines. Yet he kept them together and somehow they finished as the 2 seed.
This is spot on.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:12 PM
Cant believe Steeler fans are the ones discrediting Tomlin. He’s been to two SB’s and won 1. This year was a disaster, QB suspended, best OLineman didnt play a snap, injuries, fines. Yet he kept them together and somehow they finished as the 2 seed.
Fuck all of you Steeler fans who were discrediting Tomlin @2. Did you read down the list? Most of these coaches are awful and make bad decisions every game. You guys have a great coach who is able maximize his talent and wins.
/Every Viking fan
April 6th, 2011 at 2:12 PM
Panthers too high.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:12 PM
he’s 65! My dad’s around that age and he still calls teams the California Angels, Baltimore Colts, etc. And it takes him 10 minutes to figure out how to call someone on a cell phone.
I’m only 33 and I do stuff like this.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:13 PM
I think this is a way too simplified way of evaluating them. That basically says that Jim Caldwell is one kick return away from being better than Rex Ryan, which is absurd.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:13 PM
I only said he should drop a spot or 2. Is being the fourth best coach in the cutthroat NFL that much of an insult?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:13 PM
Agreed. Tomlin is tremendous.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:13 PM
Rex = Tressel/Stoops
Choker.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:13 PM
todd haley is entirely undeserving of being on this list.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:13 PM
Funny, even a Squawk fan should know that Babcock is a great coach.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:14 PM
Semen, swallow it.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:14 PM
Omar Epps brother can coach my football team any day of the week.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:14 PM
/facepalm
//Dungy’d
///Billick’d
April 6th, 2011 at 2:14 PM
Who’s gonna get Switzer? Super Bowl winning coach! Rex is too high if he’s above Switzer
April 6th, 2011 at 2:15 PM
Well put. And keep in mind, this is the freaking Jets. What he’s done with them in just two seasons is pretty impressive.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:15 PM
Needs more Bill Self.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:15 PM
at what? looking like a badass? sure. motivating? absolutely. being obnoxious and referring to his players by their number? no doubt.
but the steeler job is autopilot when it comes to head coaching. the only thing i think he has responsibility over is throwing the red flag*.
*being facetious, but he doesn’t really have a personal stamp on either side of the ball
April 6th, 2011 at 2:15 PM
Coop, I don’t get the Tomlin hate either. I wouldn’t trade him for anybody in the league.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:15 PM
Hernia’s comments need to be taken with a grain of salt. he would still take Bill Walsh #1 to coach his team next year
April 6th, 2011 at 2:16 PM
Another list where Cleveland will be in the bottom 5… sigh
April 6th, 2011 at 2:16 PM
This comment is more bitter than bitter beer face.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:16 PM
Babs coached the lumberjacking, denim wearing, free healthcare pandering, kill you with kindness hosers to a win over the Great American Hero, Ryan Miller. Plus he coaches the new Soviets in the NHL. He’s dead to me.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:17 PM
Having said that, I think banders would take Bill Walsh over Jim Caldwell. Come to think of it… Has anybody ever seen Jim Caldwell and Bill Walsh’s corpse in the same room?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:17 PM
Rex Ryan is the man. His defensive gameplans against Manning and Brady in the playoffs this year were completely different, yet just as effective. He forced Manning to settle for field goals and Brady to throw into the tiniest of tiny windows while waiting seven seconds for guys to get open. Pretty dang impressive by him and his staff.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:17 PM
This is so true, but people refuse to admit it. Luck/random chance/whatever plays a very big role. Players getting injured or not injured can be a matter of centimeters. But people can define luck, so they try to minimize its importance in place of more tangible factors.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:17 PM
Spence gets it. Help yourself to some internet points.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:17 PM
Sure he is. He’s fiery. Nevermind the fact he’s run off 2 OC’s in two years.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:18 PM
couldn’t be farther from the truth…i like tomlin, but i like lebeau better. and i like arians too. but having a set, proven system for both evaluating talent and player retention is a HUGE advantage only a handful of teams have.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:19 PM
Look, I don’t think Jim Caldwell is a bad coach. The guy probably knows more football than I could learn in a lifetime. I just think he, after Dungy, is a bad fit for the team and the talent. They have a great offense, mediocre defense and terrible special teams. They should be risky, taking chances, anything to maximize possessions. Yet both Caldwell and Dungy are the kings of punting on fourth and one from their opponents 40-yard line. Drives me batty.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:19 PM
I want you to put together a top ten but is that even possible when you hate 30 teams in the league?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:20 PM
He doesn’t hate the lions.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:20 PM
Babs coached the lumberjacking, denim wearing, free healthcare pandering, kill you with kindness hosers to a win over the Great American Hero, Ryan Miller.
Golden goal, bitches.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:20 PM
One thing that worries me about Tomlin, he is started to develop quite the gut.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:20 PM
But a lot of the credit to last year’s Bears success should fall to luck and the training staff. What did they lose, two games to injury from their starters? It was something extraordinary like that.
let’s remember that the bears got to a title game by beating the seahawks at home. sure they earned the right to do that, but they won 1 postseason game against a horrible team. oack did them a favor in the CT game. steelers beat bears by two TDs in hypo SB
April 6th, 2011 at 2:20 PM
Look, I don’t think Jim Caldwell is a bad coach.
Really? I thought that idea was reaching a saturation point. Guess there are still some holdouts
April 6th, 2011 at 2:21 PM
Not really.
/offers Spence and Hernia a Keystone Light.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:21 PM
There are 32 teams in the NFL, also figuring he’s indifferent about the Jags same as everyone else
/No offense Zeus
April 6th, 2011 at 2:21 PM
I think you should have read the rest of my comment for why I believe in McCarthy. I was using the stats to add another layer to my McCarthy >> Rex angle. I’d take Rex if it were just about Xs and Os, but it’s not. Keeping a team afloat when injuries decimate a team is a big deal to me. Having backups ready to roll is a sign of good coaching.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:22 PM
JHS=Keith Stone?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:22 PM
sure.
1. BB
2. mccarthy
3. payton
4. andy reid
5. tomlin
6. john harbaugh
7. rex ryan
8. coughlin
9. mike smith
10. shanahan (mancrush on his offense)
April 6th, 2011 at 2:22 PM
So basically if you’re “fiery” and a “motivator” you’re higher on the list?
Not true at all. I’m looking at “young coach who went to playoffs in year two” vs old coach with career success to make assessments. I would have ranked gunther Cunningham at 50 on this list, and Dungy near the top.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:23 PM
Does Scotty Bowman still coach? I got nothing.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:23 PM
/No offense Zeus
None taken, I fully expect Del Rio to be bottom 5.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:23 PM
As hard as it is to win a Super Bowl, pretty solid bet that Rex Ryan retires without one. But at least he can hang his hat on all the AFC East titles he’s won this far. Much better measure of consistency and coaching acumen.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:23 PM
Dont get the Andy Reid hate. Having your team in contention every year is very underrated. And so many NFL coaches suck at time mgmt, i dont think it’s fair to single out Reid in this regard.
Belichick is #1 by far but i might have Reid #2. The guy is great with QB’s and it’s a QB league.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:24 PM
I mean, if Tomlin and McCarthy are going to get credit for holding a team together and reaching the playoffs despite a torrent of injuries, Caldwell should get some credit for doing the same. Contrary to popular belief, the Colts aren’t ONLY Peyton Manning. They have about six or seven elite or near-elite players, and a bunch of guys who are deficient in some way or another (like a supermodel with a snaggle tooth), which is why they ended up being drafted lower or picked up off the street.
Caldwell should get some credit, but his game management during the Colts’ past two playoff losses featured some serious question marks, though not any worse than some of the things Marv Levy used to do.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:24 PM
I would rather have Tomlin than Reid any day of the week.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:24 PM
seriously…andy reid is the man.
/clears throat
April 6th, 2011 at 2:24 PM
/snickers
April 6th, 2011 at 2:25 PM
Late to the party. Mike Shannohan being on this list makes the rest of it irrelevant.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:25 PM
change that to “reaching the super bowl/winning it.” I think this needs to be said.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:25 PM
More unreasonable bitterness from the state of Ohio.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:25 PM
I don’t know many Eagles fans who like Reid. That may be just bad judgement on their part, and I’m just spoiled watching Belichick, but I don’t think I’d have him in the top 10.
I like Tomlin, Smith, Payton a lot from what I’ve seen, but I can’t fully get behind McCarthy or Reid. And I do think that Reid is susceptible to free falling down that list if they can’t get a solid defensive coordinator. Luckily for McCarthy, Capers doesn’t seem to be going anywhere.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:25 PM
I agree the Steeler organization is built to help the coach succeed and that has contributed to his Tomlin success. But I think you underestimate how much X’s and O’s he does with the Off/Def. Also, like I mentioned earlier, look how he handled the whole GigGreyPeen suspension.
While some players are retained, the ones lost are not replaced with quality free agents. i.e Lose Holmes, sign Randle El/ A. Battle.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:26 PM
Where is Jeff Fisher on this list?!??!
April 6th, 2011 at 2:27 PM
Ha. Fair enough.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:27 PM
though not any worse than some of the things Marv Levy used to do.
Gasp! You just compared Caldwell to Levy? You shut your mouth. For cerealz, though, I get your defense. I’m really hoping the Colts get Hankerson in the draft so Reggie can pass the baton to him for Peyton’s twilight years.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:27 PM
Where is Jeff Fisher on this list?!??!
Have you looked at his record the last 10 years? It isn’t very good. It might not even be over .500. Head coach is only as good as his starting quarterback.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:27 PM
Okay, well the Colts had nearly as many injuries in 2009 (remember that Austin Collie and Pierre Garcon had played, together, about 10 snaps prior to the season) and reached the Super Bowl. How’s that? He’s a popular punching bag, but if that’s going to be your criteria, he’s not that far off from demigod McCarthy.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:27 PM
Scotty Bowman is a kitten killing commie.
/SC’d if SC watched hockey when Bowman coached.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:27 PM
Unemployed?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:28 PM
Yeah… still can’t believe Andy Reid is getting crapped on.
OT: Anyone else just get an e-mail from EA Sports Litigation?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:28 PM
And I do think LeBeau is a big reason for Tomlin’s success (as he should be) but I’ve also heard a LOT of grumblings about Arians. I don’t think I’d use him as a reason Tomlin is successful. I hate the Steelers more than anyone I’ve ever met, but I can’t hate on Tomlin at all, he seems to be a sure top 5 coach to me…
April 6th, 2011 at 2:28 PM
they’re replaced using the same draft philosophies this front office has used since the early 90′s. so holmes left…they got sanders and wallace and brown…
April 6th, 2011 at 2:28 PM
Caldwell should get some credit, but his game management during the Colts’ past two playoff losses featured some serious question marks, though not any worse than some of the things Marv Levy used to do.
I have him at #20. Better than others an unknown assistants, and others who have failed. Getting to the Super Bowl with any team is an accomplishment. Though on the list of coaches taking over established programs, he’s behind Seifert and Flores.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:29 PM
Not to get into a Caldwell bash-fest, but making the playoffs when your competition is Jacksonville, Tennessee and Houston is not overly impressive when you have the GOAT at QB.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:29 PM
Since 2000… Fisher has finished over .500 4 times.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:29 PM
Where is Jeff Fisher on this list?!??!
Unemployed?
That too…
April 6th, 2011 at 2:29 PM
You werent here when I went apeshit over everyone saying Fisher is so good, and I said he wasn’t even top 10. The whole friggin site came at me saying he’s a top 10 coach, but no one seems to be jumping at it now. I’d take every one of those 16, except Reid, over him.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:30 PM
Not on it, he’s not an NFL head coach.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:30 PM
Where is Jeff Fisher on this list?!??!
Unemployed?
Only until the Shanahan experience is ousted from Raljon, MD. Give it til the 6th game of the year (so, December?). There are only so many coaches Danny can hand $8M/year to and Marty Schottenheimer is not walking through that door
April 6th, 2011 at 2:30 PM
That’s fair, although it’s harder to compare succession guys from the pre-salary cap era to the salary cap era. But I’d certainly take Seifert or Flores over Caldwell, no question. Seifert would be up for the hall of fame if not for the blackmark of 1-15 hanging over his resume like a black cloud.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:30 PM
Marvin Lewis has two division titles as coach of the Bengals. The fucking Bengals!
Not even top 16?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:31 PM
I would have Reid #3 despite his inability to handle the challenge flag or clock management.
BB
Omar Epps
Reid
Whiz
Payton
Harbaugh (Balt)
Rex
McCarthy
Fox/Mike Smith
April 6th, 2011 at 2:31 PM
You werent here when I went apeshit over everyone saying Fisher is so good, and I said he wasn’t even top 10. The whole friggin site came at me saying he’s a top 10 coach, but no one seems to be jumping at it now. I’d take every one of those 16, except Reid, over him.
My bad. I’m your brother in the Fisher was/is incredibly overrated camp. Shanahan belongs in the same camp.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:31 PM
So for the record, I watched Jeff Fisher do enough dumb things and make enough dumb personnel decisions (really really bad handle on his players) to say he was not even close to top 10, and was WAY overrated, and I don’t know where all those people are now…
April 6th, 2011 at 2:31 PM
grumbling about arians is meh. their offense is perfectly suited to their personnel…why run the football “the steeler way (barfs)” when your line sucks and your RB’s are batshit crazy or only useful as a pass catcher? arians is fine.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:31 PM
begrudgingly agree.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:32 PM
Three teams in NFL history have started a season 14-0. Jim Caldwell was the coach of one of them. A LOT of good fortune was involved in them winning those 14 games in a row, but still.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:32 PM
So given the OC/DC, basically except for the two most important things a HC has to do during a game, Reid is great?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:32 PM
Seifert is a good comparison, did he even touch the offense at all during his time there? No reason to with Holmgren/Shanahan. Do you dock him for that though? Somewhat similar thing to Caldwell/Peyton isn’t it?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:32 PM
Interesting. Since he’s become the HC of the NYJ, he’s made number one on this list’s monkey ass famous 3 out of the 5 times they’ve played and been deeper into the playoffs than him both years. But go ahead write your own narratives, jackasses.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:32 PM
As a Falcons’ fan, I am more than thrilled to have Mike Smith as head coach. I love his fire and his game day coaching. The 0-2 playoff record doesn’t much worry me at all, actually. They lost with Matt Ryan as a rookie playing Arizona on the road and they ran into one of the best QBs in football on a fucking tear last year. With Dimitroff and Smith running the show and Ryan at QB, I think ATL is in excellent hands.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:33 PM
And Tomlin should get credit for his input in drafting and coaching up these players.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:33 PM
that’s reid’s offense…and the most important thing a HC has to do is win and reid wins consistently, no matter the personnel.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:33 PM
Three teams in NFL history have started a season 14-0.
Only one Super Bowl win between them. Shula < all
April 6th, 2011 at 2:33 PM
I also believe this good coach/bad coach thing is irrelevant for the most part. Show me a great coach with a terrible QB, or a great QB with a terrible coach. It’s very rare. BB sucked in Cleveland. It’s not liked he learned how to be Lomabardi in the few years he had off. Is he better? Sure. But Tom Brady also fell into his lap.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:34 PM
You know what I should do, go back to random points in time and see who ended up being the best coaches, and see what they looked like at that point. 1990, for example, and Harbaugh comes out looking way way undervalued (Jimmy Johnson), 2005, he looks overvalued. Joe Gibbs would have been near the top, deservedly so, Parcells. Schottenheimer (Mike Smith) would have been one of the top 5 coaches of the next decade but no Ringggggsss. Shula would have dropped off.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:34 PM
The 2009 AFC title game?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:34 PM
Seifert is a good comparison, did he even touch the offense at all during his time there?
Don’t the 49ers still use bill Walsh’s playbook?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:35 PM
Small sample size, no?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:35 PM
This. I don’t think you can overstate the effect of a good GM hitting on some good (and usually somewhat lucky) personnel moves. Patriots won 3 Superbowls on that strategy, and then hit a bad stretch of 1st/2nd round pick fails, and got too old.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:35 PM
BB sucked in Cleveland.
You sure about that?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:35 PM
or a great QB with a terrible coach.
That doesn’t help my point at all, not sure why I wrote that. What I meant was there are more great QB’s with terrible coaches than the other way around.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:36 PM
That 2001 Super Bowl team and win was a lot more about the defense he put together than it was Brady. I mean, hell, the defense put up almost as many points as the offense in the Super Bowl. Now, the 2003 and 2004 teams are a different story. It was much more balanced.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:36 PM
how much input does he have in drafting them? serious question.
im more apt to give credit to colbert, who has a decade worth of draft/undrafted FA hits under his belt over the 30-something year old coach as an outsider’s guess.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:36 PM
You realize coaches come to work Monday through Saturday too right? Also, he is the OC (despite Mornhinweg’s title) for that team.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:37 PM
BB didn’t suck in cleveland, that’s just a bullshit narrative.
he pissed off the fanbase by trading the city’s favorite player, but he wasn’t terrible. that’s just short sighted.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:37 PM
The 2009 AFC title game?
I wouldn’t call Sanchez “terrible.” He doesn’t make mistakes. That doesn’t make him “good” or “great,” but far from “terrible.”
April 6th, 2011 at 2:37 PM
The thing with Reid is that if you watch every Eagles game, he never changes anything. Same offensive packages, same lack of size on the lines and in the LB spots that allows the Eagles to be run on and make them succeptible to TE and crossing routes. He can’t manage the clock and he refuses to develop any bit of a running game.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:37 PM
I’m meh on this whole subject, but this is quality content. I love Tomlin, think Rex Ryan is awesome, and am OK with Jason Garrett.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:38 PM
Truth, he always has the play sheet, just above his utility belt.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:38 PM
I can’t wait to read part 3, when we finally get to Gary Kubiak.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:38 PM
But the metrics we have prove more that Rex is great than otherwise. Rusty is just being an ass and CJ is being a typical terrible Pat fan.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:38 PM
Belichick sabotaged his own regime in Cleveland by cutting Kosar, he had no chance in hell after that.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:39 PM
BB didn’t suck in cleveland, that’s just a bullshit narrative.
he pissed off the fanbase by trading the city’s favorite player, but he wasn’t terrible. that’s just short sighted.
Perhaps I worded my point poorly. I was trying to say that BB is more or less the same coach he was in Cleveland, only he has Tom Brady.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:39 PM
Yup. And Troy Brown punt returns. Brady played a less significant role that year than Dilfer did when he won.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:39 PM
He didn’t play in that game, dumbass.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:39 PM
same 10 wins per season…
April 6th, 2011 at 2:39 PM
Oh, I know. He’s actually only been terrible in two playoff games. Against the Chargers in ’09 and against the Colts this year. He’s competent enough. I just like to poke the bear.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:39 PM
I’m confused by this statement.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:39 PM
I hate this sentence more than I hate humidity.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:40 PM
The Rex hate on here is kind of baffling. The Jets thoroughly outcoached the Colts and the #1 seed Pats in the playoffs. That’s pretty effing good.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:40 PM
He certainly did. While played in 2010, they still call it the 2009 AFC title game, as it’s the title game for the 2009 season. Or at least that’s what I’ve been led to believe.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:40 PM
I think its him and Colbert, but I pretty sure Tomlin has the final say. Timmons and Woodley were Tomlin guys.
But the key to their drafting success is how much they trust and work with each other (and their scouts/asst coaches).
April 6th, 2011 at 2:41 PM
Shouldn’t we be calling that the 2010 AFC championship?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:41 PM
Reid reminds me of a slightly better Jeff Fisher. Neither wants to change what they do ever.
Sometimes you can get away with that, but sometimes you just have to say eff it and change it up. The Jets knew Brady wouldn’t run and dropped 8 guys every play. If they rush five half the time, they lose that game. Or if Brady’s foot lets him scramble they lose that game, but instead, Rex knew exactly how to exploit their weeknesses.
/Glares at Jersey
//Snaps pencil in half
April 6th, 2011 at 2:41 PM
Typical Browns fans. Living in the past gets you nowhere.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:41 PM
I think I’ve come to terms with Sanchez actually being a good QB. Honestly, I’d have to think about who I’d take between him and Matt Ryan. I hated both of them so much during their college careers that it almost physically pains me to give them any bit of admiration now. But they’re both pretty good. I wouldn’t throw them the keys to the Murcielago but they could both drive the Maxima.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:41 PM
Same losing in the first or second round of the playoffs. The “Gold Standard” that Lurie, Banner and Reid talk up is a bunch of shit. “Tricking passionate fans out of their money to watch a consistent team” is their mantra.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:41 PM
Fair enough. Fuck you.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:41 PM
Reid was ahead of the times in that regard, you dont need to run the ball to win in the NFL anymore. Did you watch the SB this year?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:41 PM
He didn’t play in that game, dumbass.
Didn’t the Jets make back-back AFC title games? 2009&2010? What am I missing here?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:42 PM
Sanchez seems to be a gamer. He’s not going to be good for 16 (18?) games in the regular season on a consistent basis, but in the big games he will play well. He’s certainly not as good as JETS fans claim, but he’s not nearly as bad as his detractors think, either.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:43 PM
That’s my fault. I’m the dumbass. I just get confused because those games were played in 2010 and 2011.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:43 PM
Yes I did. However GB also had a badass, huge defense that Andy Reid does not have.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:43 PM
Ryan and Co. firebombed Caldwell in their playoff rematch this year. Outsmarted them on seemingly every third and short, then after halftime said screw throwing the ball, that’s only causing us trouble. Kept the Colts offense off the field, held them to field goals three teams when a TD any time would have meant a loss. It was most impressive.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:43 PM
Brady played a less significant role that year than Dilfer did when he won.
Not true. Brady delivered the money to the refs. That was pretty significant
April 6th, 2011 at 2:44 PM
Can we start a discussion: what college produces the most disappointing pro QB’s in the last 20 years?
/1 vote for Notre Dame
April 6th, 2011 at 2:44 PM
Same losing in the first or second round of the playoffs.
I wasn’t aware that the Championship games or the Super Bowl were in the first two rounds of the playoffs but I guess you’re right. Redi sucks
April 6th, 2011 at 2:44 PM
What’s the deal with all the early starts in MLB this week?
I get the free Xtra innings this week and there are no late west coast games? WTF
/cheap bastard
April 6th, 2011 at 2:45 PM
seriously? they were drafted in tomlin’s first year…colbert and lebeau’s seventh years with the stillers…but they’re tomlin guys? even despite the fact that PIT had been targeting those exact types of LB’s since the early 90′s?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:45 PM
How could a Notre Dame QB disappoint you in the last 20 years? What were you expecting from them?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:45 PM
That’s my fault. I’m the dumbass. I just get confused because those games were played in 2010 and 2011.
And if we’re talking the 2008 AFC championship game… would that have been Flacco? I would throw him in the same boat as Sanchez… maybe a little worse.. but he’s far from “terrible.” There are so many “terrible” QB’s out there.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:45 PM
LSU
April 6th, 2011 at 2:46 PM
Cold weather, it’s getaway day today and tomorrow and teams are still having their home openers this week
April 6th, 2011 at 2:46 PM
Great, great topic. Notre Dame is a very strong contender, but that is kind of nice way of slamming something. On the one hand, they put them out. On the other, they aren’t any good. As a CFB fan first and foremost, I would rather my team put them out and have them suck as opposed to never putting them out.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:47 PM
I get the free Xtra innings this week and there are no late west coast games? WTF
That’s been annoying me, too. Not as much as it should bother DirecTV that I won’t shell out for that shit and will just go buy MLB TV instead when the free trial is over but it’s a bit of sand in the ol’ vagina for me
April 6th, 2011 at 2:47 PM
I think Flacco’s more advanced at this stage than Sanchez, certainly in terms of decision making, arm strength and accuracy. Sanchez is more mobile and doesn’t get all deer-in-headlights when everyone’s covered, but overall, Flacco’s the better player. Right now.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:47 PM
I was trying to say that BB is more or less the same coach he was in Cleveland, only he has Tom Brady.
I hate this sentence more than I hate humidity.
Why? According to the Browns fans he was the same coach back then as he is now, more or less.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:47 PM
Aren’t you a Pitt fan. Please say you are, so I can make fun of your irrelevant ass.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:47 PM
maybe if lurie and banner weren’t cheap, disloyal asshats, reid would have a little more talent to work with.
but hey…thanks for heckert. im glad banner pulled the ol’ power move.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:47 PM
Most disappointing? USC
April 6th, 2011 at 2:47 PM
I just wanted to take a shot at ND. It makes me feel better about myself to denigrate others whenever I think about the Patriots chokes recently.
The early starts are for travel days, and also to decrease chance of it being 30 degrees at gametime.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:48 PM
Flacco’s not that far from terrible
April 6th, 2011 at 2:48 PM
Reid is probably the best designer of offense in the league. What he needs is an offensive coordinator who doesn’t hold that title in name only..
April 6th, 2011 at 2:48 PM
Reid’s record in NFC Championship: 1-4
in Superbowl 0-1.
Awesome coach. In 2003, when the Eagles had their best non-TO team, Gruden flat out destroyed him in coaching.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:48 PM
I always assume the year refers to the year the season started.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:48 PM
Texas has lots of disappointing pro QBs
April 6th, 2011 at 2:48 PM
Can we start a discussion: what college produces the most disappointing pro QB’s in the last 20 years?
The entire SEC? Peyton Manning is the sole exception to this rule. And Eli is a turd, so he doesn’t count.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:49 PM
Why? According to the Browns fans he was the same coach back then as he is now, more or less.
Hernia’s more of a front-runner than this sentiment allows for
April 6th, 2011 at 2:49 PM
WHAT!?1?!? HOW DARE YOU!!! HE’S ELITE!!!
/john clayton
April 6th, 2011 at 2:50 PM
Oregon, any other school have two top-5 busts like Akili Smith and Harrington?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:50 PM
Flacco’s not that far from terrible
When I think “terrible” I think about NFC West QB’s. I’d say there a a few exits between where these guys are at and Flacco. But Flacco is far from great.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:51 PM
I loathe the Sanchez hype (as a Vikings fan I’d MUCH rather try my luck and draft a QB this year than have Sanchez) but I think he edges out Flacco right now. Sanchez actually looked like he was getting better as the year went on, Flacco is beginning to look more and more like he is what he is at this point.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:51 PM
He was insinuating that Belichick has only seen success because of Tom Brady. Nah.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:52 PM
Harrington is like Alex Smith. If you are dumb enough to draft a risky QB #1 overall because you need one, not because you think he’s any good, then you deserve to have 7 years of cap mess.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:53 PM
The SEC has only the brothers Manning at the moment. They have hope in Stafford, but that’s really it. I think Aaron Murray can be Drew Brees if he peaks, but that is a big if. McElroy will be on TV in a year, but I think he can be a solid backup. Newton will be a big one for the SEC. I mean, if Newton and Stafford hit, the SEC will have 4 starting QBs in the league.
/really hope Newton falls on his cheating face and ruins the Panthers
April 6th, 2011 at 2:53 PM
I’d say there a a few exits between where these guys are at and Flacco.
With all the talk in this thread of the Steelers organization being the only reason Tomlin looks good, I’m gonna go ahead and throw this out there: the Ravens are probably the third best organization in the NFL (behind the Steelers and the Patriots) and the talent around Flacco is the only thing separating him from those NFC West QB’s.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:53 PM
He won 11 games with Matt Cassell. He’s no Coltrane.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:53 PM
Flacco is guy can become flustered and confused by coverages. Sanchez is on the rise.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:53 PM
Seriously. Tomlin wasn’t hired to sit on the sidelines. All I remember reading about that draft from Pitt beat writers is how he wanted Revis or Timmons. I think Woodley was more of a collaborated effort.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:54 PM
He was insinuating that Belichick has only seen success because of Tom Brady. Nah
Well, has he been successful without him? Didn’t he miss the playoffs the year he didn’t have Brady?
April 6th, 2011 at 2:54 PM
WOOOOTTTT
April 6th, 2011 at 2:54 PM
Can’t disagree with the Shanahan take. He was an exceptional play-caller and game day coach, but by this point I imagine he’s walking around Redskins Park, or whatever it’s called, with empty Kleenex boxes on his feet, fighting germs.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:55 PM
Nah, Steelers, Patriots, Colts. Holy trinity of the AFC. Has been for a decade, shows no signs of stopping.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:56 PM
They went 11-5 that season, just stop with this already
April 6th, 2011 at 2:56 PM
agreed.
i’ll have to take your word for it.
and im not saying tomlin sucks at all…i still had him no. 5 above. just that the steelers are the best org in the NFL and that i hate you all.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:56 PM
Being the first 11-5 team to miss the playoffs, with a QB who hadn’t started since high school? To me Belichicks best feat is draft a college backup and getting a 34th overall pick for him.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:57 PM
I don’t know about #3 (I’d take the Colts and Eagles), but I agree that they are near the top.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:57 PM
You cant be that dumb
April 6th, 2011 at 2:57 PM
don’t really care about this half of the list, its my hair, just don’t put Marvin Lewis anywhere in the top 30
April 6th, 2011 at 2:57 PM
Being the first 11-5 team to miss the playoffs
Not true. Tim Ryan can vouch for me on this
April 6th, 2011 at 2:57 PM
He went 11-5… But still, fuck him.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:58 PM
And PS I think Hoyer has a lot of potential. Belichick also turned the “scrappy team with less talent than everyone else” in 2001 into the “juggernaut favorite thats better than everyone” with basically all the same players. I can’t think of anyone but Rodney Harrison who was a big free agent pickup for 2003/4
April 6th, 2011 at 2:59 PM
I can’t think of anyone but Rodney Harrison who was a big free agent pickup for 2003/4
Well, free agents are fool’s gold. Look at the Pats drafts around that time for the talent infusions
April 6th, 2011 at 2:59 PM
1985 Broncos.
April 6th, 2011 at 2:59 PM
I am not trying to get you to rank him higher, just trying to let you know his role in the organization.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:00 PM
corey dillon?
April 6th, 2011 at 3:00 PM
you forgot Cutler, but then again Vandy doesn’t really count as the SEC until it comes time to talk academics.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:00 PM
I still hate the Broncos for all the 35-3 wins in the early/mid 90′s over the Patriots, and the late eff-you Jason Elam field goals.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:00 PM
don’t really care about this half of the list, its my hair, just don’t put Marvin Lewis anywhere in the top 30
your comment had no influence over me. I already did the list. Just didn’t want people accusing me of pandering to you.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:00 PM
Free agency is often times a coin flip. For as many Julius Peppers as there are out there, there are an Albert Haynesworth and a Nate Clements. Draft is much safer and, usually, cheaper.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:00 PM
yea i know…i just had to throw disclaimers out so it doesn’t get seen as by blind, browns-fan hating.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:01 PM
Vandy doesn’t really count as the SEC until it comes time to talk academics.
At which point it really doesn’t count as SEC
April 6th, 2011 at 3:01 PM
I think we gave a 2nd or 3rd rounder for Dillon, but yeah that was a good pickup. Still basically all the same players, is the point. Patriots hatred was definitely a curse of success (as always happens with teams that win more than once), and Spygate just gave everyone validity so they didn’t feel petty.
/really believes that
April 6th, 2011 at 3:02 PM
Can we start a discussion: what college produces the most disappointing pro QB’s in the last 20 years?
, then Oregon would be tough to beat.
Akili Smith, Joey Harrington, and Kellen Clemens are a whole lot of fail.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:03 PM
BTW, I totally stumbled into that 11-5 thing. I thought the ’91 49ers were 11-5 but I see they actually went 10-6. Good thing the Broncos actually did that or I would have just been wrong again
April 6th, 2011 at 3:03 PM
Totally forgot about him. With Mallett and Newton coming in, the SEC could have 5 starting QBs 2 years from now. Of course Mallett will probably be face down in a drained pool at that time, but you never know.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:04 PM
This guy gets argumentative when you say he’s wrong, even if he’s wrong
April 6th, 2011 at 3:04 PM
Could we get a post on UFL coaches?
April 6th, 2011 at 3:05 PM
Which guy? Who we talking about?
April 6th, 2011 at 3:05 PM
Who is the this guy?
April 6th, 2011 at 3:06 PM
I think he means WWOS. Now to press submit and see if I’m right
April 6th, 2011 at 3:07 PM
I hope it’s not me for the 11-5 thing, because I was just guessing, and when it was wrong I let it go because it really didn’t matter to the point I was making and I didn’t care. Was just making a comment about the 1990′s Broncos and growing up with them beating the crap out of Bledsoe every year.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:07 PM
Dennis Dixon FTW!!
April 6th, 2011 at 3:08 PM
Pot and kettle, right?
April 6th, 2011 at 3:08 PM
My account got hacked, carry on
April 6th, 2011 at 3:08 PM
I don’t really get that, or see how I’m being argumentative… once someone brought up another 11-5 team I didn’t once say it’s wrong, whatever… the Pats went 11-5 and missed the playoffs. Don’t really care beyond that, and there is no need to name-call, Clay
April 6th, 2011 at 3:09 PM
How did you feel about Bledsoe not making the Patriots hall of fame this year? Kind of surprised me.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:10 PM
It’s that damn Taguchi again, isnt it
April 6th, 2011 at 3:10 PM
My account got hacked, carry on
I think you should blame it on TSH. That would be believable. What with the way he goes back in and corrects his typos in the comments and all
April 6th, 2011 at 3:10 PM
I’m argumentative all the time, but I’ll generally concede my wrongness pretty quickly.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:10 PM
Oohh, I think Dennis Dixon is redeemable as a backup, and isn’t that all he was expected to be?
We need a post of 1st/2nd/3rd round picks by school, and success rate…
April 6th, 2011 at 3:11 PM
looks like you have your own blog…why don’t you get crackin’?
April 6th, 2011 at 3:13 PM
I was definitely conceding it, I didn’t think it needed a full apology since it didn’t matter and was mostly irrelevant.
It made me sad, because he really was the name/face of those teams, not Coates. Coates was better at his position compared to the league, but Bledsoe was a durable player who took a lot of punishment and played through some pretty severe pain, during the era that the Pats went from laughingstock to fringe contenders. Plus he makes a hell of a cabernet
April 6th, 2011 at 3:13 PM
Considering NFL quarterbacks come from all schools and all conferences doing any sort of a study would be a glorious waste of time
April 6th, 2011 at 3:13 PM
Mike Florio thought Dennis had a better chance to lead the Steelers instead of Big Ben last year. What a fuck.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:14 PM
Kurt Angle ladies and gentlemen!
April 6th, 2011 at 3:14 PM
ha! good one, fake blog, no readers, me being bored. i will never be a writer/blogger, and even my comments here are incoherent and fail to convey my points.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:15 PM
Frank Kush, damn:
April 6th, 2011 at 3:15 PM
that’s because he was the QB and got all the pub.
just because sanchez is the face of the jets doesn’t mean he’s their most important part.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:16 PM
I don’t think it’s a waste to ask what schools have had the most top 3 round QB’s picked in the last 20 years. If a few schools have 5 or so, you could look at it… if it’s just a few for a bunch (30) of schools, you can’t learn anything.
/Title goes to Oregon
April 6th, 2011 at 3:16 PM
I would tend to agree. The better thing would be to do a look at which conferences put out the most hits on all players. It would need to be more than just looking at Pro-Bowls. I think starters would be the best way of looking at it. Maybe even the 2-deep.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:19 PM
This would be an even bigger waste of time since it would take longer to do
April 6th, 2011 at 3:19 PM
It would need to be more than just looking at Pro-Bowls. I think starters would be the best way of looking at it
ACC is going to come out looking like a good conference or something if you do this
April 6th, 2011 at 3:19 PM
im not sure that’d be a good idea…of course conferences that put out more players are going to have more busts. i think it might tend to skew the results towards the smaller conferences.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:19 PM
Meh, Curtis Martin was the star for those teams. I preferred Ray Crittendon, anyway. I realize QBs get the pub so it’s a cop-out to say he’s the face of the team, but I do think it’s beyond that. If he was injured a lot, quit on the team ever, was sulky, I think I wouldn’t feel that way. I think he deserves it, both because of and independent from his position.
/I know that makes no sense
April 6th, 2011 at 3:20 PM
Well you’ll have every Sunday afternoon free this fall, Butters, so get on it.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:21 PM
Why would it be a waste of time? It’s not like you’d be forced to read it.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:22 PM
You’d have to do it with a per-capita number or something like that. As in, for every 50 players drafted or something like that. I’m sure my stats skills are off there, but I would be Lisk would be able to handle it.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:25 PM
Texas is up there with VY, Simms and Colt.
/Assumes Colt will be a bust since he was drafted by the Browns
//Tim Couch’d
///Brady Quinn’d
////Charlie Frye’d
April 6th, 2011 at 3:26 PM
Just assign points for ProBowls or years as a starter, arrange by school and throw an AnOVa at them. Could at least tell you what to look at for schools that have high or low % success.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:26 PM
assumes you shack up with your cousin in the biblical sense because you’re from PA.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:29 PM
Any GM who factors in the school the player attended should be relieved of his duties right quick
April 6th, 2011 at 3:30 PM
I wouldn’t do this so GMs would have a cheat sheet. It would be for fans of teams to further their shit-talking.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:31 PM
While that made me laugh, it is absolutely false. I am from CA.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:33 PM
I think it would be a fair way to test the hypothesis that where you went to college affects how good a pro you will be. And if an ANOVA showed a significant difference, then why wouldn’t a GM use it. If you know that historically, a player from USC has twice probability of becoming a star as a ND player, and you have two players that are equal otherwise, you’d be an idiot not to use all information at your disposal.
The problem is that most sports statistics and theories are hypothesis driven tests, so they don’t always produce a legitimate answer.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:33 PM
god damnit, i need to start writing down which steeler fans are from where.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:34 PM
The 1970′s Steroid REO Bandwagon had stops all across the US.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:35 PM
Texas is up there with VY, Simms and Colt.
Who though Simms would be good?
April 6th, 2011 at 3:36 PM
Then get ready for the Boise State and Western Michigan contingents since they had two starters each for the Super Bowl champions
No it wouldn’t, doesn’t factor in who’s coaching at any given school at the time and what the team/coaching situation is like for the NFL team the player gets drafted by…the previous player has no bearing on the performance of the next one
April 6th, 2011 at 3:36 PM
No love for Steve Spagnuolo? Spags had the rams on quite the turnaround last year
April 6th, 2011 at 3:36 PM
You mean besides Mack Brown? Well he was 3rd round draft pick, so lets go with Tampa Bay.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:37 PM
32 teams in the NFL, no?
April 6th, 2011 at 3:38 PM
Phil is coming after you now, Odyssey… what did you DO!?!?
April 6th, 2011 at 3:39 PM
Well he was 3rd round draft pick, so lets go with Tampa Bay.
Well that’s the Buccaneers’ problem. No one (outside of Mack) who watched him at Texas thought he would be even an average QB in the NFL.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:40 PM
Sorry, Butters, but confounding variables don’t necessarily invalidate the hypothesis, they weaken the p-value.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:40 PM
Phil is coming after you now, Odyssey… what did you DO!?!?
After all the anger his son caused me at UT, Phil owes me.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:41 PM
+1
April 6th, 2011 at 3:42 PM
I know, but determining a player’s NFL worth based on where they went to school needs a logical reason to be studied in the first place or else you could just be stumbling upon coincidences that only look like legitimate results
April 6th, 2011 at 3:43 PM
It would give ACC fans something, anything to be proud of.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:44 PM
Surprise, surprise…Vikings and Colts fans taking shots at Sean Payton.
/Watches this
/And then this
Good times.
April 6th, 2011 at 3:45 PM
True, and indeed coaching at those schools may be the factor. Then I’d say initially look at schools where a coach has been there 10 years or something like that. Or alternatively, compare schools with 1 coach (presumably a good one if he is there long term) versus schools that alternate coaches.
You also have to hope that the draft looks beyond talent disparities at a school. (assuming it does, if Joe Flacco got drafted from Delaware)
April 6th, 2011 at 3:46 PM
So what you are saying Butters is that you are NOT in favor of just randomly looking at as many associations as possible for a significant p-value? You Bonferroni people really make this stuff hard
/Bonferroni (sp?) is a multiple testings correction for anyone who didn’t know
//probably has a good point
April 6th, 2011 at 3:51 PM
Depends on the study, just that to try to say that a player from Wisconsin or wherever is any more or less likely to succeed based on previous players is silly…take Gabe Carimi, in the past 10 years the Badgers produced two All-American tackles who were first round picks: Chris McIntosh and Joe Thomas, one a colossal bust and the other one of the best in the league, the factors for their pro performance lie outside of the college they attended
April 6th, 2011 at 3:54 PM
So do Saints fans, rightfully so. At least they should once in a while. Lets run a reverse when we’re trying to kill the clock, they’ll never see it coming!
/wank motion
April 7th, 2011 at 1:19 AM
this was just fantastic. God bless you for hiring Lisk TBL.
April 7th, 2011 at 5:41 PM
Black & Yellow everything. Nigga, Mike Tomlin!