Bracketosophy: The Georgetown & BYU Dilemmas
The regular season is over, and the big conferences get the tournament week underway, starting with the Big East first round tomorrow. You’ll hear lots of talk about the bubble, and it will be inappropriately and overbroadly used for any team with a winning record from a major conference this week. In actuality, we are probably talking about roughly six spots definitely in doubt, depending on how much the at-large pool shrinks, with about 10-12 teams in the running as we enter this week.
I’m going to have a more detailed analysis tomorrow of the conference tournaments, and who realistically has a chance to improve their at-large chances.
What to do with BYU and Georgetown?
BYU lost their chance at a #1 seed when Davies was suspended and they lost at home to New Mexico soundly. They are clearly going to have a #2 seed profile based on the entire season, but the committee will likely bump them down another notch so they are not the highest seeded team in their side of the bracket, to protect against them being significantly worse. I think they drop into the #3 or #4 range, but can salvage that if they show they can beat San Diego State yet again, in which case you can flip those two.
I didn’t move Georgetown down last week because we needed to see the effect of Chris Wright’s injury, and find out the news on how long. The effect has not been good at all. Georgetown has looked terrible, and even though Georgetown says he will probably be back, the committee won’t trust that unless he plays before selection. My best guess is they put them at around a #6, so they are not one of the top 4 in a regional, but are in a position to make a run if Wright does come back.
What effect will some of these mid-major finals have on other at-larges?
Gonzaga and St. Mary’s will meet for the WCC title tonight, and I’m projecting winner is in at #12 seed, with Gonzaga potentially moving up to an #11 with a win, while the loser is out of luck for an at-large. I’m certain that St. Mary’s needs to win; Gonzaga would be in the last four at-large discussion with a loss, but I’ve got them out in that event.
We’ve got two situations tonight that could also disrupt the at-larges. Virginia Commonwealth (vs. Old Dominion) and UW-Milwaukee (vs. Butler) are not getting in as at-larges, but I’m projecting that their opponents are already in the field, even with a loss. To account for this in today’s seed projection, I put VCU/UWM in on one slot on the #13 line in the event one gets the auto bid. If both get the victories and the auto bids, that tightens it up even more. If only one wins tonight, then the projection holds, and if neither do, someone like Alabama or Memphis gets back in the field as the extra at-large. That is until someone else besides Utah State, or Xavier/Temple win their conference tourneys.
Who is realistically on the bubble, and who could fall out?
I think any team I have listed below at #8 seed or better is solidly in, regardless of what happens in the conference tournament, with the results only affecting seeding. I think the #9′s and #10′s are in barring a bad loss that would cause their profile to drop, and most are probably still in anyway. Right now, the last at-larges I have in, are in order: UAB, Tennessee, Michigan State, Virginia Tech, Georgia, Colorado, Richmond, Boston College, and Cleveland State (though realistically, Cleveland State will get squeezed by the shrinking bubble and the results some bubble teams will put up in the major tournaments). Colorado is a team that I improved my projection when I did a cross-comparison of all teams that might be considered “bubble” by the talking heads. I think their wins over Texas, Kansas State (twice) and Missouri separate them right now and get them in. The teams I have just on the outside, but can play their way in this week and surpass other teams who lose, are Memphis, Alabama, Clemson, Southern Cal and Southern Miss.
Here are my projections entering conference tournament week. I’ll do one final projection on Sunday morning after the smoke has largely cleared, where I will actually try to pick the regions. I figured it would have been a pointless exercise up until now to try to pick specific matchups.
#1 Seeds: Ohio State*, Kansas*, Pittsburgh*, Duke
#2 Seeds: Notre Dame, Purdue, San Diego State, North Carolina*
#3 Seeds: Texas, BYU, Florida, Syracuse
#4 Seeds: Kentucky, Louisville, Wisconsin, West Virginia
#5 Seeds: Connecticut, St. John’s, Arizona, Kansas State
#6 Seeds: Vanderbilt, Georgetown, UNLV, Cincinnati
#7 Seeds: Villanova, Xavier*, Texas A&M, Utah State*
#8 Seeds: Temple, George Mason, UCLA, Old Dominion
#9 Seeds: Missouri, Illinois, Florida State, Marquette
#10 Seeds: Michigan, UAB*, Washington, Butler*
#11 Seeds: Tennessee, Michigan State, Virginia Tech, Belmont*
#12 Seeds: Gonzaga or St. Mary’s*, Georgia, Colorado+, Richmond+, Boston College+, Cleveland State+
#13 Seeds: Harvard*, Virginia Commonwealth/UW-Milwaukee*, Charleston*, Oakland*
#14 Seeds: Long Island*, Iona*, Bucknell*, Long Beach State*
#15 Seeds: Indiana State*, Morehead State*, Kent State*, Montana*
#16 Seeds: Boston University*, Florida Atlantic*+, UNC-Asheville*+, Hampton*+, McNeese State*+, Texas Southern*+
teams who have clinched auto bids are highlighted with links; + = first four game participant, * = projected auto bid recipient
[photo via Getty]

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70 Responses to “Bracketosophy: The Georgetown & BYU Dilemmas”
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March 7th, 2011 at 4:02 PM
P-I-T-T LETS GO PITT!
March 7th, 2011 at 4:02 PM
Purdue should have dropped at least to a 5 seed after their debacle in front of all 5,789 people at Carver Hawkeye Arena on Saturday.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:03 PM
How is MSU still an 11 seed? College basketball sucks worse than normal this year.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:04 PM
Yet another team that fell victim to the mighty Hawkeyes.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:06 PM
How does Duke still get a #1 seed by losing the ACC tournament to UNC? (which you indicate would be the case by giving UNC the *)
March 7th, 2011 at 4:07 PM
Unless UNC wins the the ACC Tourney, I have a hard time seeing them as a #2. And I think Purdue losing to Iowa may have seriously hurt their chances as a #2 seed as well. But if both BYU and SD St. falter in their conference tourney, it’s not unlikely.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:08 PM
I can’t believe you didn’t site the Kenyon Martin 2000 leg break. I know it is a little different since Cincy was easily the favorite that year but it kind of set a precedent for dropping teams to lower seeds because of missing players.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:08 PM
The * means Lisk is picking them to win the ACC Tourney
March 7th, 2011 at 4:11 PM
Ok, that makes sense then. But then I agree with you that Duke would drop to a #2 seed with maybe Notre Dame claiming a #1.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:11 PM
For starters, one campus needs to boink more, the other needs to wear less J. Crew.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:12 PM
+1
March 7th, 2011 at 4:12 PM
You have steadfastly hung on to the Cleveland State dream, Senor Lisk.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:15 PM
it seems like people are really underestimating how much these play-in games are going to fuck with bracket pools.
People are going to have like 36 hours to fill out and turn in brackets.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:15 PM
UCONN as a #5 and Nova as a #7 seems too high right now. But I have no idea who I’d move up a line. Maybe UCLA (to a 7) and Xavier (to a 5).
March 7th, 2011 at 4:16 PM
Unless you have them getting to the Big Ten Tourny final…no.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:17 PM
Not really… it really only affects 2 first round games. 2 of the play in games are 16 seeds. The other 2 are a 12 seed and 11 seed play-in game. So essentially you only have 36 hours to pick those 2 games.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:18 PM
Can someone please tell me why Duke deserves a #1 seed?
March 7th, 2011 at 4:18 PM
Needs more PSU.
/dreams big
March 7th, 2011 at 4:19 PM
Two nits to pick, first the Horizon final isn’t until Tuesday and unless Joe Lunardi lied to me the other play-in game is for an 11-seed but I suppose just take the two best 12-seeds and move then up to that line
March 7th, 2011 at 4:19 PM
Actually the very first time the committee *admitted* they engaged in this type of activity was in 1991. Keith “Mister” Jennings got hurt in the Southern Conference tournament, and was deemed unlikely to play in the NCAA tourney. ETSU was ranked in the top 20, and the committee came right out and said that the Bucs would have likely been a 5 or 6 seed with Jennings. Instead, they dropped them to a 10 seed.
Jennings ended up playing, but they lost to Iowa.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:20 PM
Its going to mess with the people RUNNING the pools more than the participants. I always ignored the play-in game in the past, but its impossible to do when 12 seeds are involved.
I’ve got to collect money, send invitations and make sure everyone has completed their brackets in less than two days. I had a bitch of a time getting everything in order when we had four days.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:21 PM
Once again you bring the years of knowledge Jay V. I’m willing to bet that is the last time ETSU will be ranked in the top 20, which I’m sure will upset Kenny Chesney.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:22 PM
The at-large play-in games are not set in stone for any seeds…it could be for 2 11s, for 2 12s, etc. It all depends on where the last at-large teams would have been seeded in the absence of those games.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:23 PM
I’m retiring from running a pool this year because of this stupid new setup. I don’t feel like rushing out emails at 7pm on sunday and making sure people have money for it on Tuesday by noon.
BTW, PatPhish at our site will have a money pool.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:23 PM
Replace them with someone else. The trick is finding a team that is worthy.
Purdue had an argument until losing to Iowa. UNC was terrible for 2 months before playing better late and winning the ACC. Notre Dame does have possibilities if they win the Big East. BYU’s are shot for obvious reasons.
I’d say that Carolina has the best chance of any to dethrone them. They’d need to win the ACC in order to do so. ND has a good shot, but would also likely need to win the meatgrinding Big East tourney.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:24 PM
Keith Jennings was responsible for getting Les Robinson the NC State job, and I’m sure NC State fans are grateful. Or not.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:24 PM
Ah, was not aware, every mock bracket seems to have one #12 and one #11 game…thanks
March 7th, 2011 at 4:26 PM
Can we talk about how ridiculous it is that Carolina rushed the floor on Saturday? I hate Duke, but that was some amateur kiddie shit right there.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:27 PM
How does Duke still get a #1 seed by losing the ACC tournament to UNC? (which you indicate would be the case by giving UNC the *)
You guys keep me on my toes. I assign it to a team, but that doesn’t necessarily mean I am absolutely predicting one over the other. I would favor UNC slightly over Duke in a rematch. I generally just assign it to the top seeded team. In that case I think I pit it on UNC since they are the top seed in tourney. Those asterisks are for accounting purposes so I can track the number of remaining at larges as I go along.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:27 PM
Why not just wait until after Tuesday’s games? That’s what I’m doing with my pool. We won’t pick winners for those games.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:28 PM
Winning the league championship warrants this
March 7th, 2011 at 4:29 PM
Did tOSU do it yesterday?
March 7th, 2011 at 4:29 PM
It’s drunken college kids having a good time. I don’t bash on court storming.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:31 PM
Normally I don’t either Mantis but this was #13 vs #4. I don’t care that the Heels have struggled for a good 4 years against the Devils. You storm when you’re unranked and beat a top 10 team.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:31 PM
Didn’t stick around for the finish so I don’t know, but they had the title won before the team took the floor and didn’t beat their arch rival to clinch so there’s a difference
March 7th, 2011 at 4:32 PM
Here was the official word from the NCAA on how the First Four are slotted:
“The teams selected for these games will be like teams,” Guerrero said. “We felt if we were going to expand the field it would create better drama for the tournament if the First Four was much more exciting. They could all be on the 10 line or the 12 line or the 11 line. We won’t know until the seeding takes place and the principles and procedures are used and the teams are slotted appropriately.”
March 7th, 2011 at 4:32 PM
Two nits to pick, first the Horizon final isn’t until Tuesday and unless Joe Lunardi lied to me the other play-in game is for an 11-seed but I suppose just take the two best 12-seeds and move then up to that line
Its the last 4 teams in as at larges, regardless of seed. Could be two going to the 12 line, one to the 11, and one to the 12, etc
March 7th, 2011 at 4:32 PM
Carolina was ranked… so was Wisconsin when they beat OSU. Both fans stormed the court
March 7th, 2011 at 4:33 PM
Unless San Diego State beats BYU in the MWC tourney, there is no way they should get a higer seed than the Jimmers.
Michigan State does not belong in the tourney this year. They have done nothing to earn a bid.
If the Irish win the BE tourney, give them a #1 seed over an ACC team. the ACC doesn’t deserve to have a team get a top seed this year. I know the committee has stated how conference ranking does not affect their selection process but I call bullshit on that. Give me Notre Dame or BYU if they win their respective conference tournaments.
If Syracuse happens to win the big east tourney, they’ll get a 2 seed for sure.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:37 PM
I wouldn’t have a big problem if Duke wins the tourney and beats UNC in the process. IF Notre Dame gets to the final and loses a close one to Pitt, they should at least be in the discussion for a #1. But in any event, it’s probably going to be Duke and ND as #1/#2 in the same region.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:37 PM
UNC is gayer than a bag of dicks.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:38 PM
If I am running a pool, I think you ignore the first four, and just tell people to pick the matchup on Thursday. So if BC plays Alabama in a first four game, the person would pick BC/ALA in the next round if they thought they would win, and get credit regardless of whether it was BC or Alabama
March 7th, 2011 at 4:39 PM
If it makes you feel better, both ESPN and Yahoo aren’t giving points for the First Four games just the 64 teams.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:39 PM
I agree with this line of thinking.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:40 PM
Not as soon as the game ended. The students came onto the floor for the trophy presentation about 10 minutes after the game ended. I would call that a flooding of the floor, rather than rushing the floor based on the lack of speed in which it was done.
The committee needs to get #1 seeds locked and loaded early (mid-Saturday) so that they can continue to fill out the brackets. With that in mind, I would think that either UNC or Duke have a 1 almost locked up, barring shocking upsets on Friday.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:40 PM
I expect that is the philosophy that 90% of the pools will employ.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:40 PM
/hands clasped in anger
March 7th, 2011 at 4:41 PM
How about CBS? Anyone know their rule for the 1st 4?
March 7th, 2011 at 4:41 PM
Does anybody still do manual pools anymore? Tell them to join the 21st century and use the damn internet.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:42 PM
Agreed. But, wow, is that messed up. For years, people have made a living predicting the right 5/12 upsets, of which some may now be play-in games. Especially with match-ups, some of those games may differ 3-4 points on the line against the 5/6/7 seed.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:42 PM
The problem isn’t NCAA fans, it’s losing the casual women/other fans in the office who don’t participate and piss everyone off by picking a perfect Final Four based on uniform color. The (not so) secret of the Superbowl isn’t the football, it’s the gambling. Same thing for the NCAA. I don’t think that secretary is going to get you that pool back on Monday night.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:43 PM
You’d be surprised…
March 7th, 2011 at 4:43 PM
something cool i heard today….last time a towwn had the NHL and NBA VPs was LA with a Laker and Gretzky. Chicago, toews and rose, this year, maybe next, maybe after that. both really young on good-to-great teams
March 7th, 2011 at 4:46 PM
At our office, we hang them up – it’s actually AWESOME to see them all hanging up and taking the red markers and crossing off the wrong guesses.
But I also run an online pool with other friends/family
March 7th, 2011 at 4:47 PM
i have fond memories of tearing out the fridge bracket from a news paper to making my picks against my dad.
I’ll always do the manual when i do picks.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:47 PM
I think it’s the same as the other two. Somebody needs to start a CBI pool.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:48 PM
Want some good ratings for the First Four? Make Michigan State go to Dayton and win a spot into the field of 64.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:48 PM
I stormed when PSU beat #23 Illinois. I’m not ashamed.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:49 PM
fuck wisconsin.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:53 PM
We have to let the conference tournaments play out before we can really figure any of this out.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:54 PM
What is it with you and bags of dicks today?
March 7th, 2011 at 4:54 PM
RIP “No Great Teams” 11/20/10-3/06/11
March 7th, 2011 at 4:54 PM
Want some good ratings for the First Four? Make Michigan State go to Dayton and win a spot into the field of 64.
I like this. Believe me, I don’t want to put them in, but projecting where I think the committee will go. When I sized them up vs other at large candidates in this range by things like record vs top 50. Where MSU right now is ahead of many others is relative lack of bad losses, with Iowa being really the only one. Others on the bubble have 4-5 like that. Now, lose in the first round, and the lack of bad losses thing goes bye bye
March 7th, 2011 at 4:54 PM
Must be a Louie CK fan.
March 7th, 2011 at 4:56 PM
You are what you eat
March 7th, 2011 at 4:58 PM
What a horrendous explanation. The tournament is all about “drama?” How about a tournament that is based on rewarding merit? College football’s format is exponentially better at doing that.
March 7th, 2011 at 5:00 PM
OT:
Gregg Zaun retires.
/pours out can of dip juice.
March 7th, 2011 at 5:00 PM
Lisk,
I agree with you on Belmont’s seeding. They are really good. The conference may suck but it’s still tough to consistently dominate your conference opponents by double digits. I can see them making it to the Sweet 16 (as long as they don’t have to beat Syracuse to do so. I am scared of that matchup if it happens)
March 7th, 2011 at 5:03 PM
ms, (here i go again) i covered the class a team for the orioles when zaun started. he was a treat. loved the smiths
March 7th, 2011 at 5:13 PM
Sound advice, Lisk.
I’m still annoyed that I have to explain this to everyone in my pool. There’s bound to be a dumbass that doesn’t get it.